6 ms·

For personal use they are a bit overkill, but only if your cheaper tools don't break after 3 years. The professionals I know generally all use a couple expensi

by 2mol 6y ago

For personal use they are a bit overkill, but only if your cheaper tools don't break after 3 years. The professionals I know generally all use a couple expensive tools from Hiltl or Festool etc over time. They can justify a new machine on a single job that pays ~8k, the time saved with the right tool is often already worth it. And of course they are smart enough to know when they can use the "best long-lasting & cheap" tools instead of the high-end equivalents. I'm looking at you Makita PJ7000 which I bought for 150.- vs a Lamello that will be >500.- or a Festool Domino for 1k.

noneeeed 6y ago
"best long-lasting & cheap" is spot on. Often, getting the very best is not worth it, no matter how long they might last. We had a lot of work done on our house a few years back, and every one of tradesmen used Makita. I asked our carpenter if they were really good, and he said no, but they we pretty good, lasted quite well, but didn't cost the earth. I think the ubiquity of Makita also made it easy to swap batteries and chargers between kit, and between people.
- encom 6y ago
  Electrician here: Last place I worked was almost exclusively Makita (and they were big, thousands of employees), and being able to swap chargers and batteries was both a blessing and a curse. I took good care of my batteries (and everything else), and I had to be careful not to end up with some other guys battery that he'd used to drive nails with.
  - meragrin_ 6y ago
    Please tell me that people were not using the batteries as hammers.
    - xnyan 6y ago
      Driving any fastener can put put of wear on batteries fast, the current requirements are high and peaky. Nails are particularity bad because unlike say, driving a screw or bolt you often don't even give they battery a second or two of break time to cool slightly while you line up your bit to the next fastener, just "BAM BAM BAM" down the line of wood as fast as you can until you drain the battery back to nil. This is one of the the best ways to kill li-ion cells fast.
      - ChoGGi 6y ago
        The usual method of driving a nail with a battery isn't by turning on a tool.
        djrogers 6y ago
        By far the safest though, but still very hard on the batteries. https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/XNB02Z https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/XNB02Z
    - windowsworkstoo 6y ago
      lol, pretty standard on site mate, especially during demo - some screws are just a bit too captive, quick whack with your battery (in the impact driver) does the trick.
    - turbinerneiter 6y ago
      It is so common that tool manufacturers have it as a load case in their design.
    - zoomablemind 6y ago
      Think of a soldier to use the butt of his rifle in close quarters. This spares a bullet too. Not sure if savings are comparable in case of the battery, but you get the idea.
    - encom 6y ago
      Some times you need to do a bit of percussive problem solving, and battery powered tools are heavy, so you do what you gotta do.
    - capekwasright 6y ago
      The converse of Maslow's hammer is such a common scenario that Wera actually sells a ratchet designed to be used as a hammer (think mechanic working under a car): https://www-us.wera.de/en/great-tools/koloss/ https://www-us.wera.de/en/great-tools/koloss/
      - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
        They're kind of a dud because the extra bulk on the head gets in the way so often. I have one I never use. The vise grip crescent wrench on the other hand...
      - JshWright 6y ago
        You can also get an adjustable crescent wrench with a hammer on the opposite side of the head. It's known colloquially to viewers of the AvE YouTube channel as the "thumb detecting nut fucker"
    - rainbowzootsuit 6y ago
      Every tool has a hammer end.
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    This is remedied with Bluetooth batteries that only work when paired to the owner's phone.
- jschwartzi 6y ago
  Makita worm-drive saws were nice because they were about half a pound lighter than even the Skilsaw with the magnesium case(HD77). This makes a difference when leaning out over the second floor of a house cutting rafter tails.
  - culturestate 6y ago
    Have you tried the cordless mag 77s? I'm curious to know if going cordless in those situations would make the weight less important, the same way AirPods sort of magically stay in my ear better without a cord tugging on them.
mywacaday 6y ago
I'm currently trying to decide which vendor/battery system to buy into for the long run. Festool/Hilti are too high end for DIY/Hobby. I'm looking at De Walt/Makita and leaning towards Makita.
- windowsworkstoo 6y ago
  Yeh me and and most of the people I work with are on Makita (in Aus). Otherwise Milwaukee is quite popular, especially among the sparkies.
  - tonyarkles 6y ago
    My wife bought a Ridgid drill with a promo kit of four batteries. The chuck eventually wore out, but the local Ridgid repair shop replaced it for us for $30 (would have been free if we’d registered for warranty). Because we had all those batteries, we were sucked into the ecosystem: cordless sawzall, impact driver, etc. They sell “naked” tools (no battery) at a significant discount. Definitely worth looking into, we’ve been exceptionally happy with the kit we’ve slowly been growing. Edit: in Canada. Not sure if they’re the same elsewhere.
- zrobotics 6y ago
  Honestly for hobby use I would definitely recommend ryobi. Reason being, they haven't changed their battery design in absolute ages. So, you can take a old drill that was originally ni-cad and use brand new batteries without an adapter. They have updated battery chemistry, so obviously you need to change chargers when you get new batteries, but at least you don't need to re-buy all your tools as well. They definitely aren't pro-grade, but I've put fairly heavy use on mine over the last 9 years and the only tool that failed was a flashlight. Wore out 3 batteries that I took good care of, but buying $200 in batteries & charger is way better than $1k in batteries+tools. The only real problem is they look cheap, so if you are into showing off then that is a negative. I used Dewalt tools at my last mechanic job, and I honestly didn't think they were better enough to justify the price (2-3x ryobi). I haven't used makita, but the Dewalt drills would only survive 2-3 5 foot falls onto concrete, and the chucks were really crappy. My ryobi drill has survived probably 5 falls of the same type, and is still functional. The only real complaint I have is that the plastic absorbs grease, so if you use them in automotive/machine shop environments they start to look really grungy.
quickthrowman 6y ago
My shop (electrical) uses Makita for the vast majority of power tools, but we have some Hilti hammer drills and Hilti BX3 battery fastener, because they’re worth the money. Particularly the battery powered fastener (BX3), it can shoot a 22 ga nail into steel or concrete quietly which means we can do that work in occupied buildings during the day instead of at night.
ashtonkem 6y ago
The best recommendation I’ve ever heard was to buy as cheap as you can, and then pay attention to what you actually use. Whatever tools in the “regular use” category break first should be replaced with the nicest tool in that category you can afford. Of course if you’re a professional carpenter or similar, chances are you’re already aware about what you need to spend more on.
- bluGill 6y ago
  Don't go too cheap. Mid grade tools work well in general. Cheap tools are often so bad that the frustration they cause is worse than the help, or worse you think it is you not the tool and spend money hiring someone to do what you really could do yourself if your tools were up to the job.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    I don't think anyone capable of doing a job ever hired out a job because the tool they had at the start wasn't good enough. They just went and bought the better tool. Maybe a few people have done that in situations where the cost of the different tool is thousands and much more than paying someone with the tool (e.g. difference between a chainsaw mill and a proper industrial sawmill or a three bag mixer and a concrete plant and fleet of trucks). It's certainly not a situation most DIYers ever run into though.
- vl 6y ago
  Bad advise for current tools: you need to settle on the battery system, since batteries are expensive. I.e. once you start replacing, it’s going to be a single brand, but the trick that you can get great set of batteries and tools as a bundle at large discount. DeWalt in particular, and others, often have great bundles and sales. So if you more or less know what you need, you can get good quality tools at discount by choosing correct bundle, replacing them one by one would be way more expensive.
  - kd5bjo 6y ago
    They’re getting rarer, but you can still generally find corded handheld tools for significantly cheaper than the battery versions. If you’re working somewhere that has a power feed, they can make good trial versions.

by 2mol 6y ago

noneeeed 6y ago

"best long-lasting & cheap" is spot on. Often, getting the very best is not worth it, no matter how long they might last. We had a lot of work done on our house a few years back, and every one of tradesmen used Makita. I asked our carpenter if they were really good, and he said no, but they we pretty good, lasted quite well, but didn't cost the earth. I think the ubiquity of Makita also made it easy to swap batteries and chargers between kit, and between people.

encom 6y ago
Electrician here: Last place I worked was almost exclusively Makita (and they were big, thousands of employees), and being able to swap chargers and batteries was both a blessing and a curse. I took good care of my batteries (and everything else), and I had to be careful not to end up with some other guys battery that he'd used to drive nails with.
- meragrin_ 6y ago
  Please tell me that people were not using the batteries as hammers.
  - xnyan 6y ago
    Driving any fastener can put put of wear on batteries fast, the current requirements are high and peaky. Nails are particularity bad because unlike say, driving a screw or bolt you often don't even give they battery a second or two of break time to cool slightly while you line up your bit to the next fastener, just "BAM BAM BAM" down the line of wood as fast as you can until you drain the battery back to nil. This is one of the the best ways to kill li-ion cells fast.
    - ChoGGi 6y ago
      The usual method of driving a nail with a battery isn't by turning on a tool.
      - djrogers 6y ago
        By far the safest though, but still very hard on the batteries. https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/XNB02Z https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/XNB02Z
  - windowsworkstoo 6y ago
    lol, pretty standard on site mate, especially during demo - some screws are just a bit too captive, quick whack with your battery (in the impact driver) does the trick.
  - turbinerneiter 6y ago
    It is so common that tool manufacturers have it as a load case in their design.
  - zoomablemind 6y ago
    Think of a soldier to use the butt of his rifle in close quarters. This spares a bullet too. Not sure if savings are comparable in case of the battery, but you get the idea.
  - encom 6y ago
    Some times you need to do a bit of percussive problem solving, and battery powered tools are heavy, so you do what you gotta do.
  - capekwasright 6y ago
    The converse of Maslow's hammer is such a common scenario that Wera actually sells a ratchet designed to be used as a hammer (think mechanic working under a car): https://www-us.wera.de/en/great-tools/koloss/ https://www-us.wera.de/en/great-tools/koloss/
    - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
      They're kind of a dud because the extra bulk on the head gets in the way so often. I have one I never use. The vise grip crescent wrench on the other hand...
    - JshWright 6y ago
      You can also get an adjustable crescent wrench with a hammer on the opposite side of the head. It's known colloquially to viewers of the AvE YouTube channel as the "thumb detecting nut fucker"
  - rainbowzootsuit 6y ago
    Every tool has a hammer end.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  This is remedied with Bluetooth batteries that only work when paired to the owner's phone.
jschwartzi 6y ago
Makita worm-drive saws were nice because they were about half a pound lighter than even the Skilsaw with the magnesium case(HD77). This makes a difference when leaning out over the second floor of a house cutting rafter tails.
- culturestate 6y ago
  Have you tried the cordless mag 77s? I'm curious to know if going cordless in those situations would make the weight less important, the same way AirPods sort of magically stay in my ear better without a cord tugging on them.

mywacaday 6y ago

I'm currently trying to decide which vendor/battery system to buy into for the long run. Festool/Hilti are too high end for DIY/Hobby. I'm looking at De Walt/Makita and leaning towards Makita.

windowsworkstoo 6y ago
Yeh me and and most of the people I work with are on Makita (in Aus). Otherwise Milwaukee is quite popular, especially among the sparkies.
- tonyarkles 6y ago
  My wife bought a Ridgid drill with a promo kit of four batteries. The chuck eventually wore out, but the local Ridgid repair shop replaced it for us for $30 (would have been free if we’d registered for warranty). Because we had all those batteries, we were sucked into the ecosystem: cordless sawzall, impact driver, etc. They sell “naked” tools (no battery) at a significant discount. Definitely worth looking into, we’ve been exceptionally happy with the kit we’ve slowly been growing. Edit: in Canada. Not sure if they’re the same elsewhere.
zrobotics 6y ago
Honestly for hobby use I would definitely recommend ryobi. Reason being, they haven't changed their battery design in absolute ages. So, you can take a old drill that was originally ni-cad and use brand new batteries without an adapter. They have updated battery chemistry, so obviously you need to change chargers when you get new batteries, but at least you don't need to re-buy all your tools as well. They definitely aren't pro-grade, but I've put fairly heavy use on mine over the last 9 years and the only tool that failed was a flashlight. Wore out 3 batteries that I took good care of, but buying $200 in batteries & charger is way better than $1k in batteries+tools. The only real problem is they look cheap, so if you are into showing off then that is a negative. I used Dewalt tools at my last mechanic job, and I honestly didn't think they were better enough to justify the price (2-3x ryobi). I haven't used makita, but the Dewalt drills would only survive 2-3 5 foot falls onto concrete, and the chucks were really crappy. My ryobi drill has survived probably 5 falls of the same type, and is still functional. The only real complaint I have is that the plastic absorbs grease, so if you use them in automotive/machine shop environments they start to look really grungy.

quickthrowman 6y ago

My shop (electrical) uses Makita for the vast majority of power tools, but we have some Hilti hammer drills and Hilti BX3 battery fastener, because they’re worth the money. Particularly the battery powered fastener (BX3), it can shoot a 22 ga nail into steel or concrete quietly which means we can do that work in occupied buildings during the day instead of at night.

ashtonkem 6y ago

The best recommendation I’ve ever heard was to buy as cheap as you can, and then pay attention to what you actually use. Whatever tools in the “regular use” category break first should be replaced with the nicest tool in that category you can afford. Of course if you’re a professional carpenter or similar, chances are you’re already aware about what you need to spend more on.

bluGill 6y ago
Don't go too cheap. Mid grade tools work well in general. Cheap tools are often so bad that the frustration they cause is worse than the help, or worse you think it is you not the tool and spend money hiring someone to do what you really could do yourself if your tools were up to the job.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  I don't think anyone capable of doing a job ever hired out a job because the tool they had at the start wasn't good enough. They just went and bought the better tool. Maybe a few people have done that in situations where the cost of the different tool is thousands and much more than paying someone with the tool (e.g. difference between a chainsaw mill and a proper industrial sawmill or a three bag mixer and a concrete plant and fleet of trucks). It's certainly not a situation most DIYers ever run into though.
vl 6y ago
Bad advise for current tools: you need to settle on the battery system, since batteries are expensive. I.e. once you start replacing, it’s going to be a single brand, but the trick that you can get great set of batteries and tools as a bundle at large discount. DeWalt in particular, and others, often have great bundles and sales. So if you more or less know what you need, you can get good quality tools at discount by choosing correct bundle, replacing them one by one would be way more expensive.
- kd5bjo 6y ago
  They’re getting rarer, but you can still generally find corded handheld tools for significantly cheaper than the battery versions. If you’re working somewhere that has a power feed, they can make good trial versions.