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Most people agree with Rogan that transgender women who have only recently started on female hormones should not hide that status from biologically female oppon

Most people agree with Rogan that transgender women who have only recently started on female hormones should not hide that status from biologically female opponents in mixed martial arts. It isn't feminist for women's bodies to be brutalized by men's bodies.

2019-nCoV 6y ago
The risk has never been that Rogan is holding reprehensible views. It's that those masquerading as progressive have a penchant for misconstruing in the most creative ways: https://twitter.com/sadydoyle/status/1220513471995031554 https://twitter.com/sadydoyle/status/1220513471995031554
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  I mean, this isn't quite a misconstrual. The author of this tweet just comes from a bizarre subculture where "puberty blockers for kids" is not only good policy but self-evidently right. I'm sure it's legitimately challenging for her to understand what Rogan is saying - such a large inferential gap is hard to cross.
slg 6y ago
You are not giving the full extent of his comments on transgender people. He is against women who transitioned as adults from competing against other women. He is also against people taking steps as a child to make transitioning easier as an adult such as taking completely reversible hormone blockers to delay puberty until they are old enough to transition. So he leaves no possible path for a transgender woman to compete in sports. It seems like he wants transgender people out of sports completely. In my opinion, the whole discussion of transgender people in sports is a proxy war for their role in society as a whole. Transgender people have been allowed to compete in the Olympics and most American sports (at least at the college level) for roughly a decade if not longer. It is still extremely rare for a transgender woman to dominate other woman in any of these sporting events. It just doesn't seem like a possibility worth focusing on when compared to the downside of further marginalizing the transgender community at large by singling them out for harsher treatment.
- free_rms 6y ago
  > In my opinion, the whole discussion of transgender people in sports is a proxy war for their role in society as a whole. There are a lot of people out there who care way more about sports than they do about the role of transgender people in society.
  - slg 6y ago
    When you talk to most cisgender people, two of the biggest transgender issues they mention are sports and bathrooms. Meanwhile when transgender people are allowed to choose what sport to compete in or what bathroom to choose, there have been very few problems from them. It seems to me that lots of people just fundamentally believe that transgender people are wrong, gross, or whatever derogatory term you want to use and they work backwards from there looking for excuses before eventually landing on sports and bathrooms.
    - free_rms 6y ago
      Have you ever been an athlete in a serious way? Honest question. If people who've competed or deeply cared about sports seem to all get hung up on this, maybe they're seeing something you're not? Your two issues are issues because, even without any prejudice, there are physical differences that we have to handle and it's not easy to figure out how to be fair to all parties. In the case we're talking about, for example, the trans women fractured a woman's skull. Broke her skull. Was the skull the problem here? Should it have been less breakable to match the rhetoric?
      - slg 6y ago
        Yes, I have been heavily involved in high level athletics. MMA is a violent sport. There are risks to anyone participating in it. If you are seriously worried about protecting athletes, there should be more widespread changes than just eliminating the handful of transgender athletes because I guarantee the majority of injuries occur in matches between two cisgender athletes.
      - 6y ago
dang 6y ago
> It isn't feminist for women's bodies to be brutalized by men's bodies. If you broach the topic in this way—jumping straight to an inflammatory statement on one of the most divisive of all topics—you're guaranteeing a flamewar. That's vandalism, nay, trolling. It breaks the site guidelines, damages this place badly, and you've done it more than once before. You also committed to us that you wouldn't to do it again. Would you please stick to that and not actually do it again? Your comment would be fine, from a site guidelines point of view, without that last sentence. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- jessaustin 6y ago
  I apologize. I thought that statement was inoffensive, but clearly I was wrong. I would edit it out if I could. Fortunately it seems not to have ignited the flamewar you anticipated, since none of the 36 replies other than your own have referenced it. The main complaint seems to be that I didn't portray the full variety of statements that Rogan has made on this issue. I had listened to a recent podcast in which he claimed to make his definitive and comprehensive statement about this, but perhaps I shouldn't have taken his word for it. I'll have to think about this more than I have.
  - dang 6y ago
    They don't have to reference it in order to react to it or otherwise be affected. I appreciate your reply though.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- lol_u_cuck 6y ago
  Facts are inflammatory!
  - 6y ago
lawnchair_larry 6y ago
How the fuck is this comment flagged? This is not controversial at all. To think otherwise is truly absurd.
- afiori 6y ago
  It is flagged as flamebait, not specifically controversial. Flamebait is about tone and formulation, not necessarily facts

2019-nCoV 6y ago

The risk has never been that Rogan is holding reprehensible views. It's that those masquerading as progressive have a penchant for misconstruing in the most creative ways: https://twitter.com/sadydoyle/status/1220513471995031554 https://twitter.com/sadydoyle/status/1220513471995031554

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
I mean, this isn't quite a misconstrual. The author of this tweet just comes from a bizarre subculture where "puberty blockers for kids" is not only good policy but self-evidently right. I'm sure it's legitimately challenging for her to understand what Rogan is saying - such a large inferential gap is hard to cross.

slg 6y ago

You are not giving the full extent of his comments on transgender people. He is against women who transitioned as adults from competing against other women. He is also against people taking steps as a child to make transitioning easier as an adult such as taking completely reversible hormone blockers to delay puberty until they are old enough to transition. So he leaves no possible path for a transgender woman to compete in sports. It seems like he wants transgender people out of sports completely. In my opinion, the whole discussion of transgender people in sports is a proxy war for their role in society as a whole. Transgender people have been allowed to compete in the Olympics and most American sports (at least at the college level) for roughly a decade if not longer. It is still extremely rare for a transgender woman to dominate other woman in any of these sporting events. It just doesn't seem like a possibility worth focusing on when compared to the downside of further marginalizing the transgender community at large by singling them out for harsher treatment.

free_rms 6y ago
> In my opinion, the whole discussion of transgender people in sports is a proxy war for their role in society as a whole. There are a lot of people out there who care way more about sports than they do about the role of transgender people in society.
- slg 6y ago
  When you talk to most cisgender people, two of the biggest transgender issues they mention are sports and bathrooms. Meanwhile when transgender people are allowed to choose what sport to compete in or what bathroom to choose, there have been very few problems from them. It seems to me that lots of people just fundamentally believe that transgender people are wrong, gross, or whatever derogatory term you want to use and they work backwards from there looking for excuses before eventually landing on sports and bathrooms.
  - free_rms 6y ago
    Have you ever been an athlete in a serious way? Honest question. If people who've competed or deeply cared about sports seem to all get hung up on this, maybe they're seeing something you're not? Your two issues are issues because, even without any prejudice, there are physical differences that we have to handle and it's not easy to figure out how to be fair to all parties. In the case we're talking about, for example, the trans women fractured a woman's skull. Broke her skull. Was the skull the problem here? Should it have been less breakable to match the rhetoric?
    - slg 6y ago
      Yes, I have been heavily involved in high level athletics. MMA is a violent sport. There are risks to anyone participating in it. If you are seriously worried about protecting athletes, there should be more widespread changes than just eliminating the handful of transgender athletes because I guarantee the majority of injuries occur in matches between two cisgender athletes.
    - 6y ago

dang 6y ago

> It isn't feminist for women's bodies to be brutalized by men's bodies. If you broach the topic in this way—jumping straight to an inflammatory statement on one of the most divisive of all topics—you're guaranteeing a flamewar. That's vandalism, nay, trolling. It breaks the site guidelines, damages this place badly, and you've done it more than once before. You also committed to us that you wouldn't to do it again. Would you please stick to that and not actually do it again? Your comment would be fine, from a site guidelines point of view, without that last sentence. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jessaustin 6y ago
I apologize. I thought that statement was inoffensive, but clearly I was wrong. I would edit it out if I could. Fortunately it seems not to have ignited the flamewar you anticipated, since none of the 36 replies other than your own have referenced it. The main complaint seems to be that I didn't portray the full variety of statements that Rogan has made on this issue. I had listened to a recent podcast in which he claimed to make his definitive and comprehensive statement about this, but perhaps I shouldn't have taken his word for it. I'll have to think about this more than I have.
- dang 6y ago
  They don't have to reference it in order to react to it or otherwise be affected. I appreciate your reply though.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
lol_u_cuck 6y ago
Facts are inflammatory!
- 6y ago

lawnchair_larry 6y ago

How the fuck is this comment flagged? This is not controversial at all. To think otherwise is truly absurd.

afiori 6y ago
It is flagged as flamebait, not specifically controversial. Flamebait is about tone and formulation, not necessarily facts