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I have been working remote by choice for years. You don't have to stay at home, you just need internet access. This means you have the freedom to work from anyw

I have been working remote by choice for years. You don't have to stay at home, you just need internet access. This means you have the freedom to work from anywhere on the globe as long as you can access the web. This is a pretty straightforward advantage of the internet. Some jobs have always been "remote". For example, writers still type their manuscripts from anywhere and mail them to editors. However, only some jobs work like this. When I did service or blue collar work I always had to be on the site to physically work the capital. As for "career ambition", you can make plenty of money or a modest income from remote jobs. Beyond jobs, you can easily own an online business or some other digital capital through the same infrastructure. There is more to life and to work than a high salary. Greed is not a virtue. You don't have to sell your soul and most of the waking hours of your life to commute to an office, deal with the attached bullshit, and integrate yourself into the corporate machine. Instead, you have the freedom to actually live your life. Be with you family, friends, pursue your passions, even something as simple as being able access nature or travel freely. Whatever living means to you beyond working. From the outside looking in, the mirage of SV corporate culture seems really fake and hollow. I do not want a hip fancy office full of zany perks and a weird cult. I understand the power balance as a worker. In any job, I want to put in my time and hard work, earn an honest living, and then be free to live as a real human being.

Cookingboy 6y ago
>As for "career ambition", you can make plenty of money or a modest income from remote jobs. Beyond jobs, you can easily own an online business or some other digital capital through the same infrastructure. There is more to life and to work than a high salary. Greed is not a virtue. >You don't have to sell your soul and most of the waking hours of your life to commute to an office, deal with the attached bullshit, and integrate yourself into the corporate machine. I'm sorry but that came across as both condescending and judgmental. I know plenty of people chose the life they have here because they want to, not because they have to sell their soul or what not. There is a lot more perks from having a fulfilling job other than making a big paycheck, it ranges from working closely with amazing people to tackling challenging and fun problems. I know for sure the reason I go to work these days isn't because of money, since I'm past the point where I care too much about it. Finally there is absolutely nothing wrong with pursuing financial success. Having desire to "enjoy nature" and having desire to "have money" are both greed, just in different forms. I definitely do not consider myself morally superior just because I enjoy hiking... >From the outside looking in, the mirage of SV corporate culture seems really fake and hollow. I do not want a hip fancy office full of zany perks and a weird cult. I've been both inside and outside of SV (worked in Texas, Bay Area, and now in Seattle), and I have to say your understanding of SV culture is extremely superficial, likely augmented by the cherry-picking examples and sensationalized media portrayal.
- rainyMammoth 6y ago
  your comment is dismissive. I have been in Silicon Valley for 5+ years and I agree with his assessment. Culture here is fake and hollow. A lot of hypocrisy. I have been swallowed by the corporate machine and endured the bullshit commute, bullshit office and bullshit tasks that made me busy the whole day without making me really rpoductive. Now that I'm working from home, I'm finally realizing what I missed out on. My quality of life is levels higher than it used to be and I'm way more productive. This pandemic is an awakening for me. I will now refuse to go back to the office more than maybe one day a week and I'm ready to change job to do so. I would bet that 90%+ of people got swallowed into the corporate machine without thinking too much simply about it because it is the easy and convenient thing to do. I was also saying that I was "fulfilled" with my job and that my goal was not to make money. Going remote is not the norm and therefore it takes a bit of courage to jump into it.
  - Cookingboy 6y ago
    >I have been in Silicon Valley for 5+ years and I agree with his assessment. Culture here is fake and hollow. A lot of hypocrisy. I've been in SV for more than twice as long as you have and have worked for companies ranging from YC startups to FAANG, I'll say using a blanket statement to describe the culture of SV is pretty silly. Are there fakery, hollowness and hypocrisy? Absolutely. But there is also so much more to it.
sverhagen 6y ago
> I do not want a hip fancy office full of zany perks and a weird cult. Notice taken. Good for you (not sarcastic). This is why you "have been working remote by choice for years". But as the OP said: > If I wanted to stay home forever I'd have just taken a remote consulting job a long time ago ...and he didn't. Neither did I. In the past I have worked remotely for about a year, it wasn't great (admitted that company wasn't set up for it). I am doing it now, and I'm miserable about it. So, OP's point seems not that something is inherently wrong or bad with either mode of working, rather that people who used to be going to the office may not necessarily be happy, or interested, to become remote workers. (Not even because it works well for you.) I did a nothing little survey during our past team retrospective, and from a dozen of folks 1) most of them want more days working from home than pre-pandemic, 2) most of them would then want more work time in the office than from home, and 3) all of them are desperately looking forward to going into the office again for any sort of time.
- lstodd 6y ago
  > 3) all of them are desperately looking forward to going into the office again for any sort of time. This basically means that they did not modify their lifestyle for remote work. Purging office bullshit from your life requires some changes in lifestyle, no question about it. The workplace has to be established, distractions (much less than what is in the office, but still) have to be managed. Social needs have to be satisfied sy some other means. Still, work from anywhere (not home, mind you, and please do not confuse the two) is much better.
  - Cookingboy 6y ago
    >This basically means that they did not modify their lifestyle for remote work. I really can't understand how one can be this shallow minded. Maybe the life style required to make remote work effective is not the desirable lifestyle for everyone? Maybe people value different things in life? Or maybe some people actually enjoy the place of their work and the physical presence of their coworkers? >Purging office bullshit For a lot of people offices offers a lot more benefits other than bullshit. Maybe your experience with office work came from a place with super toxic work culture? It sure sounds like it from how bitter you sound and I can understand how that contributed to your bias. >Still, work from anywhere (not home, mind you, and please do not confuse the two) is much better. For you, and for the type of work you do, maybe. But blanket statements like that is just silly.
GordonS 6y ago
> You don't have to stay at home, you just need internet access. This means you have the freedom to work from anywhere on the globe as long as you can access the web I've been working from home for several years, but to be truely productive I need a separate working space with a good desk, good chair and multiple large monitors. On occasion I've worked from an airport or a cafe, but the noise, seating position, table height, having to work on a small laptop screen etc just don't work for me. I would imagine this was the case for most people, and the image on sitting on a beach sipping pina coladas while making bank is an oversold pipe dream.
- riffraff 6y ago
  I've also worked remotely for several years and while I work from my laptop I would still agree that working from a random location is not ideal. Some cafes are ok, many airports are not, and anybody who ever tried to work in the sun knows how bad that can be :)
- nogabebop23 6y ago
  plus, you know, a tiny little teeny part of the population might want to buy a house, start a family or make location-specific commitments that last more than 6 months.
cjrp 6y ago
> You don't have to stay at home, you just need internet access. This means you have the freedom to work from anywhere on the globe as long as you can access the web. This sounds great, unless you have a mortgage on a house which needs paying regardless of whether you're living there, and children in school who can't be moved all the time. Although I'll admit that since my employer is looking at 100% remote, it opens the door to moving to a nicer/cheaper house outside of the office-commutable bubble. Perhaps a compromise is using shared office space closer to home (short commute, separation of home/work life, social interaction while you're making a cup of tea).
- eloisant 6y ago
  Kids have tons of vacations, much more than the typical office worker. So you can travel for a month or 2 during their summer vacations in what would be like vacations for your kids and "working from a different place" for you. That's also really convenient if you have family in a far away country, to be able to work from there a much longer time that you could have taken vacations.
  - cjrp 6y ago
    So you take the kids on vacation, and then work all day?
    - paulryanrogers 6y ago
      No, you work regular hours in transit or on site. Then enjoy the evenings and weekends with them in a new place. It's quite nice if you can swing it. (Kids not too young and non-working family to help.)
      - nogabebop23 6y ago
        what do your kids do while moomy or daddy needs quiet for several hours do focus on work? >> Then enjoy the evenings and weekends with them in a new place So pay all the costs and negatives of being away from home and get something similar to what you already have? No thanks.
globular-toast 6y ago
> This means you have the freedom to work from anywhere on the globe as long as you can access the web. I think this is what people are missing. If you have to go to work then the location of your work is one of the strongest factors in choosing where to live. For me, that means being no more than 30 minutes away from work by bicycle or public transport (I own a car but it's a luxury, not a necessity). If I could live anywhere then for a start I'd be somewhere where housing costs much less. I'd be somewhere near the kind of countryside that I enjoy like the Lake District, rather than the Fens which has some nice qualities but is mostly boring.

Cookingboy 6y ago

>As for "career ambition", you can make plenty of money or a modest income from remote jobs. Beyond jobs, you can easily own an online business or some other digital capital through the same infrastructure. There is more to life and to work than a high salary. Greed is not a virtue. >You don't have to sell your soul and most of the waking hours of your life to commute to an office, deal with the attached bullshit, and integrate yourself into the corporate machine. I'm sorry but that came across as both condescending and judgmental. I know plenty of people chose the life they have here because they want to, not because they have to sell their soul or what not. There is a lot more perks from having a fulfilling job other than making a big paycheck, it ranges from working closely with amazing people to tackling challenging and fun problems. I know for sure the reason I go to work these days isn't because of money, since I'm past the point where I care too much about it. Finally there is absolutely nothing wrong with pursuing financial success. Having desire to "enjoy nature" and having desire to "have money" are both greed, just in different forms. I definitely do not consider myself morally superior just because I enjoy hiking... >From the outside looking in, the mirage of SV corporate culture seems really fake and hollow. I do not want a hip fancy office full of zany perks and a weird cult. I've been both inside and outside of SV (worked in Texas, Bay Area, and now in Seattle), and I have to say your understanding of SV culture is extremely superficial, likely augmented by the cherry-picking examples and sensationalized media portrayal.

rainyMammoth 6y ago
your comment is dismissive. I have been in Silicon Valley for 5+ years and I agree with his assessment. Culture here is fake and hollow. A lot of hypocrisy. I have been swallowed by the corporate machine and endured the bullshit commute, bullshit office and bullshit tasks that made me busy the whole day without making me really rpoductive. Now that I'm working from home, I'm finally realizing what I missed out on. My quality of life is levels higher than it used to be and I'm way more productive. This pandemic is an awakening for me. I will now refuse to go back to the office more than maybe one day a week and I'm ready to change job to do so. I would bet that 90%+ of people got swallowed into the corporate machine without thinking too much simply about it because it is the easy and convenient thing to do. I was also saying that I was "fulfilled" with my job and that my goal was not to make money. Going remote is not the norm and therefore it takes a bit of courage to jump into it.
- Cookingboy 6y ago
  >I have been in Silicon Valley for 5+ years and I agree with his assessment. Culture here is fake and hollow. A lot of hypocrisy. I've been in SV for more than twice as long as you have and have worked for companies ranging from YC startups to FAANG, I'll say using a blanket statement to describe the culture of SV is pretty silly. Are there fakery, hollowness and hypocrisy? Absolutely. But there is also so much more to it.

sverhagen 6y ago

> I do not want a hip fancy office full of zany perks and a weird cult. Notice taken. Good for you (not sarcastic). This is why you "have been working remote by choice for years". But as the OP said: > If I wanted to stay home forever I'd have just taken a remote consulting job a long time ago ...and he didn't. Neither did I. In the past I have worked remotely for about a year, it wasn't great (admitted that company wasn't set up for it). I am doing it now, and I'm miserable about it. So, OP's point seems not that something is inherently wrong or bad with either mode of working, rather that people who used to be going to the office may not necessarily be happy, or interested, to become remote workers. (Not even because it works well for you.) I did a nothing little survey during our past team retrospective, and from a dozen of folks 1) most of them want more days working from home than pre-pandemic, 2) most of them would then want more work time in the office than from home, and 3) all of them are desperately looking forward to going into the office again for any sort of time.

lstodd 6y ago
> 3) all of them are desperately looking forward to going into the office again for any sort of time. This basically means that they did not modify their lifestyle for remote work. Purging office bullshit from your life requires some changes in lifestyle, no question about it. The workplace has to be established, distractions (much less than what is in the office, but still) have to be managed. Social needs have to be satisfied sy some other means. Still, work from anywhere (not home, mind you, and please do not confuse the two) is much better.
- Cookingboy 6y ago
  >This basically means that they did not modify their lifestyle for remote work. I really can't understand how one can be this shallow minded. Maybe the life style required to make remote work effective is not the desirable lifestyle for everyone? Maybe people value different things in life? Or maybe some people actually enjoy the place of their work and the physical presence of their coworkers? >Purging office bullshit For a lot of people offices offers a lot more benefits other than bullshit. Maybe your experience with office work came from a place with super toxic work culture? It sure sounds like it from how bitter you sound and I can understand how that contributed to your bias. >Still, work from anywhere (not home, mind you, and please do not confuse the two) is much better. For you, and for the type of work you do, maybe. But blanket statements like that is just silly.

GordonS 6y ago

> You don't have to stay at home, you just need internet access. This means you have the freedom to work from anywhere on the globe as long as you can access the web I've been working from home for several years, but to be truely productive I need a separate working space with a good desk, good chair and multiple large monitors. On occasion I've worked from an airport or a cafe, but the noise, seating position, table height, having to work on a small laptop screen etc just don't work for me. I would imagine this was the case for most people, and the image on sitting on a beach sipping pina coladas while making bank is an oversold pipe dream.

riffraff 6y ago
I've also worked remotely for several years and while I work from my laptop I would still agree that working from a random location is not ideal. Some cafes are ok, many airports are not, and anybody who ever tried to work in the sun knows how bad that can be :)
nogabebop23 6y ago
plus, you know, a tiny little teeny part of the population might want to buy a house, start a family or make location-specific commitments that last more than 6 months.

cjrp 6y ago

> You don't have to stay at home, you just need internet access. This means you have the freedom to work from anywhere on the globe as long as you can access the web. This sounds great, unless you have a mortgage on a house which needs paying regardless of whether you're living there, and children in school who can't be moved all the time. Although I'll admit that since my employer is looking at 100% remote, it opens the door to moving to a nicer/cheaper house outside of the office-commutable bubble. Perhaps a compromise is using shared office space closer to home (short commute, separation of home/work life, social interaction while you're making a cup of tea).

eloisant 6y ago
Kids have tons of vacations, much more than the typical office worker. So you can travel for a month or 2 during their summer vacations in what would be like vacations for your kids and "working from a different place" for you. That's also really convenient if you have family in a far away country, to be able to work from there a much longer time that you could have taken vacations.
- cjrp 6y ago
  So you take the kids on vacation, and then work all day?
  - paulryanrogers 6y ago
    No, you work regular hours in transit or on site. Then enjoy the evenings and weekends with them in a new place. It's quite nice if you can swing it. (Kids not too young and non-working family to help.)
    - nogabebop23 6y ago
      what do your kids do while moomy or daddy needs quiet for several hours do focus on work? >> Then enjoy the evenings and weekends with them in a new place So pay all the costs and negatives of being away from home and get something similar to what you already have? No thanks.

globular-toast 6y ago

> This means you have the freedom to work from anywhere on the globe as long as you can access the web. I think this is what people are missing. If you have to go to work then the location of your work is one of the strongest factors in choosing where to live. For me, that means being no more than 30 minutes away from work by bicycle or public transport (I own a car but it's a luxury, not a necessity). If I could live anywhere then for a start I'd be somewhere where housing costs much less. I'd be somewhere near the kind of countryside that I enjoy like the Lake District, rather than the Fens which has some nice qualities but is mostly boring.