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> 3) all of them are desperately looking forward to going into the office again for any sort of time. This basically means that they did not modify their life

by lstodd 6y ago

> 3) all of them are desperately looking forward to going into the office again for any sort of time. This basically means that they did not modify their lifestyle for remote work. Purging office bullshit from your life requires some changes in lifestyle, no question about it. The workplace has to be established, distractions (much less than what is in the office, but still) have to be managed. Social needs have to be satisfied sy some other means. Still, work from anywhere (not home, mind you, and please do not confuse the two) is much better.

Cookingboy 6y ago
>This basically means that they did not modify their lifestyle for remote work. I really can't understand how one can be this shallow minded. Maybe the life style required to make remote work effective is not the desirable lifestyle for everyone? Maybe people value different things in life? Or maybe some people actually enjoy the place of their work and the physical presence of their coworkers? >Purging office bullshit For a lot of people offices offers a lot more benefits other than bullshit. Maybe your experience with office work came from a place with super toxic work culture? It sure sounds like it from how bitter you sound and I can understand how that contributed to your bias. >Still, work from anywhere (not home, mind you, and please do not confuse the two) is much better. For you, and for the type of work you do, maybe. But blanket statements like that is just silly.
- lstodd 6y ago
  What I say is that _if_ they would have changed their lifestyle _then_ they would not have craved the office experience. There is nothing shallow about this observation. If they chose not to it's fine. They just missed a different and, in my opinion, a better experience. Their choice. I cannot in good faith come up with a type of work that genuinely requires being in an office. Not on a workfloor, not in a lab, not in a conference room - an office. Please enlighten me. Social aspects of offices are overrated. Less formal association is better if only because no one is forced into them.
  - Cookingboy 6y ago
    >What I say is that _if_ they would have changed their lifestyle _then_ they would not have craved the office experience. I can say the same thing about WFH. If you have made the lifestyle adjustment then you wouldn't crave to be working remotely either. Btw I don't know what kind of lifestyle adjust you were thinking about that can magically change someone's personality or family situation. >If they chose not to it's fine. They just missed a different and, in my opinion, a better experience. Their choice. Exactly, it is your opinion, but not a universal fact. >I cannot in good faith come up with a type of work that genuinely requires being in an office. Just like how you prefer WFH even when your job doesn't require you to work from home, a lot of people can prefer to work at an office even though it's not required. >Social aspects of offices are overrated. Less formal association is better if only because no one is forced into them. For you, maybe. I find my social interaction at office to be neither overrated nor forced.
    - saurik 6y ago
      > family situation If you have a family, and you are trying to escape them to go to an office or be alone in transit for hours commuting every day (which is simply time lost from your life), something might be wrong with your relationships and you should spend some time fixing that (but like, yeah: if you are essentially feeling trapped or something because you hate your family, I guess it makes sense to do anything you can to avoid them :/).
      - take_a_breath 6y ago
        The discussion on this site has really deteriorated. Lots of people have kids or they have spouses who also work-from-home. That can make it significantly harder to find the space and environment to work in the home.
    - partyboat1586 6y ago
      Your work buddys today will be gone tomorrow. Most work relationships are shallow and transitory. If that's your thing because you're extroverted then great but a lot of people in tech are more ambiverted or introverted, they value deeper more meaningful relationships. What I see a lot is introverted or ambiverted people tricked into believing their work buddies will call after they leave the company. Tricked into spending time on this shallowness outside of work hours + commute time over spending time with the people in their lives that really matter and will be there for them in darker times. Sure there are a minority of extroverted people who want to be in the office because they want social time all the time, shallow or not. There are also parents who want some time away from home. On the other hand there are introverted people who want to be in the office because that's the only place they know how to get their social need filled anymore even though it's not truly fulfilling.
- annot888888 6y ago
  Why can’t you take the post of others as exactly what you’re saying: that person’s opinion on office life? Why continue engaging in a circular argument about individual preferences if you’re saying it’s subjective? If it’s subjective why must a norm either way be a thing? Isn’t that putting pressure on people that DON’T want office culture? You’re the one making how they phrased a comment a blanket statement. I’m inferring it as their personal preference alone. Detach from semantics and literally perceive it as another person typing text into a box. It’s silly to expect everyone to language in a vague way so as not to appear too opionated based upon your sensibilities.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
meowface 6y ago
Or it means they chose to look for an office job despite knowing remote jobs were available, because they prefer having real-life interaction with co-workers or other physical benefits. I personally far prefer WFH/anywhere. But I've always been very introverted and reclusive. I love the freedom of being able to work alone from any location, but I know many or perhaps most people crave some kind of in-person socializing; even just eating food together. I generally feel better avoiding that, but many feel worse. People should be free to choose whatever makes them happiest and fits their lifestyle best. Everyone's different, and neither option is objectively better. There's a huge range of personalities and dispositions out there. I will always seek remote work and will prefer remote-first/remote-only companies, and many will do the opposite, and we're both making the right choice.
- nogabebop23 6y ago
  >> I love the freedom of being able to work alone from any location is the alternative to working in an office really working alone? Should it not be moving your interactions and realtionships to alternative channels, not eliminating them?
  - meowface 6y ago
    Sure, if someone prefers that. I'm just a hermit, myself, most of the time. I generally prefer being alone. I feel more free and more comfortable in my own skin. If I crave social contact, I message a friend online, or rarely, call them. If I don't crave it, then I don't.
raverbashing 6y ago
> The workplace has to be established, distractions (much less than what is in the office, but still) have to be managed. Social needs have to be satisfied sy some other means. > Still, work from anywhere And this is the contradiction I find hard to manage. Not saying it's impossible, more in the "not sure how to do it" Good equipment is important. A nice desk is important. If you're hopping over AirBnbs, it's hard to carry all your stuff with you and have a good desktop experience wherever you go. Working outside (from a balcony) is usually not great. Screens are not great on sunlight, then there's rain, wind, etc. And concentration suffers a bit It looks a bit complicated at first glance.
- lstodd 6y ago
  Well, obviously couchsurfing doesn't mesh well with a polished and lovely dedicated workspace. That's not the point. The point is that remote work allows you to carve out that lovely workplace just about anywhere as opposed to being forced to some arbitrary and thus by definition suboptimal location. I just rent houses in nice places by a sea. Mediterranean usually, but also Goa and Caribbean and whatnot. I think the shortest strech was two months or so. Median is about a year or two. At these time scales moving 30kg or so of equipment isn't much of a problem. A desk and a chair - now that I prefer to DIY, desk from some local wood stock, chair - take a nice leather auto seat from some local auto salvage shop, mount it on an office chair's base. Done in an evening, costs almost nothing, much superior to every overpriced office chair, usually given away when I move out.
nogabebop23 6y ago
>> This basically means that they did not modify their lifestyle for remote work. Ah yes, the "if it's not working you're doing it wrong rsponse". See also: Agile Methodology Ironincally these types of back-forths are far more common in remote, async conversations than face-to-face.

by lstodd 6y ago

Cookingboy 6y ago

>This basically means that they did not modify their lifestyle for remote work. I really can't understand how one can be this shallow minded. Maybe the life style required to make remote work effective is not the desirable lifestyle for everyone? Maybe people value different things in life? Or maybe some people actually enjoy the place of their work and the physical presence of their coworkers? >Purging office bullshit For a lot of people offices offers a lot more benefits other than bullshit. Maybe your experience with office work came from a place with super toxic work culture? It sure sounds like it from how bitter you sound and I can understand how that contributed to your bias. >Still, work from anywhere (not home, mind you, and please do not confuse the two) is much better. For you, and for the type of work you do, maybe. But blanket statements like that is just silly.

lstodd 6y ago
What I say is that _if_ they would have changed their lifestyle _then_ they would not have craved the office experience. There is nothing shallow about this observation. If they chose not to it's fine. They just missed a different and, in my opinion, a better experience. Their choice. I cannot in good faith come up with a type of work that genuinely requires being in an office. Not on a workfloor, not in a lab, not in a conference room - an office. Please enlighten me. Social aspects of offices are overrated. Less formal association is better if only because no one is forced into them.
- Cookingboy 6y ago
  >What I say is that _if_ they would have changed their lifestyle _then_ they would not have craved the office experience. I can say the same thing about WFH. If you have made the lifestyle adjustment then you wouldn't crave to be working remotely either. Btw I don't know what kind of lifestyle adjust you were thinking about that can magically change someone's personality or family situation. >If they chose not to it's fine. They just missed a different and, in my opinion, a better experience. Their choice. Exactly, it is your opinion, but not a universal fact. >I cannot in good faith come up with a type of work that genuinely requires being in an office. Just like how you prefer WFH even when your job doesn't require you to work from home, a lot of people can prefer to work at an office even though it's not required. >Social aspects of offices are overrated. Less formal association is better if only because no one is forced into them. For you, maybe. I find my social interaction at office to be neither overrated nor forced.
  - saurik 6y ago
    > family situation If you have a family, and you are trying to escape them to go to an office or be alone in transit for hours commuting every day (which is simply time lost from your life), something might be wrong with your relationships and you should spend some time fixing that (but like, yeah: if you are essentially feeling trapped or something because you hate your family, I guess it makes sense to do anything you can to avoid them :/).
    - take_a_breath 6y ago
      The discussion on this site has really deteriorated. Lots of people have kids or they have spouses who also work-from-home. That can make it significantly harder to find the space and environment to work in the home.
  - partyboat1586 6y ago
    Your work buddys today will be gone tomorrow. Most work relationships are shallow and transitory. If that's your thing because you're extroverted then great but a lot of people in tech are more ambiverted or introverted, they value deeper more meaningful relationships. What I see a lot is introverted or ambiverted people tricked into believing their work buddies will call after they leave the company. Tricked into spending time on this shallowness outside of work hours + commute time over spending time with the people in their lives that really matter and will be there for them in darker times. Sure there are a minority of extroverted people who want to be in the office because they want social time all the time, shallow or not. There are also parents who want some time away from home. On the other hand there are introverted people who want to be in the office because that's the only place they know how to get their social need filled anymore even though it's not truly fulfilling.
annot888888 6y ago
Why can’t you take the post of others as exactly what you’re saying: that person’s opinion on office life? Why continue engaging in a circular argument about individual preferences if you’re saying it’s subjective? If it’s subjective why must a norm either way be a thing? Isn’t that putting pressure on people that DON’T want office culture? You’re the one making how they phrased a comment a blanket statement. I’m inferring it as their personal preference alone. Detach from semantics and literally perceive it as another person typing text into a box. It’s silly to expect everyone to language in a vague way so as not to appear too opionated based upon your sensibilities.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

meowface 6y ago

Or it means they chose to look for an office job despite knowing remote jobs were available, because they prefer having real-life interaction with co-workers or other physical benefits. I personally far prefer WFH/anywhere. But I've always been very introverted and reclusive. I love the freedom of being able to work alone from any location, but I know many or perhaps most people crave some kind of in-person socializing; even just eating food together. I generally feel better avoiding that, but many feel worse. People should be free to choose whatever makes them happiest and fits their lifestyle best. Everyone's different, and neither option is objectively better. There's a huge range of personalities and dispositions out there. I will always seek remote work and will prefer remote-first/remote-only companies, and many will do the opposite, and we're both making the right choice.

nogabebop23 6y ago
>> I love the freedom of being able to work alone from any location is the alternative to working in an office really working alone? Should it not be moving your interactions and realtionships to alternative channels, not eliminating them?
- meowface 6y ago
  Sure, if someone prefers that. I'm just a hermit, myself, most of the time. I generally prefer being alone. I feel more free and more comfortable in my own skin. If I crave social contact, I message a friend online, or rarely, call them. If I don't crave it, then I don't.

raverbashing 6y ago

> The workplace has to be established, distractions (much less than what is in the office, but still) have to be managed. Social needs have to be satisfied sy some other means. > Still, work from anywhere And this is the contradiction I find hard to manage. Not saying it's impossible, more in the "not sure how to do it" Good equipment is important. A nice desk is important. If you're hopping over AirBnbs, it's hard to carry all your stuff with you and have a good desktop experience wherever you go. Working outside (from a balcony) is usually not great. Screens are not great on sunlight, then there's rain, wind, etc. And concentration suffers a bit It looks a bit complicated at first glance.

lstodd 6y ago
Well, obviously couchsurfing doesn't mesh well with a polished and lovely dedicated workspace. That's not the point. The point is that remote work allows you to carve out that lovely workplace just about anywhere as opposed to being forced to some arbitrary and thus by definition suboptimal location. I just rent houses in nice places by a sea. Mediterranean usually, but also Goa and Caribbean and whatnot. I think the shortest strech was two months or so. Median is about a year or two. At these time scales moving 30kg or so of equipment isn't much of a problem. A desk and a chair - now that I prefer to DIY, desk from some local wood stock, chair - take a nice leather auto seat from some local auto salvage shop, mount it on an office chair's base. Done in an evening, costs almost nothing, much superior to every overpriced office chair, usually given away when I move out.

nogabebop23 6y ago

>> This basically means that they did not modify their lifestyle for remote work. Ah yes, the "if it's not working you're doing it wrong rsponse". See also: Agile Methodology Ironincally these types of back-forths are far more common in remote, async conversations than face-to-face.