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Off topic but I still cannot unsubscribe from NYT online after signing up online. I have to call in during their business hours. I thought CA passed a law prohi

Off topic but I still cannot unsubscribe from NYT online after signing up online. I have to call in during their business hours. I thought CA passed a law prohibiting this dark pattern.

WillSlim95 6y ago
I unsubscribe by changing to a debit card with zero balance.
- gowld 6y ago
  Does this work, avoiding bank fees?
  - baseballdork 6y ago
    I haven't tried to cancel or anything but I pay with a card I created from privacy that has a $5 monthly limit. When the price jumps after the introductory period, it'll just decline.
    - thanksforfish 6y ago
      You just stop paying for things you use?
      - baseballdork 6y ago
        No, it'll decline and alert me so I can go ahead and cancel the subscription. Then I might go subscribe to the LA Times or some other news source.
- GhostVII 6y ago
  I think you can still be held liable for whatever they couldn't charge to your debit card if you do that. Preventing them from charging you doesn't mean you don't owe them money.
  - WillSlim95 6y ago
    No they just canceled my subscription. I live in India though, so maybe banking regulations are different, you can't overdraw in India
- wdb 6y ago
  Wouldn't this quickly become a costly affair?
fastball 6y ago
Bloomberg does the same.
Kique 6y ago
I don't think this is true, on my account (also signed up online) I can go to the below link and click "Cancel Subscription" then choose the Use Account option instead of calling in or using their customer service chat. https://myaccount.nytimes.com/seg/subscription https://myaccount.nytimes.com/seg/subscription
- yonig 6y ago
  I just did the chat option and it put me in a queue to wait for an "Account specialist" that is estimated to take 25 minutes. Other two options were phone call or text. I actually did intend to cancel today so ill see this through. edit: chat took 30 minutes from start to cancel. mostly dead air. when the chat starts they also asked for a phone number (which i never gave, so it wasnt for ID confirmation) but i instead just entered 'NA'
- robbiet480 6y ago
  Just checked and I don't have a Use Account link. Just call, text or chat.
- skrtskrt 6y ago
  I canceled NYT online recently but couldn't do the same for WSJ.
- travisporter 6y ago
  I really looked for a link on mobile website , the iOS app and the desktop website. I subscribed via iOS so maybe it’s a bit complex.
subpixel 6y ago
As much as this sucks, it probably reduces churn a ton. Also - the reason they do that is so they can offer you a radical discount that isn't "published" to keep you from canceling. I did this a few weeks ago and saved more than 50%.
sammycdubs 6y ago
One of the few things I use my Apple Card for is online subscriptions. One click in the app and you change your card number immediately!
- wereHamster 6y ago
  There used to be a service which allowed you to create virtual CC numbers. That way you could create a new number for each service. Just like some people create a new email address when they sign up online.
  - snazz 6y ago
    Privacy.com still exists and does exactly that. Most services that offer free trials (like the $300 Google Cloud Platform credit/trial) don't accept virtual credit card numbers because it would allow someone to use an infinite free trial.
  - tzs 6y ago
    Capital One and Citi let you create virtual CC numbers. Bank of America used to, but they discontinued that feature a few months ago, saying that with electronic wallets such as Apple Pay and similar that do not disclose your card number to the merchant there is no longer a need for virtual CC numbers. I've got a couple Capital One cards and their virtual numbers are quite convenient. They are created from their Eno browser extension. Invoke Eno on the checkout page of a site, and it lets you pick and existing virtual card or lets you create a new one for that site. I use it on Firefox, but recently the Eno extension disappeared from the Firefox extensions store, and they no longer list Firefox as a supported browser (although existing installations continue to work). If this is permanent it will not be as convenient for Firefox users--they will have to use Chrome to create new virtual cards, which they can of course still use in Firefox. On your account pages at C1 you can view your virtual numbers, suspend them, and delete them but you cannot create new ones. That has to be done through the Eno browser extension. I have no idea what Citi's virtual card system is like.
- thanksforfish 6y ago
  Surely changing a card number doesn't communicate your intent to unsubscribe from any service where you have an ongoing subscription. It prevents the bill payment, but doesn't stop the subscription and any costs associated.
jeffkeen 6y ago
Years ago I subscribed online to the physical NYT paper, and eventually after letting papers stack up I wanted to unsubscribe for a while. But after having to speak to a slippery trained retention specialist in order to do so… I instead decided to unsubscribe forever. So yeah, good job NYT. That pattern is something I'd expect from Sirius XM or Lifetime Fitness, and the fact that they did it too was a little surprising.
sequoia 6y ago
Watch out–if you signed up with a CC they take that as consent to re-subscribe you year after year. They did this to me, when I called they said "you authorized re-subscription when you paid by credit card. Paying by credit card automatically auto-renews." Mind you this is not a $20/month renewal but an annual renewal for hundreds of dollars, so it was not small potatoes. I am 100% certain I never checked a box specifically & clearly opting in to auto-renewal. There's absolutely no way I'd do that for a $300+ charge. I had to call and pitch a fit to get them to at least stop sending papers (to my old address, I don't live in the USA any more) and give me a prorated refund. They were completely shady and untrustworthy, I'll never do business with them again.
- TechBro8615 6y ago
  A bit off topic, but this pattern is the worst. It happened to me with Hellosign. I signed up for the free trial and never remembered to cancel. I saw the charge last year and thought “oh well,” then forgot to cancel again this year. I literally did not login even once for a year, but then like clockwork they charged me $140. What annoyed me is that it seemed like they intentionally went radio silent for a year, so as to not remind me I was using their service. I received no marketing emails, no pre-billing email, and no receipt. They just silently charged me $140. To their credit, they refunded me when I complained about this. Personally I think it should be illegal to renew annual subscriptions without some kind of reminder that the bill is coming up, or an opportunity to cancel at some point, especially if you never even used the service. Heck, I might go so far as to say that annual billing should not be allowed.
  - snazz 6y ago
    Some credit card companies and banks will send you proactive reminders that you're about to be charged for an auto-renewal. If I'm purchasing a subscription, one of the advantages of doing so through an in-app purchase on iOS is that you get reminders and receipts from Apple.
  - wastedhours 6y ago
    I think that's what the new SCA regulations in Europe help with - they require confirmation and authorisation even for some recurring subscriptions so auto-renew becomes less of a blind process.
ridv 6y ago
California did [1]. I was a customer of the NYT online a few months after this law went into effect and I also had to call in during business hours which are Eastern Time centric. They try to sell you super hard on staying. Someone else here said this can save you money this way, but the salesman I got came back at me with an offer to stay for the same price I was already paying. Between them not complying with CA law (I'm a resident of CA) and them showing me ads when I pay them, I decided to end my subscription for good. https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/04/californias-new-online-cancellation-law-benefits-many-disgruntled-subscribers-in-other-places-too/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/04/californias-new-online-can...
hedora 6y ago
Call them. Ask to cancel. If the call takes more than 5 minutes, call your credit card company and issue a chargeback, explaining that you attempted to cancel online, and also attempted to contact them. It costs the vendor money when you do this, and if enough people do it, they lose the ability to accept credit cards. The process is usually painless, since the card issuer has a financial incentive to screw over the vendor. Some credit card companies will even block charges from a company moving forward. One of the credit reporting agencies (Experian?) started charging one of my cards without permission. I don’t know how they even got the number, so I did this. The credit card company operator said a double digit percentage of the call center load was blocking that particular credit agency, and did it with no further questions. I have no idea why they weren’t kicked off the processing network for elevated fraud rates.
- travisporter 6y ago
  I ended up chatting with them and cancelling. Initially the wait was 17 min but I got an agent within 1-2 min fortunately and cancelled aftertrying to sell me on the perks. Not too pushy and relatively pleasant. This is a good strategy though in the future. I can show proof I tried to cancel by phone/online to my credit card company.
abawany 6y ago
I've subscribed to NYT using PayPal so I could cancel the pre-approval there to cancel if I needed. However, I have been able to get a hold of them via chat every time I've needed it so I am not super worried.
tomjen3 6y ago
The Economist had the same issue, I wrote an angry email to their support and they fixed it. They did win though, I ended up subscribed for a few months more than I wanted to.
mikestew 6y ago
This is why I only subscribe to publications through iTunes/App Store. One click, and I'm unsubscribed. Not on the Apple store? Then I will not be rewarding your dark pattern. I don't need to read anything that badly.
- p49k 6y ago
  Oftentimes, a subscription purchased through the App Store is 30% more expensive than through other means due to companies passing on the Apple tax to the user.

Off topic but I still cannot unsubscribe from NYT online after signing up online. I have to call in during their business hours. I thought CA passed a law prohibiting this dark pattern.

WillSlim95 6y ago

I unsubscribe by changing to a debit card with zero balance.

gowld 6y ago
Does this work, avoiding bank fees?
- baseballdork 6y ago
  I haven't tried to cancel or anything but I pay with a card I created from privacy that has a $5 monthly limit. When the price jumps after the introductory period, it'll just decline.
  - thanksforfish 6y ago
    You just stop paying for things you use?
    - baseballdork 6y ago
      No, it'll decline and alert me so I can go ahead and cancel the subscription. Then I might go subscribe to the LA Times or some other news source.
GhostVII 6y ago
I think you can still be held liable for whatever they couldn't charge to your debit card if you do that. Preventing them from charging you doesn't mean you don't owe them money.
- WillSlim95 6y ago
  No they just canceled my subscription. I live in India though, so maybe banking regulations are different, you can't overdraw in India
wdb 6y ago
Wouldn't this quickly become a costly affair?

fastball 6y ago

Bloomberg does the same.

Kique 6y ago

I don't think this is true, on my account (also signed up online) I can go to the below link and click "Cancel Subscription" then choose the Use Account option instead of calling in or using their customer service chat. https://myaccount.nytimes.com/seg/subscription https://myaccount.nytimes.com/seg/subscription

yonig 6y ago
I just did the chat option and it put me in a queue to wait for an "Account specialist" that is estimated to take 25 minutes. Other two options were phone call or text. I actually did intend to cancel today so ill see this through. edit: chat took 30 minutes from start to cancel. mostly dead air. when the chat starts they also asked for a phone number (which i never gave, so it wasnt for ID confirmation) but i instead just entered 'NA'
robbiet480 6y ago
Just checked and I don't have a Use Account link. Just call, text or chat.
skrtskrt 6y ago
I canceled NYT online recently but couldn't do the same for WSJ.
travisporter 6y ago
I really looked for a link on mobile website , the iOS app and the desktop website. I subscribed via iOS so maybe it’s a bit complex.

subpixel 6y ago

As much as this sucks, it probably reduces churn a ton. Also - the reason they do that is so they can offer you a radical discount that isn't "published" to keep you from canceling. I did this a few weeks ago and saved more than 50%.

sammycdubs 6y ago

One of the few things I use my Apple Card for is online subscriptions. One click in the app and you change your card number immediately!

wereHamster 6y ago
There used to be a service which allowed you to create virtual CC numbers. That way you could create a new number for each service. Just like some people create a new email address when they sign up online.
- snazz 6y ago
  Privacy.com still exists and does exactly that. Most services that offer free trials (like the $300 Google Cloud Platform credit/trial) don't accept virtual credit card numbers because it would allow someone to use an infinite free trial.
- tzs 6y ago
  Capital One and Citi let you create virtual CC numbers. Bank of America used to, but they discontinued that feature a few months ago, saying that with electronic wallets such as Apple Pay and similar that do not disclose your card number to the merchant there is no longer a need for virtual CC numbers. I've got a couple Capital One cards and their virtual numbers are quite convenient. They are created from their Eno browser extension. Invoke Eno on the checkout page of a site, and it lets you pick and existing virtual card or lets you create a new one for that site. I use it on Firefox, but recently the Eno extension disappeared from the Firefox extensions store, and they no longer list Firefox as a supported browser (although existing installations continue to work). If this is permanent it will not be as convenient for Firefox users--they will have to use Chrome to create new virtual cards, which they can of course still use in Firefox. On your account pages at C1 you can view your virtual numbers, suspend them, and delete them but you cannot create new ones. That has to be done through the Eno browser extension. I have no idea what Citi's virtual card system is like.
thanksforfish 6y ago
Surely changing a card number doesn't communicate your intent to unsubscribe from any service where you have an ongoing subscription. It prevents the bill payment, but doesn't stop the subscription and any costs associated.

jeffkeen 6y ago

Years ago I subscribed online to the physical NYT paper, and eventually after letting papers stack up I wanted to unsubscribe for a while. But after having to speak to a slippery trained retention specialist in order to do so… I instead decided to unsubscribe forever. So yeah, good job NYT. That pattern is something I'd expect from Sirius XM or Lifetime Fitness, and the fact that they did it too was a little surprising.

sequoia 6y ago

Watch out–if you signed up with a CC they take that as consent to re-subscribe you year after year. They did this to me, when I called they said "you authorized re-subscription when you paid by credit card. Paying by credit card automatically auto-renews." Mind you this is not a $20/month renewal but an annual renewal for hundreds of dollars, so it was not small potatoes. I am 100% certain I never checked a box specifically & clearly opting in to auto-renewal. There's absolutely no way I'd do that for a $300+ charge. I had to call and pitch a fit to get them to at least stop sending papers (to my old address, I don't live in the USA any more) and give me a prorated refund. They were completely shady and untrustworthy, I'll never do business with them again.

TechBro8615 6y ago
A bit off topic, but this pattern is the worst. It happened to me with Hellosign. I signed up for the free trial and never remembered to cancel. I saw the charge last year and thought “oh well,” then forgot to cancel again this year. I literally did not login even once for a year, but then like clockwork they charged me $140. What annoyed me is that it seemed like they intentionally went radio silent for a year, so as to not remind me I was using their service. I received no marketing emails, no pre-billing email, and no receipt. They just silently charged me $140. To their credit, they refunded me when I complained about this. Personally I think it should be illegal to renew annual subscriptions without some kind of reminder that the bill is coming up, or an opportunity to cancel at some point, especially if you never even used the service. Heck, I might go so far as to say that annual billing should not be allowed.
- snazz 6y ago
  Some credit card companies and banks will send you proactive reminders that you're about to be charged for an auto-renewal. If I'm purchasing a subscription, one of the advantages of doing so through an in-app purchase on iOS is that you get reminders and receipts from Apple.
- wastedhours 6y ago
  I think that's what the new SCA regulations in Europe help with - they require confirmation and authorisation even for some recurring subscriptions so auto-renew becomes less of a blind process.

ridv 6y ago

California did [1]. I was a customer of the NYT online a few months after this law went into effect and I also had to call in during business hours which are Eastern Time centric. They try to sell you super hard on staying. Someone else here said this can save you money this way, but the salesman I got came back at me with an offer to stay for the same price I was already paying. Between them not complying with CA law (I'm a resident of CA) and them showing me ads when I pay them, I decided to end my subscription for good. https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/04/californias-new-online-cancellation-law-benefits-many-disgruntled-subscribers-in-other-places-too/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/04/californias-new-online-can...

hedora 6y ago

Call them. Ask to cancel. If the call takes more than 5 minutes, call your credit card company and issue a chargeback, explaining that you attempted to cancel online, and also attempted to contact them. It costs the vendor money when you do this, and if enough people do it, they lose the ability to accept credit cards. The process is usually painless, since the card issuer has a financial incentive to screw over the vendor. Some credit card companies will even block charges from a company moving forward. One of the credit reporting agencies (Experian?) started charging one of my cards without permission. I don’t know how they even got the number, so I did this. The credit card company operator said a double digit percentage of the call center load was blocking that particular credit agency, and did it with no further questions. I have no idea why they weren’t kicked off the processing network for elevated fraud rates.

travisporter 6y ago
I ended up chatting with them and cancelling. Initially the wait was 17 min but I got an agent within 1-2 min fortunately and cancelled aftertrying to sell me on the perks. Not too pushy and relatively pleasant. This is a good strategy though in the future. I can show proof I tried to cancel by phone/online to my credit card company.

abawany 6y ago

I've subscribed to NYT using PayPal so I could cancel the pre-approval there to cancel if I needed. However, I have been able to get a hold of them via chat every time I've needed it so I am not super worried.

tomjen3 6y ago

The Economist had the same issue, I wrote an angry email to their support and they fixed it. They did win though, I ended up subscribed for a few months more than I wanted to.

mikestew 6y ago

This is why I only subscribe to publications through iTunes/App Store. One click, and I'm unsubscribed. Not on the Apple store? Then I will not be rewarding your dark pattern. I don't need to read anything that badly.

p49k 6y ago
Oftentimes, a subscription purchased through the App Store is 30% more expensive than through other means due to companies passing on the Apple tax to the user.