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Power tool manufacturers and who owns them

196 points by js2 6y ago

RandomBacon 6y ago
Interesting and good to know, but how do I use this information when buying tools?
- AngryData 6y ago
  If you find a tool you like, check the offerings of the sub-brands from the same group. The mechanical difference between them might be little to none, while the price between them may vary wildly. Unfortunately you aren't going to be allowed to take them apart before purchase so its still hard to compare the internals, but you can check reviews and comparisons of those products.
  - agumonkey 6y ago
    Some youtubers do just that (almost) and it is interesting. dewaldt vs Harbor freight etc
    - emsign 6y ago
      AvE comes to mind, very informative. Although I don't like his dad jokes and sexist phrases at all, they got old and annoying really quick. Sadly useful information to bad joke ratio is about 1:3 in his videos.
      - jcims 6y ago
        He doesn't do teardowns but Project Farm is my new favorite product tester/review channel. I enjoy me some AvE but this is the polar opposite experience - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2rzsm1Qi6N1X-wuOg_p0Ng https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2rzsm1Qi6N1X-wuOg_p0Ng
        agumonkey 6y ago
        Yeah, the man churns through equipment and tests at a rare pace. So much I'm concerned for his sanity sometimes. So clear, so to the point.. pure service. One great channel is the aptly named "Tool teardown": - he even compares Harbor Freight entry level variants https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1keZFiKQhPc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1keZFiKQhPc - and the HF high grade vs dewaldt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK3wsTsauq0&t=441s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK3wsTsauq0&t=441s
      - throwanem 6y ago
        Still a better ratio than any of my actual uncles, by a couple orders of magnitude in most cases. Besides, there's nothing that's not funny about seeing a half-in-the-bag jackass put a hacksaw through an 18650 and then be surprised when it shits the bed.
  - riversflow 6y ago
    I mean, my intuition from owning a shop and buying a fair number of tools (and researching them) for heavy use is reinforced by this chart. The best tools are made by the corporations with the least siblings and the most specialization. As someone who had a fleet of power tools for an industrial operation, I prefer Makita over dewalt, for example. A number of more niche "best in class brands" weren't even on this list, for example Fein grinders are what machinists buy, Boeing uses Hutchins air tools, and most Arborists I've met reach for a stihl. Fascinating regardless
- bruce_one 6y ago
  The useful thing I've found from this is that "AEG" in Australia is the same as "RIDGID" (orange) in the US and the batteries are compatible. So I've been able to buy tools that are not available as AEG tools in Australia (ie they're not offered in the product range here). I purchased them skin only to avoid any charger incompatibilities (and use the AEG batteries and charges with the RIDGID tools). It might work in reverse that buying AEG from Australia is now a cheaper way to get RIDGID tools because the Australian dollar is quite weak compared to the US dollar.
- rfreiberger 6y ago
  Personally I use this in terms of trickle-down technology. If a feature appears on a Milwaukee, it will shortly appear on A Ridgid or Ryobi soon. This was the case for hydraulic impact drivers, that first came out on the Ridgid then Ryobi and Milwaukee soon after. But it's really about the entire tool family and how much does it fit you. Since you're not buying a single tool but more about buying the battery format. So if you need garden tools maybe down the line, check out a tool lineup that offers this, even if it's a remote possibility. All of the tools IMHO are well built and I doubt there's a huge gap in performance.
  - exhilaration 6y ago
    Wait, you're saying that Ridgid, Ryobi and Milwaukee can share batteries and chargers?
    - fragmede 6y ago
      Not sure why you're downvoted, but perhaps apropos for the maker/hardware hacker-inclined, the packs I've seen are just 18650 cells (same as used en-mass on original Teslas) inside of a 3D-(re)printable plastic shell, and some hackable electronics. #righttorepair
  - throwanem 6y ago
    There's a pretty huge gap in durability. I had a Ryobi starter-set drill blow out its MOSFET midway through taking an Ikea bed apart. The starter-set Milwaukee M12 I replaced it with is considerably better built, notably in having a much higher-rated flyback diode and better heat sinking. As a bonus, it has a sprag clutch behind the chuck, which makes it a lot nicer to use. That said, I'd still point at Ryobi as a good place to start, or to move up from an Ikea toy or whatever. They're fine for occasional, light-duty kind of use, and they have a wide range of cheap 'n cheerful stuff that'll take the 18v One+ batteries - the drill might be dead (until I get around to resurrecting it), but I'm still getting good service out of its batteries in the $100 weed eater I use a couple times a year. (Also, that $50 Ryobi starter drill, plus a cheap rotary scrubber head off Amazon, makes a great tool for getting rid of stubborn mildew. That's the other thing I like about them: they're cheap enough that you can try dumb shit and not be too upset if it blows up on you, or not really mind running it to death if it doesn't.)
- wastedhours 6y ago
  As other commenters have said - look for very similar specs between the more halo brands and the lower end stuff. Like a lot of things, it's possibly the same thing in a different suit, or only slightly detuned. You can save a pretty penny.
- tinco 6y ago
  All of these manufacturers make awesome tools, despite what many people claim, all of the hand tools are better than they were 20 years ago. There's a couple things you need to realize: most of them are fighting to have a good name, which means they'll do their utmost to squeeze value out of every cent they spend manufacturing a device. If you buy a $80 Makita drill, it's going to be just as good as a $80 DeWalt drill, or a Bosch or Metabo one. It's more about whether you like the colour scheme, the feel of it, maybe some feature tradeoffs. Want a better drill? Simply spend more. Yes, Hilti and Festool exclusively make $200 drills, and they're worth it to the professionals. But the $150 Makita/DeWalt/Milwaukee/etc drills are also better than the $80 drills those same manufacturers make. More money means more value. You think a carpenter would spend extra to get a $150 Makita instead of a $80 one if it wasn't worth it? Those brands would be nowhere if they couldn't get the pro's to use their tools. Looking purely at the brand can bite you in the ass. You might lift your nose at modern B&D, Ryobi or Bosch Green, because they only sell cheap tools, but then you'd miss the fact that DeWalt sells crap as well, they just don't switch the color schemes. Bosch has the same brand, but two colorschemes (green being the cheap ones). Makita sometimes sells batches of cheap powertools in big box stores that are bad and seems to be magically missing from their global marketing. Before buying a powertool, go to the store and grab it. Feel the weight of it, rub the plastic, scratch it with your finger nails, shake it hard to feel its sturdiness. Turn it on and notice the power, and the control. Go on youtube and see what the pro's use. Lots of pro's don't have any sponsorships, and even if they are sponsored, they wouldn't use the sponsored tools if they couldn't accomplish the work at the level they need to entertain their audience. Personally, I've got a mix of brands and qualities. When I started out everything I had was shit tier, and any time something either broke or annoyed me with its crappiness I replaced it with a better one. If you've got the money, you could skip that step and just buy good tier everything (just don't buy the DeWalt combo deals, they're a scam) and upgrade to S-tier when you start noticing some things that could be better. (about old tools: the old tools that are better are all the things that get better when they're heavier. That's decidedly not hand held power tools)
2mol 6y ago
TIL that Festool and SawStop are under one umbrella! For those that don't know, SawStop is one of the most impressive recent techical innovations in tablesaws. It basically smashes a running blade down into an aluminium crashblock as soon as it detects something conductive touching it. It's great to watch it work: https://youtu.be/rnlTGndRi38?t=158 https://youtu.be/rnlTGndRi38?t=158 Also, the list is missing at least Mafell and Fein, but they are (like Hilti and Makita) simply owned by themselves. Edit: and Lamello!
- starpilot 6y ago
  Festool is also insanely expensive, like the Arcteryx of tools. My local specialty lumberyard also sells Festool, and no other tool brands.
  - culturestate 6y ago
    Brands like Festool and Hilti are aimed squarely at professionals doing high-volume work. You're paying for the warranty, spare parts guarantee, and system compatibility as much as you are for the tool itself. In both cases I get the impression that if it were financially viable, they'd prefer to only do fleet sales and maintenance.
    - jschwartzi 6y ago
      Hitachi nailers are another tool I'd add to the "strictly professional" category. Their framing nailers are built like light boat anchors and you can use them the same way you'd use a sledgehammer in some applications. We would routinely use the back of the nailgun to move the wall around if it wasn't quite on target.
  - 2mol 6y ago
    For personal use they are a bit overkill, but only if your cheaper tools don't break after 3 years. The professionals I know generally all use a couple expensive tools from Hiltl or Festool etc over time. They can justify a new machine on a single job that pays ~8k, the time saved with the right tool is often already worth it. And of course they are smart enough to know when they can use the "best long-lasting & cheap" tools instead of the high-end equivalents. I'm looking at you Makita PJ7000 which I bought for 150.- vs a Lamello that will be >500.- or a Festool Domino for 1k.
starpilot 6y ago
I've seen the Chinese brand TACKLIFE show up on Amazon a lot. Very inexpensive and decent reviews. I'm looking at their 10" miter saw. Then I see the Bosch one for 3x the price. What does that get you?
- anon73044 6y ago
  $199 ? Same price for the 10" Craftsman and Metabo. Buy once, cry once.
  - aurels 6y ago
    Small TACKLIFE stuff are really good indeed : laser level, telemeter, ..
- simondelacourt 6y ago
  If you don't care about it being square, durable and trustworthy, than something like TACKLIFE might work, but for a miter saw I would pick something just a bit more expensive, or buy something second hand. I've owned a cheap one, it failed, bought a festool one, its still square, doesn't fail and the cut quality is great. You don't need to buy a Kapex (the festool miter saw), but something like the bosch, milwaukee, dewalt or makita will survive way longer. I've bought too many cheap tools to do that ever again.
- throwanem 6y ago
  A saw with a decent chance of lasting more than half the job. If you want the kind that doesn't, get it from Harbor Freight (Princess Auto in CA), at least as long as they still have the 90-day NQA warranty. It'll be about as good as the Amazon junk, which is not very, but also a lot quicker and easier to replace when the MOSFET blows up after thirty or forty total inches of cut.
  - pravda 6y ago
    I have a 10" Harbor Freight table saw. Owned it for almost 20 years. Still works fine. I think it cost $100.
skookum-skuad 6y ago
- STAHL (truck bodies) - Ginsu knives - Kirby - RediVac fall under Berkshire Hathaway's Scott Fetzer. Interestingly, Snap-off (also known as Snap-on) still owns itself regularly. That may or may not be a Good Thing™. And moar AvE teardown vijeos needed because you know corporate overlords always be hollowing-out once proud brands. Craftsman hand-tools had a lifetime exchange warranty should they break, not that wooden-handled screwdrivers would ever do such a thing.
- zengargoyle 6y ago
  Back in the 1970's my father worked at a steel fabrication plant building bridges and other humongous things. They would custom order some gigantic socket from Craftsman, use it on some high torque wrench until it shattered, take it back and get it replaced.
  - shoo 6y ago
    GSaaS
  - lb1lf 6y ago
    At a former employer, a fresh CADdie designed a brake housing with a bolt circle too close to the outside diameter for a socket to fit over the bolts. Oops. He'd apparently turned off some constraint check without noticing, and, never having worked in manufacturing, didn't think twice of it. The workshop foreman had to have sockets machined down in order to install the brake packs effectively. That designer didn't dare venture into the assembly hall for years!
Chris2048 6y ago
Here in Ireland wood-turning has a fair following. It is known that older lathes are generally better - they consist of more metal, the shafts are solid rather than hollow. edit: I cannot fathom why this was downvoted..
- askvictor 6y ago
  I think that for many (most) tools that are not battery powered or (have a preference/requirement to be) lightweight, older is better. Or at least last longer. I have a Kenwood A701A mixer that's about 50 years old and going strong. Things did cost proportionally more back then though.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    "Back in the day" engineering things to last a precise amount of time was expensive. You couldn't just make your simulation software figure it out, you had to test, consult data, etc, etc which was often not done (or done less) and designs relied more heavily on data from past examples, tribal knowledge and educated guesses. Several expected lifetimes of the object later the only stuff left in service is the good stuff.
    - jbay 6y ago
      That could be part of it. But I think survivor bias generally gets much more credit as an explanation than it deserves, and I strongly doubt that older generations of tools would have been designed like modern tools even if, say, simulation software had been available then. It could be just relentless pressure to reduce costs, after the people who knew why it should be done a certain way had all retired, and a customer base that changed into one that either didn't know how to recognize quality, or valued it less. Maybe we can do without heat-treating the surface? Maybe just give a quick grind instead of hand scraping the ways? Maybe outsource the castings instead of doing them in-house using the process we'd honed over decades?
      - deckard1 6y ago
binarymax 6y ago
Interesting to see Grizzly not under an umbrella. I order tools from them and they are awesome. I wonder what other companies are still independent.
- luma 6y ago
  That might be because Grizzly doesn't actually make anything, they buy from Asian tool manufacturers and rebadge for western distribution.
  - Loughla 6y ago
    This is the correct answer. They are a distributor that sells medium-end tools. More expensive than entry level, but less expensive than professional. They are decent tools, but most people don't understand they are not a manufacturer, just a distributor.
- mauvehaus 6y ago
  Maybe so, but a lot of their stuff is the same castings as everything else made in that part of the planet. Compare: http://www.powermatic.com/us/en/c/planers/P260/?reset=true http://www.powermatic.com/us/en/c/planers/P260/?reset=true https://www.grizzly.com/search?q=((category:"Planers"))+AND+(brand:Grizzly)+AND+(planer_size:"20+in.") https://www.grizzly.com/search?q=((category:"Planers"))+AND+... As near as I can tell, the 20" planers differ primarily in what color they're painted. I say that having used and wrenched on both in various shops I've worked in. I also have firsthand experience with HolyTek's 24" thicknessing planer (no direct link, because god forbid the web actually worked the way it did in 1998), and it sure looks to be the same machine as Grizzly's offering in that size and horsepower rating: http://www.holytek.com.tw/product.html?cid=2 http://www.holytek.com.tw/product.html?cid=2 click single and double sided planer https://www.grizzly.com/search?q=((category:"Planers"))+AND+(brand:Grizzly)+AND+(planer_size:"24+in.")+AND+(horsepower:"10+HP") https://www.grizzly.com/search?q=((category:"Planers"))+AND+... Grizzly may be organizationally and financially independent of the other vendors, but they sure seem to share manufacturing or sub it out to the same foundries and machining outfits.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
I'm amused that they skip Harbor Freight despite it being an industry colossus through sheer volume. It's like trying to write an article about what grocery stores sell what brands of milk and skipping Walmart. https://pow-jrk.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Tool-Brand-Behemoths-Tool-Companies-Who-Owns-What-Brands.jpg https://pow-jrk.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/To... And before anyone tries a "no true tradesman" fallacy, go ask some people who work in the trades. There are select items they likely buy from harbor freight, probably not any "required to do the job" battery powered power tools but lots of hand tools, consumables, shop equipment, etc are likely sourced through them.
- philipodonnell 6y ago
  Its at the bottom?
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    No. It's not. I read the article and then when I didn't see it I ctrl+F'd for "harbor" and didn't get any hits. They have a section on big box store tools yet they miss the only big box store that is involved in its supply chain to the point of engineering (I don't know if it's in house or 3rd party) tools tailor made for them.
- luma 6y ago
  I would suspect this is because HF doesn't actually manufacture tools, they're a distributor with some white-label brands (all with hilariously "American" sounding names). This is also true of companies like Grizzly, which also aren't included in this article.
- pravda 6y ago
  I am an exclusively Harbor Freight shop! :-) Chicago Electric, Pittsburgh Tools, Drill Master, and of course Central Machinery. 80% of the quality for 20% of the price. And 20% off with the coupon!
- capekwasright 6y ago
  Shoutout to https://www.hfqpdb.com/ https://www.hfqpdb.com/ for collecting the myriad coupons Harbor Freight sends out in one centralized, easy to use database.
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m463 6y ago
what about snap-on? (they make hand and power tools)
baggachipz 6y ago
I'm actually surprised there are this many different umbrella corporations over the listed brands. Judging by other industries (e.g., personal care/grooming products) this industry seems ripe for more consolidation.
wastedhours 6y ago
Used to do a bit back in the day, every time I got out my Black and Decker 18v drill I'd get a few mocking comments that it wasn't a "proper" tool. Kept my mouth shut about it being a rebranded DeWalt for half the price. They didn't deserve the tip. Makita was always the highest regarded - assumed they were still a group-brand though, interesting to see them and Hilti are basically their own companies.
- dbatten 6y ago
  How did you discover it was actually a rebranded DeWalt (as opposed to a drill manufactured to less demanding specs by a company that also happens to own the DeWalt brand)? I own a good number of power tools, mostly DeWalt, though I usually check Consumer Reports and other reviews and have bought from other companies when the DeWalt option didn't look like it was holding up well. If I could verify that a homeowner-oriented brand (as opposed to a tradesman-oriented brand) like Black and Decker was literally just re-skinning a higher-end tool and selling it for less, I'd happily take the cost savings, though.
  - wastedhours 6y ago
    Don't have any strong evidence to back up my claim unfortunately. We compared it visually, looked identical, specs sounded identical, and it put up with the same abuse over an extended period of time (I'm still, 10 years later, picking bits of concrete out of its air holes). I'll backtrack then and say "it's as good as the offering from their much more expensive stable mate, to the extent my daily use with it was exactly the same". Their QA might be lower then, so not sure whether it's a glowing recommendation of all their units, or just I won the drill-lottery. Will caveat and say this wasn't a bog-standard entry level drill - it was pretty much B&D's top of the line from their offering at the time.
- Grazester 6y ago
  When I was a teen back in the 90s working on my dad's boat I discovered this.Started looking at Black and Decker differently as a result.
nabla9 6y ago
If you are pro, there seems to be only Fein, Makita and Hilti. Every other brand is just 'who cares'.
- tinco 6y ago
  Except that pro's also use festool, bosch, dewalt and milwaukee. How is Makita at another level from DeWalt in any way?
- blhack 6y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean by "pro" but many/most construction workers I see working use milwaukee tools. I don't think I'v ever seen fein in the wild.
  - brodouevencode 6y ago
    You see Fein around sometimes with finish carpentry. The drills are excellent.
seph-reed 6y ago
Ryobi is barely mentioned, but is definitely the most popular amongst the people I work with. Generally because it's volunteer stuff and everything gets broken so there's no point in getting something extra nice.
- brodouevencode 6y ago
  I know contractors that use Ryobi because if it gets ripped off, broken, or lost it's nothing to replace. Site theft is tragically a too common thing when the economy sucks, like now.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

196 points by js2 6y ago

RandomBacon 6y ago

Interesting and good to know, but how do I use this information when buying tools?

AngryData 6y ago
If you find a tool you like, check the offerings of the sub-brands from the same group. The mechanical difference between them might be little to none, while the price between them may vary wildly. Unfortunately you aren't going to be allowed to take them apart before purchase so its still hard to compare the internals, but you can check reviews and comparisons of those products.
- agumonkey 6y ago
  Some youtubers do just that (almost) and it is interesting. dewaldt vs Harbor freight etc
  - emsign 6y ago
    AvE comes to mind, very informative. Although I don't like his dad jokes and sexist phrases at all, they got old and annoying really quick. Sadly useful information to bad joke ratio is about 1:3 in his videos.
    - jcims 6y ago
      He doesn't do teardowns but Project Farm is my new favorite product tester/review channel. I enjoy me some AvE but this is the polar opposite experience - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2rzsm1Qi6N1X-wuOg_p0Ng https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2rzsm1Qi6N1X-wuOg_p0Ng
      - agumonkey 6y ago
        Yeah, the man churns through equipment and tests at a rare pace. So much I'm concerned for his sanity sometimes. So clear, so to the point.. pure service. One great channel is the aptly named "Tool teardown": - he even compares Harbor Freight entry level variants https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1keZFiKQhPc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1keZFiKQhPc - and the HF high grade vs dewaldt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK3wsTsauq0&t=441s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK3wsTsauq0&t=441s
    - throwanem 6y ago
      Still a better ratio than any of my actual uncles, by a couple orders of magnitude in most cases. Besides, there's nothing that's not funny about seeing a half-in-the-bag jackass put a hacksaw through an 18650 and then be surprised when it shits the bed.
- riversflow 6y ago
  I mean, my intuition from owning a shop and buying a fair number of tools (and researching them) for heavy use is reinforced by this chart. The best tools are made by the corporations with the least siblings and the most specialization. As someone who had a fleet of power tools for an industrial operation, I prefer Makita over dewalt, for example. A number of more niche "best in class brands" weren't even on this list, for example Fein grinders are what machinists buy, Boeing uses Hutchins air tools, and most Arborists I've met reach for a stihl. Fascinating regardless
bruce_one 6y ago
The useful thing I've found from this is that "AEG" in Australia is the same as "RIDGID" (orange) in the US and the batteries are compatible. So I've been able to buy tools that are not available as AEG tools in Australia (ie they're not offered in the product range here). I purchased them skin only to avoid any charger incompatibilities (and use the AEG batteries and charges with the RIDGID tools). It might work in reverse that buying AEG from Australia is now a cheaper way to get RIDGID tools because the Australian dollar is quite weak compared to the US dollar.
rfreiberger 6y ago
Personally I use this in terms of trickle-down technology. If a feature appears on a Milwaukee, it will shortly appear on A Ridgid or Ryobi soon. This was the case for hydraulic impact drivers, that first came out on the Ridgid then Ryobi and Milwaukee soon after. But it's really about the entire tool family and how much does it fit you. Since you're not buying a single tool but more about buying the battery format. So if you need garden tools maybe down the line, check out a tool lineup that offers this, even if it's a remote possibility. All of the tools IMHO are well built and I doubt there's a huge gap in performance.
- exhilaration 6y ago
  Wait, you're saying that Ridgid, Ryobi and Milwaukee can share batteries and chargers?
  - fragmede 6y ago
    Not sure why you're downvoted, but perhaps apropos for the maker/hardware hacker-inclined, the packs I've seen are just 18650 cells (same as used en-mass on original Teslas) inside of a 3D-(re)printable plastic shell, and some hackable electronics. #righttorepair
- throwanem 6y ago
  There's a pretty huge gap in durability. I had a Ryobi starter-set drill blow out its MOSFET midway through taking an Ikea bed apart. The starter-set Milwaukee M12 I replaced it with is considerably better built, notably in having a much higher-rated flyback diode and better heat sinking. As a bonus, it has a sprag clutch behind the chuck, which makes it a lot nicer to use. That said, I'd still point at Ryobi as a good place to start, or to move up from an Ikea toy or whatever. They're fine for occasional, light-duty kind of use, and they have a wide range of cheap 'n cheerful stuff that'll take the 18v One+ batteries - the drill might be dead (until I get around to resurrecting it), but I'm still getting good service out of its batteries in the $100 weed eater I use a couple times a year. (Also, that $50 Ryobi starter drill, plus a cheap rotary scrubber head off Amazon, makes a great tool for getting rid of stubborn mildew. That's the other thing I like about them: they're cheap enough that you can try dumb shit and not be too upset if it blows up on you, or not really mind running it to death if it doesn't.)
wastedhours 6y ago
As other commenters have said - look for very similar specs between the more halo brands and the lower end stuff. Like a lot of things, it's possibly the same thing in a different suit, or only slightly detuned. You can save a pretty penny.
tinco 6y ago
All of these manufacturers make awesome tools, despite what many people claim, all of the hand tools are better than they were 20 years ago. There's a couple things you need to realize: most of them are fighting to have a good name, which means they'll do their utmost to squeeze value out of every cent they spend manufacturing a device. If you buy a $80 Makita drill, it's going to be just as good as a $80 DeWalt drill, or a Bosch or Metabo one. It's more about whether you like the colour scheme, the feel of it, maybe some feature tradeoffs. Want a better drill? Simply spend more. Yes, Hilti and Festool exclusively make $200 drills, and they're worth it to the professionals. But the $150 Makita/DeWalt/Milwaukee/etc drills are also better than the $80 drills those same manufacturers make. More money means more value. You think a carpenter would spend extra to get a $150 Makita instead of a $80 one if it wasn't worth it? Those brands would be nowhere if they couldn't get the pro's to use their tools. Looking purely at the brand can bite you in the ass. You might lift your nose at modern B&D, Ryobi or Bosch Green, because they only sell cheap tools, but then you'd miss the fact that DeWalt sells crap as well, they just don't switch the color schemes. Bosch has the same brand, but two colorschemes (green being the cheap ones). Makita sometimes sells batches of cheap powertools in big box stores that are bad and seems to be magically missing from their global marketing. Before buying a powertool, go to the store and grab it. Feel the weight of it, rub the plastic, scratch it with your finger nails, shake it hard to feel its sturdiness. Turn it on and notice the power, and the control. Go on youtube and see what the pro's use. Lots of pro's don't have any sponsorships, and even if they are sponsored, they wouldn't use the sponsored tools if they couldn't accomplish the work at the level they need to entertain their audience. Personally, I've got a mix of brands and qualities. When I started out everything I had was shit tier, and any time something either broke or annoyed me with its crappiness I replaced it with a better one. If you've got the money, you could skip that step and just buy good tier everything (just don't buy the DeWalt combo deals, they're a scam) and upgrade to S-tier when you start noticing some things that could be better. (about old tools: the old tools that are better are all the things that get better when they're heavier. That's decidedly not hand held power tools)

2mol 6y ago

TIL that Festool and SawStop are under one umbrella! For those that don't know, SawStop is one of the most impressive recent techical innovations in tablesaws. It basically smashes a running blade down into an aluminium crashblock as soon as it detects something conductive touching it. It's great to watch it work: https://youtu.be/rnlTGndRi38?t=158 https://youtu.be/rnlTGndRi38?t=158 Also, the list is missing at least Mafell and Fein, but they are (like Hilti and Makita) simply owned by themselves. Edit: and Lamello!

starpilot 6y ago
Festool is also insanely expensive, like the Arcteryx of tools. My local specialty lumberyard also sells Festool, and no other tool brands.
- culturestate 6y ago
  Brands like Festool and Hilti are aimed squarely at professionals doing high-volume work. You're paying for the warranty, spare parts guarantee, and system compatibility as much as you are for the tool itself. In both cases I get the impression that if it were financially viable, they'd prefer to only do fleet sales and maintenance.
  - jschwartzi 6y ago
    Hitachi nailers are another tool I'd add to the "strictly professional" category. Their framing nailers are built like light boat anchors and you can use them the same way you'd use a sledgehammer in some applications. We would routinely use the back of the nailgun to move the wall around if it wasn't quite on target.
- 2mol 6y ago
  For personal use they are a bit overkill, but only if your cheaper tools don't break after 3 years. The professionals I know generally all use a couple expensive tools from Hiltl or Festool etc over time. They can justify a new machine on a single job that pays ~8k, the time saved with the right tool is often already worth it. And of course they are smart enough to know when they can use the "best long-lasting & cheap" tools instead of the high-end equivalents. I'm looking at you Makita PJ7000 which I bought for 150.- vs a Lamello that will be >500.- or a Festool Domino for 1k.

starpilot 6y ago

I've seen the Chinese brand TACKLIFE show up on Amazon a lot. Very inexpensive and decent reviews. I'm looking at their 10" miter saw. Then I see the Bosch one for 3x the price. What does that get you?

anon73044 6y ago
$199 ? Same price for the 10" Craftsman and Metabo. Buy once, cry once.
- aurels 6y ago
  Small TACKLIFE stuff are really good indeed : laser level, telemeter, ..
simondelacourt 6y ago
If you don't care about it being square, durable and trustworthy, than something like TACKLIFE might work, but for a miter saw I would pick something just a bit more expensive, or buy something second hand. I've owned a cheap one, it failed, bought a festool one, its still square, doesn't fail and the cut quality is great. You don't need to buy a Kapex (the festool miter saw), but something like the bosch, milwaukee, dewalt or makita will survive way longer. I've bought too many cheap tools to do that ever again.
throwanem 6y ago
A saw with a decent chance of lasting more than half the job. If you want the kind that doesn't, get it from Harbor Freight (Princess Auto in CA), at least as long as they still have the 90-day NQA warranty. It'll be about as good as the Amazon junk, which is not very, but also a lot quicker and easier to replace when the MOSFET blows up after thirty or forty total inches of cut.
- pravda 6y ago
  I have a 10" Harbor Freight table saw. Owned it for almost 20 years. Still works fine. I think it cost $100.

skookum-skuad 6y ago

- STAHL (truck bodies) - Ginsu knives - Kirby - RediVac fall under Berkshire Hathaway's Scott Fetzer. Interestingly, Snap-off (also known as Snap-on) still owns itself regularly. That may or may not be a Good Thing™. And moar AvE teardown vijeos needed because you know corporate overlords always be hollowing-out once proud brands. Craftsman hand-tools had a lifetime exchange warranty should they break, not that wooden-handled screwdrivers would ever do such a thing.

zengargoyle 6y ago
Back in the 1970's my father worked at a steel fabrication plant building bridges and other humongous things. They would custom order some gigantic socket from Craftsman, use it on some high torque wrench until it shattered, take it back and get it replaced.
- shoo 6y ago
  GSaaS
- lb1lf 6y ago
  At a former employer, a fresh CADdie designed a brake housing with a bolt circle too close to the outside diameter for a socket to fit over the bolts. Oops. He'd apparently turned off some constraint check without noticing, and, never having worked in manufacturing, didn't think twice of it. The workshop foreman had to have sockets machined down in order to install the brake packs effectively. That designer didn't dare venture into the assembly hall for years!

Chris2048 6y ago

Here in Ireland wood-turning has a fair following. It is known that older lathes are generally better - they consist of more metal, the shafts are solid rather than hollow. edit: I cannot fathom why this was downvoted..

askvictor 6y ago
I think that for many (most) tools that are not battery powered or (have a preference/requirement to be) lightweight, older is better. Or at least last longer. I have a Kenwood A701A mixer that's about 50 years old and going strong. Things did cost proportionally more back then though.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  "Back in the day" engineering things to last a precise amount of time was expensive. You couldn't just make your simulation software figure it out, you had to test, consult data, etc, etc which was often not done (or done less) and designs relied more heavily on data from past examples, tribal knowledge and educated guesses. Several expected lifetimes of the object later the only stuff left in service is the good stuff.
  - jbay 6y ago
    That could be part of it. But I think survivor bias generally gets much more credit as an explanation than it deserves, and I strongly doubt that older generations of tools would have been designed like modern tools even if, say, simulation software had been available then. It could be just relentless pressure to reduce costs, after the people who knew why it should be done a certain way had all retired, and a customer base that changed into one that either didn't know how to recognize quality, or valued it less. Maybe we can do without heat-treating the surface? Maybe just give a quick grind instead of hand scraping the ways? Maybe outsource the castings instead of doing them in-house using the process we'd honed over decades?
    - deckard1 6y ago

binarymax 6y ago

Interesting to see Grizzly not under an umbrella. I order tools from them and they are awesome. I wonder what other companies are still independent.

luma 6y ago
That might be because Grizzly doesn't actually make anything, they buy from Asian tool manufacturers and rebadge for western distribution.
- Loughla 6y ago
  This is the correct answer. They are a distributor that sells medium-end tools. More expensive than entry level, but less expensive than professional. They are decent tools, but most people don't understand they are not a manufacturer, just a distributor.
mauvehaus 6y ago
Maybe so, but a lot of their stuff is the same castings as everything else made in that part of the planet. Compare: http://www.powermatic.com/us/en/c/planers/P260/?reset=true http://www.powermatic.com/us/en/c/planers/P260/?reset=true https://www.grizzly.com/search?q=((category:"Planers"))+AND+(brand:Grizzly)+AND+(planer_size:"20+in.") https://www.grizzly.com/search?q=((category:"Planers"))+AND+... As near as I can tell, the 20" planers differ primarily in what color they're painted. I say that having used and wrenched on both in various shops I've worked in. I also have firsthand experience with HolyTek's 24" thicknessing planer (no direct link, because god forbid the web actually worked the way it did in 1998), and it sure looks to be the same machine as Grizzly's offering in that size and horsepower rating: http://www.holytek.com.tw/product.html?cid=2 http://www.holytek.com.tw/product.html?cid=2 click single and double sided planer https://www.grizzly.com/search?q=((category:"Planers"))+AND+(brand:Grizzly)+AND+(planer_size:"24+in.")+AND+(horsepower:"10+HP") https://www.grizzly.com/search?q=((category:"Planers"))+AND+... Grizzly may be organizationally and financially independent of the other vendors, but they sure seem to share manufacturing or sub it out to the same foundries and machining outfits.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

I'm amused that they skip Harbor Freight despite it being an industry colossus through sheer volume. It's like trying to write an article about what grocery stores sell what brands of milk and skipping Walmart. https://pow-jrk.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Tool-Brand-Behemoths-Tool-Companies-Who-Owns-What-Brands.jpg https://pow-jrk.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/To... And before anyone tries a "no true tradesman" fallacy, go ask some people who work in the trades. There are select items they likely buy from harbor freight, probably not any "required to do the job" battery powered power tools but lots of hand tools, consumables, shop equipment, etc are likely sourced through them.

philipodonnell 6y ago
Its at the bottom?
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  No. It's not. I read the article and then when I didn't see it I ctrl+F'd for "harbor" and didn't get any hits. They have a section on big box store tools yet they miss the only big box store that is involved in its supply chain to the point of engineering (I don't know if it's in house or 3rd party) tools tailor made for them.
luma 6y ago
I would suspect this is because HF doesn't actually manufacture tools, they're a distributor with some white-label brands (all with hilariously "American" sounding names). This is also true of companies like Grizzly, which also aren't included in this article.
pravda 6y ago
I am an exclusively Harbor Freight shop! :-) Chicago Electric, Pittsburgh Tools, Drill Master, and of course Central Machinery. 80% of the quality for 20% of the price. And 20% off with the coupon!
capekwasright 6y ago
Shoutout to https://www.hfqpdb.com/ https://www.hfqpdb.com/ for collecting the myriad coupons Harbor Freight sends out in one centralized, easy to use database.

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m463 6y ago

what about snap-on? (they make hand and power tools)

baggachipz 6y ago

I'm actually surprised there are this many different umbrella corporations over the listed brands. Judging by other industries (e.g., personal care/grooming products) this industry seems ripe for more consolidation.

wastedhours 6y ago

Used to do a bit back in the day, every time I got out my Black and Decker 18v drill I'd get a few mocking comments that it wasn't a "proper" tool. Kept my mouth shut about it being a rebranded DeWalt for half the price. They didn't deserve the tip. Makita was always the highest regarded - assumed they were still a group-brand though, interesting to see them and Hilti are basically their own companies.

dbatten 6y ago
How did you discover it was actually a rebranded DeWalt (as opposed to a drill manufactured to less demanding specs by a company that also happens to own the DeWalt brand)? I own a good number of power tools, mostly DeWalt, though I usually check Consumer Reports and other reviews and have bought from other companies when the DeWalt option didn't look like it was holding up well. If I could verify that a homeowner-oriented brand (as opposed to a tradesman-oriented brand) like Black and Decker was literally just re-skinning a higher-end tool and selling it for less, I'd happily take the cost savings, though.
- wastedhours 6y ago
  Don't have any strong evidence to back up my claim unfortunately. We compared it visually, looked identical, specs sounded identical, and it put up with the same abuse over an extended period of time (I'm still, 10 years later, picking bits of concrete out of its air holes). I'll backtrack then and say "it's as good as the offering from their much more expensive stable mate, to the extent my daily use with it was exactly the same". Their QA might be lower then, so not sure whether it's a glowing recommendation of all their units, or just I won the drill-lottery. Will caveat and say this wasn't a bog-standard entry level drill - it was pretty much B&D's top of the line from their offering at the time.
Grazester 6y ago
When I was a teen back in the 90s working on my dad's boat I discovered this.Started looking at Black and Decker differently as a result.

nabla9 6y ago

If you are pro, there seems to be only Fein, Makita and Hilti. Every other brand is just 'who cares'.

tinco 6y ago
Except that pro's also use festool, bosch, dewalt and milwaukee. How is Makita at another level from DeWalt in any way?
blhack 6y ago
I'm not sure what you mean by "pro" but many/most construction workers I see working use milwaukee tools. I don't think I'v ever seen fein in the wild.
- brodouevencode 6y ago
  You see Fein around sometimes with finish carpentry. The drills are excellent.

seph-reed 6y ago

Ryobi is barely mentioned, but is definitely the most popular amongst the people I work with. Generally because it's volunteer stuff and everything gets broken so there's no point in getting something extra nice.

brodouevencode 6y ago
I know contractors that use Ryobi because if it gets ripped off, broken, or lost it's nothing to replace. Site theft is tragically a too common thing when the economy sucks, like now.

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