4 ms·

I don't know about the OP, but I live in Los Angeles so when looking for remote opportunities I need a salary comparable to local onsite jobs. I've got a daught

I don't know about the OP, but I live in Los Angeles so when looking for remote opportunities I need a salary comparable to local onsite jobs. I've got a daughter in school here and my wife has a job with 10 years seniority and a pension at 20 years so it isn't realistic to move to Idaho for the cost of living savings. I've been working remote for 5 years and it has limited my choices to companies that pay LA wages. I've talked to coworkers who live on 5 acres in Texas, a mansion in Iowa, or 20 acres in Arkansas and they think I'm crazy but I can be at the beach or Hollywood in 15 minutes and I don't have to deal with snow or rain.

detaro 6y ago
But that's different from what OP asks, since not all remote companies pay the same rate globally.
stephenr 6y ago
I guess maybe it's a factor of the US employment/benefits situation but I don't quite understand this scenario. In Australia (where I grew up) if you leave a company, you don't lose your retirement savings from that time, because they're not controlled by the company. Is that what you're suggesting: that if your wife changes her job, she'll lose the money that's been paid into a retirement fund for her? As for kids: changing schools can be a hassle but I'd hardly consider it a reason not to move to a much more liveable location.
- gbear605 6y ago
  For a lot of jobs in the US, you have a pension where if you retire from the company after X years there (in this case 20 years), then they’ll pay you some fixed sum every month for the rest of your life. There isn’t a “retirement fund for her” that money has been paid into, but rather it’s a single on/off switch. This dates from the 50s-70s when staying at a single company your whole career was the norm. Nowadays, most companies offer a 401k retirement plan that you can take with you, but some older companies or government agencies still offer pensions. As for the kids, I’d say that staying in one school district is a huge plus for them, but it varies depending on the kids and the school district.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > For a lot of jobs in the US, you have a pension where if you retire from the company after X years there (in this case 20 years), then they’ll pay you some fixed sum every month for the rest of your life. Pensions are extremely rare outside of the public sector, and have been for about the length of the average working career.
    - adventured 6y ago
      What do you consider extremely rare? 13% of private sector employees still participate in a pension plan. It does seem very likely a large share of those are older workers and that that percentage will continue to erode over the next 10-20 years. https://www.pensionrights.org/publications/statistic/how-many-american-workers-participate-workplace-retirement-plans https://www.pensionrights.org/publications/statistic/how-man...
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > What do you consider extremely rare? 13% of private sector employees still participate in a pension plan. Down from 18%, ~7 years before, when 39% and growing of those who still had pensions in the private sector had non-traditional pensions that weren't pure specified-benefit plans, but instead were (for the vast majority of non-traditional plans) hybrid cash-balance plans where the actual benefit is determined by investment returns through the point of retirement (basically, a defined contribution plan where the accumulated balance is used to purchase an annuity at retirement.) https://www.epi.org/blog/private-sector-pension-coverage-decline/ https://www.epi.org/blog/private-sector-pension-coverage-dec... IIRC, a big part of the decline being that for many private employers, pensions, especially traditional ones, are legacy plans that haven't been offered to employees for decades, and are only available to employees that have been working with the firm since they were generally available.
- pbk1 6y ago
  The parent is referring to a pension plan, which is generally guaranteed income for life after a certain amount of service. If you leave or are fired prior to the service requirement, you could lose all or part of the pension. Just want to note in the US these are usually offered to public sector workers - e.g. teachers, firemen, police, military, civil servants. I don't know of a private company that still offers pensions. Separately we have retirement savings programs (usually called a 401k) that are offered by private sector employers, often with a match. Employees can invest a percentage of their paycheck in the program, and companies will match that contribution to a certain level to incentivize savings. When you leave the company you can keep the account or roll it somewhere else. Unfortunately these contributions are capped by federal law at no more than $19,500 per year per person. There are tax benefits to the 401k - you can choose to pay tax on the contribution when you make it and pay no income tax on those funds in retirement, or not pay tax now and pay income tax in the future. This is a lot better than investing in a taxable brokerage account, because you get taxed on the income as well as the securities.
  - stephenr 6y ago
    Right. That clarifies things a bit. The only "pension" I've seen in Australia (and apparently UK, as my father's situation implies) is a fairly minimal "pension" payment to all retired citizens, and then huge incentives for people to pay into their own "Super" (short for Superannuation) plan, which is fairly similar to your 401K it seems - but they actively encourage paying more into it. Is the cap on any payment into the 401K or just the employer's contribution? I've not heard of nor experienced anything similar to the 'pension plan' concept you have, and my first job was in State Government, from whence I still have a Super plan... somewhere.
    - adventured 6y ago
      How does Australia handle retirement pay for members of the military?
      - stephenr 6y ago
        I've never been in the military so I don't know from personal experience, but when I had a government job, I just had a Super plan like everyone else.
- byoung2 6y ago
  As for kids: changing schools can be a hassle but I'd hardly consider it a reason not to move to a much more liveable location. I'm not sure how it is in Australia, but the US is very racially/culturally diverse on the coasts (where it is expensive), and more homogeneous in the interior (where it is cheap). My daughter is in a great school with a diverse student body that would be difficult to find in other places.
  - stephenr 6y ago
    The interior of Australia is a desert mate.
AnimalMuppet 6y ago
> ... and I don't have to deal with snow or rain. But the smog, the wildfires, and the traffic are, um, not ideal. I admit that the beach in Iowa is somewhat lacking...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- byoung2 6y ago
  Traffic is a nonissue when you work from home. Wildfires are getting bad but the hope is that they can be mitigated over time, unlike snow every winter.
  - stephenr 6y ago
    Hope in one hand and shit in the other, see which fills up first. If you think extreme weather events (droughts, the ensuing wild fires, hurricanes, blizzards, etc) are going to reduce any time soon, you need to pay more attention.

detaro 6y ago

But that's different from what OP asks, since not all remote companies pay the same rate globally.

stephenr 6y ago

I guess maybe it's a factor of the US employment/benefits situation but I don't quite understand this scenario. In Australia (where I grew up) if you leave a company, you don't lose your retirement savings from that time, because they're not controlled by the company. Is that what you're suggesting: that if your wife changes her job, she'll lose the money that's been paid into a retirement fund for her? As for kids: changing schools can be a hassle but I'd hardly consider it a reason not to move to a much more liveable location.

gbear605 6y ago
For a lot of jobs in the US, you have a pension where if you retire from the company after X years there (in this case 20 years), then they’ll pay you some fixed sum every month for the rest of your life. There isn’t a “retirement fund for her” that money has been paid into, but rather it’s a single on/off switch. This dates from the 50s-70s when staying at a single company your whole career was the norm. Nowadays, most companies offer a 401k retirement plan that you can take with you, but some older companies or government agencies still offer pensions. As for the kids, I’d say that staying in one school district is a huge plus for them, but it varies depending on the kids and the school district.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > For a lot of jobs in the US, you have a pension where if you retire from the company after X years there (in this case 20 years), then they’ll pay you some fixed sum every month for the rest of your life. Pensions are extremely rare outside of the public sector, and have been for about the length of the average working career.
  - adventured 6y ago
    What do you consider extremely rare? 13% of private sector employees still participate in a pension plan. It does seem very likely a large share of those are older workers and that that percentage will continue to erode over the next 10-20 years. https://www.pensionrights.org/publications/statistic/how-many-american-workers-participate-workplace-retirement-plans https://www.pensionrights.org/publications/statistic/how-man...
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > What do you consider extremely rare? 13% of private sector employees still participate in a pension plan. Down from 18%, ~7 years before, when 39% and growing of those who still had pensions in the private sector had non-traditional pensions that weren't pure specified-benefit plans, but instead were (for the vast majority of non-traditional plans) hybrid cash-balance plans where the actual benefit is determined by investment returns through the point of retirement (basically, a defined contribution plan where the accumulated balance is used to purchase an annuity at retirement.) https://www.epi.org/blog/private-sector-pension-coverage-decline/ https://www.epi.org/blog/private-sector-pension-coverage-dec... IIRC, a big part of the decline being that for many private employers, pensions, especially traditional ones, are legacy plans that haven't been offered to employees for decades, and are only available to employees that have been working with the firm since they were generally available.
pbk1 6y ago
The parent is referring to a pension plan, which is generally guaranteed income for life after a certain amount of service. If you leave or are fired prior to the service requirement, you could lose all or part of the pension. Just want to note in the US these are usually offered to public sector workers - e.g. teachers, firemen, police, military, civil servants. I don't know of a private company that still offers pensions. Separately we have retirement savings programs (usually called a 401k) that are offered by private sector employers, often with a match. Employees can invest a percentage of their paycheck in the program, and companies will match that contribution to a certain level to incentivize savings. When you leave the company you can keep the account or roll it somewhere else. Unfortunately these contributions are capped by federal law at no more than $19,500 per year per person. There are tax benefits to the 401k - you can choose to pay tax on the contribution when you make it and pay no income tax on those funds in retirement, or not pay tax now and pay income tax in the future. This is a lot better than investing in a taxable brokerage account, because you get taxed on the income as well as the securities.
- stephenr 6y ago
  Right. That clarifies things a bit. The only "pension" I've seen in Australia (and apparently UK, as my father's situation implies) is a fairly minimal "pension" payment to all retired citizens, and then huge incentives for people to pay into their own "Super" (short for Superannuation) plan, which is fairly similar to your 401K it seems - but they actively encourage paying more into it. Is the cap on any payment into the 401K or just the employer's contribution? I've not heard of nor experienced anything similar to the 'pension plan' concept you have, and my first job was in State Government, from whence I still have a Super plan... somewhere.
  - adventured 6y ago
    How does Australia handle retirement pay for members of the military?
    - stephenr 6y ago
      I've never been in the military so I don't know from personal experience, but when I had a government job, I just had a Super plan like everyone else.
byoung2 6y ago
As for kids: changing schools can be a hassle but I'd hardly consider it a reason not to move to a much more liveable location. I'm not sure how it is in Australia, but the US is very racially/culturally diverse on the coasts (where it is expensive), and more homogeneous in the interior (where it is cheap). My daughter is in a great school with a diverse student body that would be difficult to find in other places.
- stephenr 6y ago
  The interior of Australia is a desert mate.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago

> ... and I don't have to deal with snow or rain. But the smog, the wildfires, and the traffic are, um, not ideal. I admit that the beach in Iowa is somewhat lacking...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
byoung2 6y ago
Traffic is a nonissue when you work from home. Wildfires are getting bad but the hope is that they can be mitigated over time, unlike snow every winter.
- stephenr 6y ago
  Hope in one hand and shit in the other, see which fills up first. If you think extreme weather events (droughts, the ensuing wild fires, hurricanes, blizzards, etc) are going to reduce any time soon, you need to pay more attention.