8 ms·

Pretty sure all you need are high-level State Department contacts, not necessarily "a very particular set of skills", so to speak.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> all you need are high-level State Department contacts That's a terrible strategy for getting out of the clutch's of a foreign country's law enforcement. Let alone an ally's.
- psychometry 6y ago
  Why? Who do you think negotiates things like prisoner exchanges?
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    You don't negotiate. That leaves fate to someone else whose interests most likely don't align with your own. You make your own luck.
  - zerkten 6y ago
    It's not as simple as you suggest. Hearing someone is imprisoned, or kidnapped, is probably one of the last things that a local consulate or embassy wants to deal with. Unless there is broader geopolitical concern, there is little reason to think that these folks will do much beyond the minimum to keep you alive. There is a good chance that the local diplomatics aren't too sympathetic either because know what you should have known about the country before you got yourself into trouble. If they think there is some injustice, then it depends on how much it'll play out in the media. The government posture at home will also play a part. You could see the Trump administration playing hardball in a lot of scenarios to demonstrate how tough they are, but then they undermine the general ability of the State Department to operate, so lower visibility problems struggle for attention and resources. The Obama administration provided more resources, but probably wasn't as hawkish.
  - ac29 6y ago
    State Departments are powerful, but politically complicated and slow. Cash in the right hands goes a long way in many places, and is much quicker - valuable when time isn't your ally.
unhomedcoder 6y ago
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/International/emails-show-isis-appeared-eager-release-kayla-mueller/story%3fid=41525685 https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Internationa.... the State Dept would be the last entity on Earth who i would approach for help in a foreign hostage situation. just ask Kayla Mueller's parents. after CIA gave ISIS over $1 BILLION worth of weapons, the Obama State Dept threatened to charge Kayla's parents with Material Support of Terrorism if they paid the ransom to ISIS to free their daughter. ISIS wanted to free her for money. instead, she was brutally executed. honk. honk.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- XMPPwocky 6y ago
  While there's hardly a shortage of things to criticize the State Department for, it's hard to argue that making exceptions to the "don't give money to ISIS" policy for ransoms is a good idea. That just encourages more kidnappings.
  - karatestomp 6y ago
    On the one hand, sure. On the other, if you're kidnapped for ransom by foreign terrorists or guerrillas (or even just hardened criminals without a political agenda) and no money or consideration at all is allowed to change hands, your odds of survival just went from "not ideal, but OK" to "terrible". Telling people they can't do that is basically telling them their loved one's already dead unless the murderous kidnappers respond well to "pretty please" and agree to take on the risk of a process to return the prisoner without even a token reward.
  - unhomedcoder 6y ago
    that contradiction was my point. the US govt already covertly gave ISIS over a billion dollars--the splashiest way to provide Material Support of ISIS. meanwhile, giving ISIS $100,000 in ransom for a hostage is just too much. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/middleeast/cia-syria-rebel-arm-train-trump.amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/worl... if you doubt my claim that CIA gave ISIS over a billion dollars, that link proves it--they admit it themselves. honk honk is a meme that means "irony." as in the noise of a clown's nose being squeezed while someone tells you something that is clearly self-contradictory and requires you to ignore the evidence you see in front of you. i don't know what these quick-to-politicize-speech downvoters mean when they unpack a rather innocuous meme. memes are the Lingua Franca of the Internet. it doesnt matter where they originated, or who may have used them because after they are recycled a billion times all over forums, they lose whatever original meaning they had and become common slang. i don't care about being down voted and i don't care about pleasing tattletale censor Karen's.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

> all you need are high-level State Department contacts That's a terrible strategy for getting out of the clutch's of a foreign country's law enforcement. Let alone an ally's.

psychometry 6y ago
Why? Who do you think negotiates things like prisoner exchanges?
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  You don't negotiate. That leaves fate to someone else whose interests most likely don't align with your own. You make your own luck.
- zerkten 6y ago
  It's not as simple as you suggest. Hearing someone is imprisoned, or kidnapped, is probably one of the last things that a local consulate or embassy wants to deal with. Unless there is broader geopolitical concern, there is little reason to think that these folks will do much beyond the minimum to keep you alive. There is a good chance that the local diplomatics aren't too sympathetic either because know what you should have known about the country before you got yourself into trouble. If they think there is some injustice, then it depends on how much it'll play out in the media. The government posture at home will also play a part. You could see the Trump administration playing hardball in a lot of scenarios to demonstrate how tough they are, but then they undermine the general ability of the State Department to operate, so lower visibility problems struggle for attention and resources. The Obama administration provided more resources, but probably wasn't as hawkish.
- ac29 6y ago
  State Departments are powerful, but politically complicated and slow. Cash in the right hands goes a long way in many places, and is much quicker - valuable when time isn't your ally.

unhomedcoder 6y ago

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/International/emails-show-isis-appeared-eager-release-kayla-mueller/story%3fid=41525685 https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Internationa.... the State Dept would be the last entity on Earth who i would approach for help in a foreign hostage situation. just ask Kayla Mueller's parents. after CIA gave ISIS over $1 BILLION worth of weapons, the Obama State Dept threatened to charge Kayla's parents with Material Support of Terrorism if they paid the ransom to ISIS to free their daughter. ISIS wanted to free her for money. instead, she was brutally executed. honk. honk.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
XMPPwocky 6y ago
While there's hardly a shortage of things to criticize the State Department for, it's hard to argue that making exceptions to the "don't give money to ISIS" policy for ransoms is a good idea. That just encourages more kidnappings.
- karatestomp 6y ago
  On the one hand, sure. On the other, if you're kidnapped for ransom by foreign terrorists or guerrillas (or even just hardened criminals without a political agenda) and no money or consideration at all is allowed to change hands, your odds of survival just went from "not ideal, but OK" to "terrible". Telling people they can't do that is basically telling them their loved one's already dead unless the murderous kidnappers respond well to "pretty please" and agree to take on the risk of a process to return the prisoner without even a token reward.
- unhomedcoder 6y ago
  that contradiction was my point. the US govt already covertly gave ISIS over a billion dollars--the splashiest way to provide Material Support of ISIS. meanwhile, giving ISIS $100,000 in ransom for a hostage is just too much. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/middleeast/cia-syria-rebel-arm-train-trump.amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/worl... if you doubt my claim that CIA gave ISIS over a billion dollars, that link proves it--they admit it themselves. honk honk is a meme that means "irony." as in the noise of a clown's nose being squeezed while someone tells you something that is clearly self-contradictory and requires you to ignore the evidence you see in front of you. i don't know what these quick-to-politicize-speech downvoters mean when they unpack a rather innocuous meme. memes are the Lingua Franca of the Internet. it doesnt matter where they originated, or who may have used them because after they are recycled a billion times all over forums, they lose whatever original meaning they had and become common slang. i don't care about being down voted and i don't care about pleasing tattletale censor Karen's.