5 ms·

Deleting due to HN hivemind.

aaronbrethorst 6y ago
That's just, like, your opinion, man. Here's what several news organizations have to say about Ron DeSantis (R-FL): "Stop hiding true COVID-19 stats, Gov. DeSantis. Our lives are still at risk" — https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article242557271.html https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article242557... "Florida avoided COVID-19 catastrophe by ignoring DeSantis, Trump" — https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/commentary/fl-op-com-schultz-governor-ron-desantis-public-trust-20200512-llb6fmxjwvg6pm3alyhghl7wiu-story.html https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/commentary/fl-op-com-sc... "[Florida] blocked medical examiners from making public their own fatality counts and released a list of those deaths last week only after redacting key information" — https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/does-florida-gov-ron-desantis-know-what-hes-doing-were-about-to-find-out/2020/05/08/8bf6537c-9135-11ea-a9c0-73b93422d691_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/does-florida-gov-ro... Edit: the Cuomo section is an edit made after I posted this, as is the [0] addendum
- icelancer 6y ago
  Deleting due to HN hivemind.
  - aaronbrethorst 6y ago
    True, but you did bothsides it without offering any examples to back up your opinion.
    - icelancer 6y ago
      The entire thing about Inslee has links and references backing up why I think he is a poor leader who has a Democrat branding. Well, one of the many reasons I think he's a poor governor.
      - aaronbrethorst 6y ago
        I think he is a poor leader who has a Democrat branding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(epithet) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(epithet)
        icelancer 6y ago
        Not sure your point. I have no problem with Democrats. I'll likely vote for another one this presidential election. The parent comment asked for Democrat examples. I gave two - one good, one poor.
      - NotSammyHagar 6y ago
        If he hadn't pushed to shut down the state in early March, when Washington state was the worst outbreak by far in the nation we'd have been like other states that it has run away in. Instead we were saved. Washington could have had deaths like Michigan. Remember we were worse than everywhere else here. I thought Inslee took too long to shut down the state.
        sterlind 6y ago
        I was prepared to leave Washington after the cases started piling on and the national guard started assembling a field hospital a couple miles away from me. Then somehow -- I'm still not sure if it was Stay Home Stay Safe or what -- the ERs stopped being flooded, the hospital was packed up without being needed, and most of the people outside started wearing homemade masks and distancing. I'm not home free but I can trust most of the people outside to wear masks and socially distance, and I know the ERs will be available if I get sick (I have a rare disease and my body is weak.) I'm not sure if it's Inslee's doing but I feel much safer here than home (Georgia.)
- benignslime 6y ago
  People are always harder on Democrats, as if a Republican putting on their pants in the morning is enough of an accomplishment.
vyhd 6y ago
Is this supposed to be sarcasm? A whistleblower sounding the alarm on data falsification is in no way comparable to a high-level rollup of data which, by the way, is (at most) a few clicks away on that same site.
- icelancer 6y ago
  >> high-level rollup of data which, by the way, is (at most) a few clicks away on that same site. It isn't. References to "data" are provided, no models or tabular data / metric-driven formulas are. I have a state information freedom request processing. Compare NY to WA and tell me if you really think the data is comparable. As for the data falsification claim, I have no idea why Inslee makes his decisions or when the phases will start based on metrics/numbers. It's entirely up to him and his mandate. That's not falsification, but it sure ain't transparent government or any sort of support for small businesses suffering from extended shutdown orders with no insight on the process.
  - j88439h84 6y ago
    This might help? https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/NovelCoronavirusOutbreak2020COVID19/DataDashboard https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/NovelCoronavirusOutbreak2...
    - icelancer 6y ago
      This does not look remotely like NY state's or have metrics/thresholds/categories. (I am familiar with it.) From this data, what algorithms/models does Inslee plug it into? What are acceptable levels of infection/community spread/ICU beds? Cuomo is very transparent about the 2nd question, which is enough for me given a two month window of time to work on it.
  - labster 6y ago
    You’re right. Forcing officials to lie to the public is comparable to shitty web design. There’s probably some secret collaboration between the State of Washington, Atlassian Jira, vaccine companies, and MySpace behind the whole thing.
oefrha 6y ago
> zero metrics behind them Um, what? You just linked to a random non-(data) dashboard page and decided that metrics aren’t published? When I visit https://www.doh.wa.gov/ https://www.doh.wa.gov/, I see a banner that links to https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/Coronavirus https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/Coronavirus, which in turn prominently links to the actual dashboard https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/NovelCoronavirusOutbreak2020COVID19/DataDashboard https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/NovelCoronavirusOutbreak2... The aforementioned page also has simple data summary tables https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/Coronavirus#CovidDataTables https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/Coronavirus#CovidDataTabl... I can’t even find that random page you linked to without digging. To be clear I’m very tired of partisan bullshit and has no dog in the fight, and there may be other valid criticisms, not to mention it’s not at all clear the published data is accurate (given earlier scandals around care homes), but this particular criticism is very misleading.
- icelancer 6y ago
  Deleting due to HN hivemind.
  - oefrha 6y ago
    Because risk assessment is often way more complex than a couple of flat metrics? Of course, flat and easily understandable (by laypeople) metrics are good for scoring points and making people believe they’re in the know, but it’s not at all clear to me that 7/7 over a bunch of flat metrics with arbitrary thresholds indicates “safe for reopening”. Again, to be clear, I’m personally on the caution side, not the reopening side.
    - icelancer 6y ago
      Deleting due to HN hivemind.
      - jwilber 6y ago
        How you can compare a dashboard that was so blatantly false it warranted a public-apology to a dashboard that DOES show sources And presents the info straightforward is beyond me. If your point is about phases, maybe re-word your initial comment to make that clear.
fullstoptobs 6y ago
Let's be very clear. Your inability to navigate the WA website, and your demands that someone walk you through every bit of their analysis and models are not even remotely in the same realm as rearranging time-series data out of order to mislead people into thinking cases were declining. https://www.vox.com/covid-19-coronavirus-us-response-trump/2020/5/18/21262265/georgia-covid-19-cases-declining-reopening https://www.vox.com/covid-19-coronavirus-us-response-trump/2... End of discussion. Stop this false bothsidesism. It's costing tens of thousands of Americans lives.
NotSammyHagar 6y ago
I think that's extremely unfair and misleading. Jay Inslee and Washington state is being extremely clear on showing information on their covid-19 dashboards. They are excellent. He's said that the threshold change is a complicated choice and it's not a simple are we decreasing at a certain rate. That's not an honest appraisal of the situation.

That's just, like, your opinion, man. Here's what several news organizations have to say about Ron DeSantis (R-FL): "Stop hiding true COVID-19 stats, Gov. DeSantis. Our lives are still at risk" — https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article242557271.html https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article242557... "Florida avoided COVID-19 catastrophe by ignoring DeSantis, Trump" — https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/commentary/fl-op-com-schultz-governor-ron-desantis-public-trust-20200512-llb6fmxjwvg6pm3alyhghl7wiu-story.html https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/commentary/fl-op-com-sc... "[Florida] blocked medical examiners from making public their own fatality counts and released a list of those deaths last week only after redacting key information" — https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/does-florida-gov-ron-desantis-know-what-hes-doing-were-about-to-find-out/2020/05/08/8bf6537c-9135-11ea-a9c0-73b93422d691_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/does-florida-gov-ro... Edit: the Cuomo section is an edit made after I posted this, as is the [0] addendum

icelancer 6y ago
Deleting due to HN hivemind.
- aaronbrethorst 6y ago
  True, but you did bothsides it without offering any examples to back up your opinion.
  - icelancer 6y ago
    The entire thing about Inslee has links and references backing up why I think he is a poor leader who has a Democrat branding. Well, one of the many reasons I think he's a poor governor.
    - aaronbrethorst 6y ago
      I think he is a poor leader who has a Democrat branding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(epithet) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(epithet)
      - icelancer 6y ago
        Not sure your point. I have no problem with Democrats. I'll likely vote for another one this presidential election. The parent comment asked for Democrat examples. I gave two - one good, one poor.
    - NotSammyHagar 6y ago
      If he hadn't pushed to shut down the state in early March, when Washington state was the worst outbreak by far in the nation we'd have been like other states that it has run away in. Instead we were saved. Washington could have had deaths like Michigan. Remember we were worse than everywhere else here. I thought Inslee took too long to shut down the state.
      - sterlind 6y ago
        I was prepared to leave Washington after the cases started piling on and the national guard started assembling a field hospital a couple miles away from me. Then somehow -- I'm still not sure if it was Stay Home Stay Safe or what -- the ERs stopped being flooded, the hospital was packed up without being needed, and most of the people outside started wearing homemade masks and distancing. I'm not home free but I can trust most of the people outside to wear masks and socially distance, and I know the ERs will be available if I get sick (I have a rare disease and my body is weak.) I'm not sure if it's Inslee's doing but I feel much safer here than home (Georgia.)
benignslime 6y ago
People are always harder on Democrats, as if a Republican putting on their pants in the morning is enough of an accomplishment.

vyhd 6y ago

Is this supposed to be sarcasm? A whistleblower sounding the alarm on data falsification is in no way comparable to a high-level rollup of data which, by the way, is (at most) a few clicks away on that same site.

icelancer 6y ago
>> high-level rollup of data which, by the way, is (at most) a few clicks away on that same site. It isn't. References to "data" are provided, no models or tabular data / metric-driven formulas are. I have a state information freedom request processing. Compare NY to WA and tell me if you really think the data is comparable. As for the data falsification claim, I have no idea why Inslee makes his decisions or when the phases will start based on metrics/numbers. It's entirely up to him and his mandate. That's not falsification, but it sure ain't transparent government or any sort of support for small businesses suffering from extended shutdown orders with no insight on the process.
- j88439h84 6y ago
  This might help? https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/NovelCoronavirusOutbreak2020COVID19/DataDashboard https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/NovelCoronavirusOutbreak2...
  - icelancer 6y ago
    This does not look remotely like NY state's or have metrics/thresholds/categories. (I am familiar with it.) From this data, what algorithms/models does Inslee plug it into? What are acceptable levels of infection/community spread/ICU beds? Cuomo is very transparent about the 2nd question, which is enough for me given a two month window of time to work on it.
- labster 6y ago
  You’re right. Forcing officials to lie to the public is comparable to shitty web design. There’s probably some secret collaboration between the State of Washington, Atlassian Jira, vaccine companies, and MySpace behind the whole thing.

oefrha 6y ago

> zero metrics behind them Um, what? You just linked to a random non-(data) dashboard page and decided that metrics aren’t published? When I visit https://www.doh.wa.gov/ https://www.doh.wa.gov/, I see a banner that links to https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/Coronavirus https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/Coronavirus, which in turn prominently links to the actual dashboard https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/NovelCoronavirusOutbreak2020COVID19/DataDashboard https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/NovelCoronavirusOutbreak2... The aforementioned page also has simple data summary tables https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/Coronavirus#CovidDataTables https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/Coronavirus#CovidDataTabl... I can’t even find that random page you linked to without digging. To be clear I’m very tired of partisan bullshit and has no dog in the fight, and there may be other valid criticisms, not to mention it’s not at all clear the published data is accurate (given earlier scandals around care homes), but this particular criticism is very misleading.

icelancer 6y ago
Deleting due to HN hivemind.
- oefrha 6y ago
  Because risk assessment is often way more complex than a couple of flat metrics? Of course, flat and easily understandable (by laypeople) metrics are good for scoring points and making people believe they’re in the know, but it’s not at all clear to me that 7/7 over a bunch of flat metrics with arbitrary thresholds indicates “safe for reopening”. Again, to be clear, I’m personally on the caution side, not the reopening side.
  - icelancer 6y ago
    Deleting due to HN hivemind.
    - jwilber 6y ago
      How you can compare a dashboard that was so blatantly false it warranted a public-apology to a dashboard that DOES show sources And presents the info straightforward is beyond me. If your point is about phases, maybe re-word your initial comment to make that clear.

fullstoptobs 6y ago

Let's be very clear. Your inability to navigate the WA website, and your demands that someone walk you through every bit of their analysis and models are not even remotely in the same realm as rearranging time-series data out of order to mislead people into thinking cases were declining. https://www.vox.com/covid-19-coronavirus-us-response-trump/2020/5/18/21262265/georgia-covid-19-cases-declining-reopening https://www.vox.com/covid-19-coronavirus-us-response-trump/2... End of discussion. Stop this false bothsidesism. It's costing tens of thousands of Americans lives.

NotSammyHagar 6y ago

I think that's extremely unfair and misleading. Jay Inslee and Washington state is being extremely clear on showing information on their covid-19 dashboards. They are excellent. He's said that the threshold change is a complicated choice and it's not a simple are we decreasing at a certain rate. That's not an honest appraisal of the situation.