5 ms·

>value/$ of these phones are horrendous Sounds like you value the open/libre aspect at $0. Not everyone feels the same way: Those phones are for people who va

by na85 6y ago

>value/$ of these phones are horrendous Sounds like you value the open/libre aspect at $0. Not everyone feels the same way: Those phones are for people who value the replaceable battery and libre stack at $x where x > 0.

adamc 6y ago
Seems more like $X >> 0.
Sebb767 6y ago
Sure, there's a market for these phones and I absolutely do not speak for everyone :) Still, I can get a Samsung Galaxy A20e for 150€ right now, which has about the same specs (actually slightly better) and spend two hours to get Lineage on it. My point is, I do value my privacy a lot, even to the point of running my phone without GApps (which drops a lot of features), and I think these projects are absolutely awesome, but with their current offering those phones are simply not a general solution to someone with a budget.
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  Your cheap Samsung phones are not running open firmware with mainline Linux, nor have hardware kill switches. A PinePhone/Librem 5 will also always be capable of running emacs/golang etc. which is not easily doable on Android if termux isn't possible anymore.
  - Sebb767 6y ago
    A rooted Android will probably still be able to run termux and most other software. But fair point.
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    > A PinePhone/Librem 5 will also always be capable of running emacs/golang etc. which is not easily doable on Android if termux isn't possible anymore. So can a phone running Lineage. The thing blocking termux is a config file; any phone that isn't locked down can handle it. You're not getting all of the openness for free, but you can get a lot of it for free.
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      I think it's important to point out that you'll always rely on proprietary blobs and generally hostile hardware that way. For now it's a config. As these things progress and get more locked down with each release in the name of security, it's going to be harder and harder and I don't want to scramble the moment it is practically impossible. I'd rather push for a free, open, libre hardware now so that the polish is there when there's no alternative.
      - Dylan16807 6y ago
        > As these things progress and get more locked down with each release in the name of security If that actually happens. I haven't seen any downward trend of LineageOS. I haven't seen any downward trend of Samsung hardware.
        AsyncAwait 6y ago
        I have certainly seen a much longer lag between a phone release that is not a Pixel and it being rootable+able to run Lineage compared to the Cyanogen days. I've also noticed that nowdays, few phones are able to run more than one newer major Android version ahead because the OEM will simply not release the firmware needed to run newer versions and Lineage doesn't have the capacity to update/release their own firmware rebased against the latest Android, (I am talking about things such as the radio firmware, OnePlus is a famous example I know of).
thayne 6y ago
The most I've ever paid for a phone is $300. I value open/libre more than $0, but not more than I value the phone itself.
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  These phones are for people willing to push the boundaries of free software and early adopters. This is for the people who ran early GNU stuff in the 90s, not the ones who said, "well, I can get a more polished toolset from <insert commercial vendor here>"

by na85 6y ago

adamc 6y ago

Seems more like $X >> 0.

Sebb767 6y ago

Sure, there's a market for these phones and I absolutely do not speak for everyone :) Still, I can get a Samsung Galaxy A20e for 150€ right now, which has about the same specs (actually slightly better) and spend two hours to get Lineage on it. My point is, I do value my privacy a lot, even to the point of running my phone without GApps (which drops a lot of features), and I think these projects are absolutely awesome, but with their current offering those phones are simply not a general solution to someone with a budget.

AsyncAwait 6y ago
Your cheap Samsung phones are not running open firmware with mainline Linux, nor have hardware kill switches. A PinePhone/Librem 5 will also always be capable of running emacs/golang etc. which is not easily doable on Android if termux isn't possible anymore.
- Sebb767 6y ago
  A rooted Android will probably still be able to run termux and most other software. But fair point.
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  > A PinePhone/Librem 5 will also always be capable of running emacs/golang etc. which is not easily doable on Android if termux isn't possible anymore. So can a phone running Lineage. The thing blocking termux is a config file; any phone that isn't locked down can handle it. You're not getting all of the openness for free, but you can get a lot of it for free.
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    I think it's important to point out that you'll always rely on proprietary blobs and generally hostile hardware that way. For now it's a config. As these things progress and get more locked down with each release in the name of security, it's going to be harder and harder and I don't want to scramble the moment it is practically impossible. I'd rather push for a free, open, libre hardware now so that the polish is there when there's no alternative.
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      > As these things progress and get more locked down with each release in the name of security If that actually happens. I haven't seen any downward trend of LineageOS. I haven't seen any downward trend of Samsung hardware.
      - AsyncAwait 6y ago
        I have certainly seen a much longer lag between a phone release that is not a Pixel and it being rootable+able to run Lineage compared to the Cyanogen days. I've also noticed that nowdays, few phones are able to run more than one newer major Android version ahead because the OEM will simply not release the firmware needed to run newer versions and Lineage doesn't have the capacity to update/release their own firmware rebased against the latest Android, (I am talking about things such as the radio firmware, OnePlus is a famous example I know of).

thayne 6y ago

The most I've ever paid for a phone is $300. I value open/libre more than $0, but not more than I value the phone itself.

AsyncAwait 6y ago
These phones are for people willing to push the boundaries of free software and early adopters. This is for the people who ran early GNU stuff in the 90s, not the ones who said, "well, I can get a more polished toolset from <insert commercial vendor here>"