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This is part of a broader problem. Many "apps" from WhatsApp to Zoom are treated as public spaces by citizens. But, legally the app-space is closer to a priva

This is part of a broader problem. Many "apps" from WhatsApp to Zoom are treated as public spaces by citizens. But, legally the app-space is closer to a private space. This creates a mismatch between reality and expectations. (Zuckerberg can delete his chat history and you could not until Europe passed legislation forcing Facebook to do so.) I suffered the "Windows only" of gubernamental applications that excluded Linux users from using them. I see a new wave of iPhone/Android apps, WhatsApp/Twitter official accounts, etc. creating the same monopolistic synergy where the government decides what apps the citizens have to install and what Operating Systems to use. The abuse of monopolies is not fight against but government officials take sides and choose which monopolies to grow. Finally, a point missed in the comments: WhatsApp is an American company. The misalignment between Europe and the USA has grown the recent years meanwhile the technological dependence of Europe towards the USA has increased. That will not end well. The USA is in a position to shutdown all the technological infrastructure of Europe (AWS, Google, Facebook, Azure, ...) and to openly spy its citizens. When the two blocks were in more friendly terms that was seen as acceptable, today that is creating an uneasy feeling. As an European citizen I do not feel safe with such an American oversight of my private and job-related activities. And, this is the most important point, when citizens feel threatened they will react or over-react to the situation. The USA has not been a trustworthy partner for some time. And ,the rise of TikTok and other Chinese apps are bringing that fear to public attention. The solution is trivially easy and has existed for long: open standards. Mail has been around as long as the Internet and proven its value, the same applies to the World Wide Web. The only reason for the rise of apps is that companies see them as a good way of lock-in customers, gather data and increase influence. All that reasons are bad for the economy, for the freedom of countries and individuals. Open standards should be pushed as a leveling field for competing companies, as a form to increase freedom of expressions and communication and to avoid single-points-of-faiulre that risk big parts of the economy. I hope for a return to sanity and open standards. The alternative is heavy regulated monopolies, no government is going to allow this situation to go for long, like the telecommunications industry. And, that does not work so well.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
>The USA is in a position to shutdown all the technological infrastructure of Europe (AWS, Google, Facebook, Azure, ...) and to openly spy its citizens OK, and what can we do about that? We build our own successful cars, we build our own successful planes but it seems like when it comes to building highly scalable world dominating software we are powerless even though our universities churn out tons of talented CS engineers and researchers. What does the US do right that we do wrong here? Besides paying our devs worse.
- vbezhenar 6y ago
  I thought that in US salary is significantly higher than in EU. Probably that's the main differentiator.
  - fennecfoxen 6y ago
    Can confirm, moved from London (while it was still EU) to NYC and literally doubled my pay
    - yulaow 6y ago
      Ironic considering I would _at_least_ double my pay just moving to London (from north Italy, of course col is very different unless you live in Milan which is comparable to London but still with worse pay).
  - dijit 6y ago
    It tends to be a fabrication of people miscalculating. You look at the total income sum "Wow!, 120k is twice 60k!" and you judge based on that. It's similar to items appearing cheaper in the US because they do not include taxes, salaries "the sum" does not accurately reflect the quality of life. The number is higher but it doesn't reflect purchasing power accurately. It's hard to explain, but I did these calculations a whole bunch of times because I keep considering moving to the US, but ultimately it comes down to: A) Having a huge benefits package (which is not optional for an employer to avoid paying out for in the EU, especially Scandinavian countries)-- this includes insurances for loss of employment or sickness, but also pension contributions which are actually illegal to avoid in most European countries (5% matching contribution being pretty standard). B) QoL differences up to and including healthcare, paid vacation time, paid sickness leave and paid parental leave. (from 2w-480d depending on country) C) Childcare. D) Taxes (and an accountant's time to file them on your behalf, this is assumed to be a minor cost) Ultimately I did the math, and I'd have to dig it out again, but unless you're 20-30, very healthy, childless and a low-risk taker that enjoys driving: it is unlikely that you'll be better off working in IT in the USA. Obviously there's 10x developers who would out-earn me there though. If you want to earn large sums of money in a European country, that can still be done in Ireland or Switzerland. FWIW: in my calculations 120k USD in Los Angeles was roughly equivalent to 55k EUR in Stockholm (50k SEK/mo)

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

>The USA is in a position to shutdown all the technological infrastructure of Europe (AWS, Google, Facebook, Azure, ...) and to openly spy its citizens OK, and what can we do about that? We build our own successful cars, we build our own successful planes but it seems like when it comes to building highly scalable world dominating software we are powerless even though our universities churn out tons of talented CS engineers and researchers. What does the US do right that we do wrong here? Besides paying our devs worse.

vbezhenar 6y ago
I thought that in US salary is significantly higher than in EU. Probably that's the main differentiator.
- fennecfoxen 6y ago
  Can confirm, moved from London (while it was still EU) to NYC and literally doubled my pay
  - yulaow 6y ago
    Ironic considering I would _at_least_ double my pay just moving to London (from north Italy, of course col is very different unless you live in Milan which is comparable to London but still with worse pay).
- dijit 6y ago
  It tends to be a fabrication of people miscalculating. You look at the total income sum "Wow!, 120k is twice 60k!" and you judge based on that. It's similar to items appearing cheaper in the US because they do not include taxes, salaries "the sum" does not accurately reflect the quality of life. The number is higher but it doesn't reflect purchasing power accurately. It's hard to explain, but I did these calculations a whole bunch of times because I keep considering moving to the US, but ultimately it comes down to: A) Having a huge benefits package (which is not optional for an employer to avoid paying out for in the EU, especially Scandinavian countries)-- this includes insurances for loss of employment or sickness, but also pension contributions which are actually illegal to avoid in most European countries (5% matching contribution being pretty standard). B) QoL differences up to and including healthcare, paid vacation time, paid sickness leave and paid parental leave. (from 2w-480d depending on country) C) Childcare. D) Taxes (and an accountant's time to file them on your behalf, this is assumed to be a minor cost) Ultimately I did the math, and I'd have to dig it out again, but unless you're 20-30, very healthy, childless and a low-risk taker that enjoys driving: it is unlikely that you'll be better off working in IT in the USA. Obviously there's 10x developers who would out-earn me there though. If you want to earn large sums of money in a European country, that can still be done in Ireland or Switzerland. FWIW: in my calculations 120k USD in Los Angeles was roughly equivalent to 55k EUR in Stockholm (50k SEK/mo)