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I don't know about that. He's said some incredibly mean and offensive things. It is detrimental IMO. There is basically no way I would want to collaborate with

I don't know about that. He's said some incredibly mean and offensive things. It is detrimental IMO. There is basically no way I would want to collaborate with him. You couldn't pay me to contribute to the Linux kernel, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way. He gets away with it because the world has become very dependent on Linux.

shadowgovt 6y ago
And it isn't just him. His approach normalized that interaction approach in people who work on the Linux kernel and adjacent projects, and creates a whole field of people potential collaborators don't want to interact with. I got put off trying to improve Linux very early on when I tried to get help with a simple configuration issue in IRC and instead got dragged into a tedious debate about whether it's okay to call the OS "Linux" or "GNU/Linux." Ain't nobody got time for that. Not when there is a whole world of other projects one can choose to donate one's time to.
- Daishiman 6y ago
  To be far, the "GNU/Linux" thing is a Stallmanism that is the exact opposite of Linus, who's pretty much the antithesis of pedantry.
zozbot234 6y ago
His thing is being "mean and offensive" to the inner circle of kernel maintainers, not to random contributors. It's all about not being collectively wishy-washy, and making it clear what is expected of that inner circle. Some people might call it a bit unprofessional and be bothered by that kind of style, but many are clearly fine with it.
- LiquidSky 6y ago
  But that's the classic defense for asshole behavior in the workplace (or, in this case, the collaborative space). Are many "clear fine with it", or is it just accepted as what you had to put up with to operate in that space? And, as the center of that space, was Linus's behavior and attitude setting expectations about how people should act if they wanted to participate, and consequently what people just had to deal with as "the culture"? To go back to Jobs, obviously many people worked with him and he had his inner circle. Was everyone fine with him being an asshole, or did they just put up with it because he's the boss and that's what you had to deal with if you wanted to work at Apple?
- mcguire 6y ago
  Would you work for an employer who acted that way?

shadowgovt 6y ago

And it isn't just him. His approach normalized that interaction approach in people who work on the Linux kernel and adjacent projects, and creates a whole field of people potential collaborators don't want to interact with. I got put off trying to improve Linux very early on when I tried to get help with a simple configuration issue in IRC and instead got dragged into a tedious debate about whether it's okay to call the OS "Linux" or "GNU/Linux." Ain't nobody got time for that. Not when there is a whole world of other projects one can choose to donate one's time to.

Daishiman 6y ago
To be far, the "GNU/Linux" thing is a Stallmanism that is the exact opposite of Linus, who's pretty much the antithesis of pedantry.

zozbot234 6y ago

His thing is being "mean and offensive" to the inner circle of kernel maintainers, not to random contributors. It's all about not being collectively wishy-washy, and making it clear what is expected of that inner circle. Some people might call it a bit unprofessional and be bothered by that kind of style, but many are clearly fine with it.

LiquidSky 6y ago
But that's the classic defense for asshole behavior in the workplace (or, in this case, the collaborative space). Are many "clear fine with it", or is it just accepted as what you had to put up with to operate in that space? And, as the center of that space, was Linus's behavior and attitude setting expectations about how people should act if they wanted to participate, and consequently what people just had to deal with as "the culture"? To go back to Jobs, obviously many people worked with him and he had his inner circle. Was everyone fine with him being an asshole, or did they just put up with it because he's the boss and that's what you had to deal with if you wanted to work at Apple?
mcguire 6y ago
Would you work for an employer who acted that way?