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My favorite (and only) podcasting app. I hope someone who works at Google reads this and flag it internally. This quote really sums up how ridiculous Google is

by ipsum2 6y ago

My favorite (and only) podcasting app. I hope someone who works at Google reads this and flag it internally. This quote really sums up how ridiculous Google is being: > What Google is asking of Podcast Addict would be comparable to Google asking a web browser app to remove references to all the websites and social media posts that reference the coronavirus unless the reference comes from an official government entity or public health organization.

Crosseye_Jack 6y ago
> asking a web browser app to remove references to all the websites and social media posts Except usually a web browser doesn't include a index of sites, You go to a another site (Google/Bing) for that. If a browser does include "recommended sites" the landing pages of those sites best keep to Google's and Apples rules. For an extreme example, If Firefox was promoting PornHub on the new tab page we could understand why Google or Apple would tell them to cut it out, but it doesn't stop you from visiting the site. I'm not saying I agree with what Google have done here (IMO they should re-instate Podcast Addict), Just that I can see why Google could think "recommended podcasts" and podcast indexes come under the "included content" of an app. EDIT: As others has said here, It's more like Google banning YouTube because it contains video's about covid 19 which don't come from "approved sources" (Though Google did demonetize people for talking about it and de-rank non "approved sources")
- robkop 6y ago
  I would disagree in saying it's like Google banning YouTube as YouTube both hosts the actual data as well as filters the data that gets put onto the platform.
  - Crosseye_Jack 6y ago
    Yeah podcast app's rarely host the content themselves (though some do mirror the files to their own CDN's and Spotify have recently started doing exclusive podcasts). It was more that Podcast app's come with a curated list of podcasts and a search feature backed into the application then the actual hosting of the content.
- lstamour 6y ago
  Podcast apps commonly host indexes for the same reason Google or Bing or another search engine ships with most browsers. Users don’t know, and don’t care, about URLs, especially RSS feed URLs. They (we) just want to type in something and tap on the thing they wanted, instant gratification. Most apps generally don’t spider or find their own content, instead they re-index public indexes, the most common of which is Apple’s Podcasts directory formerly from iTunes. As pointed out, Google also has a directory. It’s a convenience for listeners to more easily find shows. I say this because I remember the days before Apple’s Podcast directory when it was often easier to Google and listen in your browser or copy it on to a music player via drag and drop than it was to remember to launch an app that would do the downloading for you. (Partly because you still had to remember to connect and/or sync the player, and worry about disk space etc.) Nowadays, subscribing and listening via phone is so easy that I probably download 100x the shows I used to and barely listen to 5%. These days I use the apps as sources of possible content to listen to, but I would be really annoyed if some of the content disappeared with no warning, particularly if it was one daily/weekly episode that covered COVID.
- bnjms 6y ago
  So it’s like Google banning a Bing, DDG, or (...) Google search app app for Indexing sites that do not follow approved guidelines. OP’s point stands without modification.
  - Crosseye_Jack 6y ago
    But a search app isn't directly a web browser (Though browsing many be a secondary function). But many adult content search apps have been removed from app stores.
    - huffmsa 6y ago
      With the Advent of the omnibar, they are necessarily search engines
      - Crosseye_Jack 6y ago
        An argument there could be that the user still gets to choose which search engine the omnibar gets sent to. I don't agree with Googles decision (I strongly disagree with it). Just stating that under the letter of the law (of the app stores policies) I can see why app stores feel they have the power to govern the search results in such apps (iirc web browsers have a exception to the clause - /me goes to double check Googles policy on web browsers - brb) EDIT: With a quick 5 min glance at the policy it looks like Google have been extremely heavy handed because "Any apps referencing COVID-19, or related terms, in any form in their metadata will only be approved for distribution in the Play Store if they are published, commissioned or authorised by one of these entities." But podcasts in their search couldn't be in their play store meta data. (Still digging)
        cft 6y ago
        https://twitter.com/PodcastAddict/status/1261805845735604224?s=20 https://twitter.com/PodcastAddict/status/1261805845735604224... Nothing in the metadata. Pure evil.
    - bnjms 6y ago
- PurpleRamen 6y ago
  It's more like Google self-banning Google (or Bing) for displaying non-approved content. Searchengines index external sources and display it to the user, which is the same what a Podcast-app does, isn't it?
- nisa 6y ago
  YouTube constantly recommends me COVID-19 conspiracy videos since I dared to watch one that was popular here in Germany. Basically on every video I watch I have now german conspiracy videos as recommendations. I did neither like the video or did I subscribe the channel. It's beyond fucked up what Google is doing.
  - pxtail 6y ago
    If you want to watch something one-off, some interesting tidbit outside of your curated feed then doing it in incognito mode is required, otherwise, as you noted you are doomed.
    - crottypeter 6y ago
      If you find it here and delete it, I think it will cease to influence your recommended videos. https://www.youtube.com/feed/history https://www.youtube.com/feed/history
      - toofy 6y ago
        We shouldn’t have to jump through these kinds of hoops. Their recommendation engine is smart enough to discern between a one off video watch and a genuine interest, but youtube gets stuck on recommending conspiracyland videos. It’s at the point where I just ignore the entire section as if it were ads. I want a tool to work without having to sift through hundreds and hundreds of videos and try to guess which one caused the drift into crazy town.
      - kyteland 6y ago
        I have YouTube history turned off along with other publicly visible tracking and this kind of nonsense still happens to me. Their algo is working on more data than just what they make visible to the user. "The only winning move is not to play."
        kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
        You have to evict all Google tracking cookies. Just disabling a few features won't cut it.
- dingo_bat 6y ago
  What about google podcasts which literally lists and plays the same podcasts about covid?
- dspillett 6y ago
  > > asking a web browser app to remove references to all the websites and social media posts > Except usually a web browser doesn't include a index of sites, You go to a another site (Google/Bing) for that. OK then, it is like asking a search/video/advertising company to remove all such references from its search, and hosted videos, and other properties, and banning their apps & services until they do. I don't see the youtube app being banned for all the C19 rubbish they are currently hosting and indexing. Or the Google news app for the C19 rubish it is indexing and actively pushing to some people (depending on what the relevant sacred algorithm, hallowed be its name, decides who should see). What they appear to be expecting Podcast Addict to do is exactly what they themselves have said they can't do. Either it is not possible (this is the case IMO) in which case it is not fair to expect it of PcA, or it is possible and Google are hypocrites of the highest order in this matter. EDIT: after reading the rest of TFA... Even worse "additionally, Google isn’t applying these same rules to its own podcast app – Google Podcasts" - we don't even need to argue service equivalence to show that as hypocritical. Of course this is most likely to be an undesirable side effect of some automated system. I'll give Google that benefit of the doubt if they reinstate PcA immediately and apologise for their cock-up.
  - kwhitefoot 6y ago
    > I'll give Google that benefit of the doubt if they reinstate PcA immediately and apologise for their cock-up. Why? It's not as if no one in Google knew that this would happen. I don't think Grace Hopper's 'Better to ask forgiveness than permission' applies here. Google knew what they were doing when they instituted the rule and their behaviour suggests malice aforethought.
    - robertlagrant 6y ago
      https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/06/19/forgive/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/06/19/forgive/
- kwhitefoot 6y ago
  > If a browser does include "recommended sites" the landing pages of those sites best keep to Google's and Apples rules. You mean sites like the BBC? That's where all the COVID-19 related content I have listened to with Podcast Addict came from. Is the BBC supposed to kowtow to Google's self serving rules and propaganda?
random32840 6y ago
More like: > What Google is asking of Podcast Addict would be comparable to Google asking Google to remove all references to the websites and social media posts that reference the coronavirus unless the reference comes from an official government entity or public health organization.
jimmySixDOF 6y ago
You can try Pocket Casts [1] who are my favorite and only Of course that's assuming that they don't get the same play store treatment from GOOG It's a little too ironic that Goggle, who has countless times made the argument that they aren't responsible/liable for what their users do on a service ("honestly senator its just a platform we provide"), and then here they are the ones calling for some downstream accountability. Not that I agree at all with the logic- you may as well say that a bank is responsible(liable) for the use of any money they lend out ;} -- but its the hypocrisy that stinks to high heaven here! [1] https://www.pocketcasts.com/ https://www.pocketcasts.com/
- TomMarius 6y ago
  Maybe this is the effect of continuously putting liability on them? You should account the timeline into your thinking, it's not happening at the same time.
  - nyolfen 6y ago
    it's the effect of trying to avoid regulation by self-regulating. after trump got elected, one of the big media narratives was that it happened because of misinformation ("fake news"); the response has been censorship by platform owners to avoid the charge in the future and any potential federal action
    - TomMarius 6y ago
      Why do you think so? How do you know it's not the response to multiple attempts to put liability for content on platform owners like Google and Facebook? How do you know they did not respond strongly because most governments have declared state of crisis, which means more severe punishment, and punishment of things that would be OK otherwise (and of course nobody knows what that actually means, let alone all around the world)?
      - nyolfen 6y ago
        there can be more than one reason, but the censorship began in earnest after trump's election and before covid.[1] this isn't even a controversial position and i'm nowhere near the only person to have remarked upon it. [1] https://www.npr.org/2018/08/06/636030043/youtube-apple-and-facebook-ban-infowars-which-decries-mega-purge https://www.npr.org/2018/08/06/636030043/youtube-apple-and-f...
zouhair 6y ago
I have yet to find better then AntennaPod[0] [0]: https://github.com/AntennaPod/AntennaPod/ https://github.com/AntennaPod/AntennaPod/
- mdaniel 6y ago
  I'm glad it works for you. I actually tried to switch in an effort to "more FOSS" my life and ended up compiling a concrete list of usability problems that made using Antenna Pod frustrating for me. And that "usability" word has traditionally been the difference in my life between a commercial product and a FOSS one * Podcast Addict offers auto skip intro seconds, auto skip outro seconds -- and the seconds setting is per podcast * P.A. offers "stop after episode" if the sleep timer is active, and also allows not marking the episode as played if that "artificial stop" is active * in Antenna Pod, "delete and remove from queue" does not clear it from the now playing bar * the "auto download" appears to be opt-in, not opt-out, meaning one must set it for all 85 podcasts * the bamboo menu doesn't include "delete" for an episode * and a few more UI nits that bugged me This isn't a rant, but rather an observation that the Podcast Addict developer wakes up every day thinking about how to make P.A. better, and that doesn't seem to be true for Antenna Pod
101404 6y ago
And who says that Google won't do that? Now is the perfect time to get more censorship in place, be it for commercial or policial reasons.
ehnto 6y ago
I am not a fan of app stores due to these kinds of ecosystem issues, and could never find any good web only podcast players, so I just made my own. It's public but it only really has podcasts I like in the directory.
- scarface74 6y ago
  Overcast has a web player.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ptx 6y ago
AntennaPod[1] (my favorite and only) is open source and distributed through F-Droid, so it can't be arbitrily removed by Google. (And if for some reason it were to be removed from F-Froid, you can compile and install it yourself.) [1] https://f-droid.org/app/de.danoeh.antennapod https://f-droid.org/app/de.danoeh.antennapod
38rurhrjd 6y ago
At what point do industries just band together and develop their own app store? Sure third party app stores have far less visibility, but if all the major entertainment groups and content categories could agree on a single app store then it's hard to imagine them failing.

by ipsum2 6y ago

Crosseye_Jack 6y ago

> asking a web browser app to remove references to all the websites and social media posts Except usually a web browser doesn't include a index of sites, You go to a another site (Google/Bing) for that. If a browser does include "recommended sites" the landing pages of those sites best keep to Google's and Apples rules. For an extreme example, If Firefox was promoting PornHub on the new tab page we could understand why Google or Apple would tell them to cut it out, but it doesn't stop you from visiting the site. I'm not saying I agree with what Google have done here (IMO they should re-instate Podcast Addict), Just that I can see why Google could think "recommended podcasts" and podcast indexes come under the "included content" of an app. EDIT: As others has said here, It's more like Google banning YouTube because it contains video's about covid 19 which don't come from "approved sources" (Though Google did demonetize people for talking about it and de-rank non "approved sources")

robkop 6y ago
I would disagree in saying it's like Google banning YouTube as YouTube both hosts the actual data as well as filters the data that gets put onto the platform.
- Crosseye_Jack 6y ago
  Yeah podcast app's rarely host the content themselves (though some do mirror the files to their own CDN's and Spotify have recently started doing exclusive podcasts). It was more that Podcast app's come with a curated list of podcasts and a search feature backed into the application then the actual hosting of the content.
lstamour 6y ago
Podcast apps commonly host indexes for the same reason Google or Bing or another search engine ships with most browsers. Users don’t know, and don’t care, about URLs, especially RSS feed URLs. They (we) just want to type in something and tap on the thing they wanted, instant gratification. Most apps generally don’t spider or find their own content, instead they re-index public indexes, the most common of which is Apple’s Podcasts directory formerly from iTunes. As pointed out, Google also has a directory. It’s a convenience for listeners to more easily find shows. I say this because I remember the days before Apple’s Podcast directory when it was often easier to Google and listen in your browser or copy it on to a music player via drag and drop than it was to remember to launch an app that would do the downloading for you. (Partly because you still had to remember to connect and/or sync the player, and worry about disk space etc.) Nowadays, subscribing and listening via phone is so easy that I probably download 100x the shows I used to and barely listen to 5%. These days I use the apps as sources of possible content to listen to, but I would be really annoyed if some of the content disappeared with no warning, particularly if it was one daily/weekly episode that covered COVID.
bnjms 6y ago
So it’s like Google banning a Bing, DDG, or (...) Google search app app for Indexing sites that do not follow approved guidelines. OP’s point stands without modification.
- Crosseye_Jack 6y ago
  But a search app isn't directly a web browser (Though browsing many be a secondary function). But many adult content search apps have been removed from app stores.
  - huffmsa 6y ago
    With the Advent of the omnibar, they are necessarily search engines
    - Crosseye_Jack 6y ago
      An argument there could be that the user still gets to choose which search engine the omnibar gets sent to. I don't agree with Googles decision (I strongly disagree with it). Just stating that under the letter of the law (of the app stores policies) I can see why app stores feel they have the power to govern the search results in such apps (iirc web browsers have a exception to the clause - /me goes to double check Googles policy on web browsers - brb) EDIT: With a quick 5 min glance at the policy it looks like Google have been extremely heavy handed because "Any apps referencing COVID-19, or related terms, in any form in their metadata will only be approved for distribution in the Play Store if they are published, commissioned or authorised by one of these entities." But podcasts in their search couldn't be in their play store meta data. (Still digging)
      - cft 6y ago
        https://twitter.com/PodcastAddict/status/1261805845735604224?s=20 https://twitter.com/PodcastAddict/status/1261805845735604224... Nothing in the metadata. Pure evil.
  - bnjms 6y ago
PurpleRamen 6y ago
It's more like Google self-banning Google (or Bing) for displaying non-approved content. Searchengines index external sources and display it to the user, which is the same what a Podcast-app does, isn't it?
nisa 6y ago
YouTube constantly recommends me COVID-19 conspiracy videos since I dared to watch one that was popular here in Germany. Basically on every video I watch I have now german conspiracy videos as recommendations. I did neither like the video or did I subscribe the channel. It's beyond fucked up what Google is doing.
- pxtail 6y ago
  If you want to watch something one-off, some interesting tidbit outside of your curated feed then doing it in incognito mode is required, otherwise, as you noted you are doomed.
  - crottypeter 6y ago
    If you find it here and delete it, I think it will cease to influence your recommended videos. https://www.youtube.com/feed/history https://www.youtube.com/feed/history
    - toofy 6y ago
      We shouldn’t have to jump through these kinds of hoops. Their recommendation engine is smart enough to discern between a one off video watch and a genuine interest, but youtube gets stuck on recommending conspiracyland videos. It’s at the point where I just ignore the entire section as if it were ads. I want a tool to work without having to sift through hundreds and hundreds of videos and try to guess which one caused the drift into crazy town.
    - kyteland 6y ago
      I have YouTube history turned off along with other publicly visible tracking and this kind of nonsense still happens to me. Their algo is working on more data than just what they make visible to the user. "The only winning move is not to play."
      - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
        You have to evict all Google tracking cookies. Just disabling a few features won't cut it.
dingo_bat 6y ago
What about google podcasts which literally lists and plays the same podcasts about covid?
dspillett 6y ago
> > asking a web browser app to remove references to all the websites and social media posts > Except usually a web browser doesn't include a index of sites, You go to a another site (Google/Bing) for that. OK then, it is like asking a search/video/advertising company to remove all such references from its search, and hosted videos, and other properties, and banning their apps & services until they do. I don't see the youtube app being banned for all the C19 rubbish they are currently hosting and indexing. Or the Google news app for the C19 rubish it is indexing and actively pushing to some people (depending on what the relevant sacred algorithm, hallowed be its name, decides who should see). What they appear to be expecting Podcast Addict to do is exactly what they themselves have said they can't do. Either it is not possible (this is the case IMO) in which case it is not fair to expect it of PcA, or it is possible and Google are hypocrites of the highest order in this matter. EDIT: after reading the rest of TFA... Even worse "additionally, Google isn’t applying these same rules to its own podcast app – Google Podcasts" - we don't even need to argue service equivalence to show that as hypocritical. Of course this is most likely to be an undesirable side effect of some automated system. I'll give Google that benefit of the doubt if they reinstate PcA immediately and apologise for their cock-up.
- kwhitefoot 6y ago
  > I'll give Google that benefit of the doubt if they reinstate PcA immediately and apologise for their cock-up. Why? It's not as if no one in Google knew that this would happen. I don't think Grace Hopper's 'Better to ask forgiveness than permission' applies here. Google knew what they were doing when they instituted the rule and their behaviour suggests malice aforethought.
  - robertlagrant 6y ago
    https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/06/19/forgive/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/06/19/forgive/
kwhitefoot 6y ago
> If a browser does include "recommended sites" the landing pages of those sites best keep to Google's and Apples rules. You mean sites like the BBC? That's where all the COVID-19 related content I have listened to with Podcast Addict came from. Is the BBC supposed to kowtow to Google's self serving rules and propaganda?

random32840 6y ago

More like: > What Google is asking of Podcast Addict would be comparable to Google asking Google to remove all references to the websites and social media posts that reference the coronavirus unless the reference comes from an official government entity or public health organization.

jimmySixDOF 6y ago

You can try Pocket Casts [1] who are my favorite and only Of course that's assuming that they don't get the same play store treatment from GOOG It's a little too ironic that Goggle, who has countless times made the argument that they aren't responsible/liable for what their users do on a service ("honestly senator its just a platform we provide"), and then here they are the ones calling for some downstream accountability. Not that I agree at all with the logic- you may as well say that a bank is responsible(liable) for the use of any money they lend out ;} -- but its the hypocrisy that stinks to high heaven here! [1] https://www.pocketcasts.com/ https://www.pocketcasts.com/

TomMarius 6y ago
Maybe this is the effect of continuously putting liability on them? You should account the timeline into your thinking, it's not happening at the same time.
- nyolfen 6y ago
  it's the effect of trying to avoid regulation by self-regulating. after trump got elected, one of the big media narratives was that it happened because of misinformation ("fake news"); the response has been censorship by platform owners to avoid the charge in the future and any potential federal action
  - TomMarius 6y ago
    Why do you think so? How do you know it's not the response to multiple attempts to put liability for content on platform owners like Google and Facebook? How do you know they did not respond strongly because most governments have declared state of crisis, which means more severe punishment, and punishment of things that would be OK otherwise (and of course nobody knows what that actually means, let alone all around the world)?
    - nyolfen 6y ago
      there can be more than one reason, but the censorship began in earnest after trump's election and before covid.[1] this isn't even a controversial position and i'm nowhere near the only person to have remarked upon it. [1] https://www.npr.org/2018/08/06/636030043/youtube-apple-and-facebook-ban-infowars-which-decries-mega-purge https://www.npr.org/2018/08/06/636030043/youtube-apple-and-f...

zouhair 6y ago

I have yet to find better then AntennaPod[0] [0]: https://github.com/AntennaPod/AntennaPod/ https://github.com/AntennaPod/AntennaPod/

mdaniel 6y ago
I'm glad it works for you. I actually tried to switch in an effort to "more FOSS" my life and ended up compiling a concrete list of usability problems that made using Antenna Pod frustrating for me. And that "usability" word has traditionally been the difference in my life between a commercial product and a FOSS one * Podcast Addict offers auto skip intro seconds, auto skip outro seconds -- and the seconds setting is per podcast * P.A. offers "stop after episode" if the sleep timer is active, and also allows not marking the episode as played if that "artificial stop" is active * in Antenna Pod, "delete and remove from queue" does not clear it from the now playing bar * the "auto download" appears to be opt-in, not opt-out, meaning one must set it for all 85 podcasts * the bamboo menu doesn't include "delete" for an episode * and a few more UI nits that bugged me This isn't a rant, but rather an observation that the Podcast Addict developer wakes up every day thinking about how to make P.A. better, and that doesn't seem to be true for Antenna Pod

101404 6y ago

And who says that Google won't do that? Now is the perfect time to get more censorship in place, be it for commercial or policial reasons.

ehnto 6y ago

I am not a fan of app stores due to these kinds of ecosystem issues, and could never find any good web only podcast players, so I just made my own. It's public but it only really has podcasts I like in the directory.

scarface74 6y ago
Overcast has a web player.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ptx 6y ago

AntennaPod[1] (my favorite and only) is open source and distributed through F-Droid, so it can't be arbitrily removed by Google. (And if for some reason it were to be removed from F-Froid, you can compile and install it yourself.) [1] https://f-droid.org/app/de.danoeh.antennapod https://f-droid.org/app/de.danoeh.antennapod

38rurhrjd 6y ago

At what point do industries just band together and develop their own app store? Sure third party app stores have far less visibility, but if all the major entertainment groups and content categories could agree on a single app store then it's hard to imagine them failing.