6 ms·

It also subsidizes the tuition you have to pay.

by trianglem 6y ago

xenihn 6y ago
You mean the tuition that has increased in order to keep pace with administrator salaries?
- gamblor956 6y ago
  No, the point was that administrator salaries are not the primary reason for tuition increases. Running a college is expensive. Everything costs more, including the blue-collar work force, so tuition correspondingly costs more. Public schools must also deal with drastic cuts in state support--the UC system, for example, only receives 10% of its budget from the state of CA (but used to receive more than 90% of its budget from the state).
  - ido 6y ago
    I teach part-time in a private for-profit college in Germany (in which German-citizen students get up to half their tuition paid by the government) & tuition is comparable to the least expensive public state universities in the US. I don't know how the numbers work out but I suspect you could run a private college in the US for less than the mid to high 5-figure $ per student per year they seem to charge.
    - greedo 6y ago
      But then the school would be ranked as a low cost institution, and carry a stigma that many parents and students would want to avoid. There's a reason USC is raising tuition right now. Signaling that it's worth it... My daughter is going to school in the fall, and I ran into this pricing strategy immediately. Her choice of college started tuition at over $50k/year, but offers "scholarships." These aren't Pell Grant etc, but scholarships that apply only to this institution. You get a scholarship for touring the campus. You get another scholarship for being a state resident. Eventually, you're effective tuition rate is cut in half. This strategy is brilliant because it works on 3 axis; first, the parents feel like they're getting a good deal (since the effect of anchoring the tuition at $50k is hard to resist). Second, the school can appear elite since it charges a high tuition. Third, the student (and parents) feel good because their kid "earned" scholarships.
deathgrips 6y ago
Gee, this is what subsidized looks like? Must be a lot cheaper than the tuition in other countries that don't have nearly as many international students :)
- mschuster91 6y ago
  In Germany all students including non-EU foreigners don't have to pay any tuition generally (with the exceptions being Saxony and Baden-Württemberg, per https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studiengeb%C3%BChren_in_Deutschland#%C3%9Cbersicht_%C3%BCber_Geb%C3%BChrenfreiheit_und_Geb%C3%BChren_in_den_deutschen_Bundesl%C3%A4ndern https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studiengeb%C3%BChren_in_Deutsc...). The key difference is: our universities do not run expensive world-class sports teams (while there are amateur things such as racing, these do have an educational focus as they tend to be a side gig of the mechanics courses) and at the same time are properly financed by the state.
  - deathgrips 6y ago
    That sounds like a great system. From purely selfish motives, the state will reap more taxes from college educated citizens than they would otherwise, so literally investing in public colleges makes financial sense. America chose to invest in education debt (and modern day indentured servitude) instead.
    - mschuster91 6y ago
      > From purely selfish motives, the state will reap more taxes from college educated citizens than they would otherwise, so literally investing in public colleges makes financial sense. On the other hand, college educated citizens are less likely to enter the army out of desperation (so no more cheap replaceable cannon fodder for the endless wars) or to agree to usurious 20%+ APR payday loans or end up in private prisons or work as replaceable cogs in Amazon warehouses, "gig economy", farming, meatpacking or whatever else exploitative labor market. This costs the rich elite donating to politicians actual money in profits. Incentives for politicians are not aligned with the targets for a better society, that is the core issue.
dntbnmpls 6y ago
Then why does tuition increase so much every year even though numbers of international students increases every year?
- IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
  That's because a large part of university tuition has historically been paid by bees. And, for unknown reasons, bees have been dying off at a higher rate than the growth in international students in the last few years.
notaphilosopher 6y ago
It also subsidizes largess such as unnecessary buildings and retreats. University department managers treat budgets as signs of status, and try to build as large of org chart pyramids as possible. Source: I worked at a top 5 US university as an employee, on both the business and academic sides, for 7 years.

It also subsidizes the tuition you have to pay.

xenihn 6y ago

You mean the tuition that has increased in order to keep pace with administrator salaries?

gamblor956 6y ago
No, the point was that administrator salaries are not the primary reason for tuition increases. Running a college is expensive. Everything costs more, including the blue-collar work force, so tuition correspondingly costs more. Public schools must also deal with drastic cuts in state support--the UC system, for example, only receives 10% of its budget from the state of CA (but used to receive more than 90% of its budget from the state).
- ido 6y ago
  I teach part-time in a private for-profit college in Germany (in which German-citizen students get up to half their tuition paid by the government) & tuition is comparable to the least expensive public state universities in the US. I don't know how the numbers work out but I suspect you could run a private college in the US for less than the mid to high 5-figure $ per student per year they seem to charge.
  - greedo 6y ago
    But then the school would be ranked as a low cost institution, and carry a stigma that many parents and students would want to avoid. There's a reason USC is raising tuition right now. Signaling that it's worth it... My daughter is going to school in the fall, and I ran into this pricing strategy immediately. Her choice of college started tuition at over $50k/year, but offers "scholarships." These aren't Pell Grant etc, but scholarships that apply only to this institution. You get a scholarship for touring the campus. You get another scholarship for being a state resident. Eventually, you're effective tuition rate is cut in half. This strategy is brilliant because it works on 3 axis; first, the parents feel like they're getting a good deal (since the effect of anchoring the tuition at $50k is hard to resist). Second, the school can appear elite since it charges a high tuition. Third, the student (and parents) feel good because their kid "earned" scholarships.

deathgrips 6y ago

Gee, this is what subsidized looks like? Must be a lot cheaper than the tuition in other countries that don't have nearly as many international students :)

mschuster91 6y ago
In Germany all students including non-EU foreigners don't have to pay any tuition generally (with the exceptions being Saxony and Baden-Württemberg, per https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studiengeb%C3%BChren_in_Deutschland#%C3%9Cbersicht_%C3%BCber_Geb%C3%BChrenfreiheit_und_Geb%C3%BChren_in_den_deutschen_Bundesl%C3%A4ndern https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studiengeb%C3%BChren_in_Deutsc...). The key difference is: our universities do not run expensive world-class sports teams (while there are amateur things such as racing, these do have an educational focus as they tend to be a side gig of the mechanics courses) and at the same time are properly financed by the state.
- deathgrips 6y ago
  That sounds like a great system. From purely selfish motives, the state will reap more taxes from college educated citizens than they would otherwise, so literally investing in public colleges makes financial sense. America chose to invest in education debt (and modern day indentured servitude) instead.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    > From purely selfish motives, the state will reap more taxes from college educated citizens than they would otherwise, so literally investing in public colleges makes financial sense. On the other hand, college educated citizens are less likely to enter the army out of desperation (so no more cheap replaceable cannon fodder for the endless wars) or to agree to usurious 20%+ APR payday loans or end up in private prisons or work as replaceable cogs in Amazon warehouses, "gig economy", farming, meatpacking or whatever else exploitative labor market. This costs the rich elite donating to politicians actual money in profits. Incentives for politicians are not aligned with the targets for a better society, that is the core issue.

dntbnmpls 6y ago

Then why does tuition increase so much every year even though numbers of international students increases every year?

IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
That's because a large part of university tuition has historically been paid by bees. And, for unknown reasons, bees have been dying off at a higher rate than the growth in international students in the last few years.

notaphilosopher 6y ago

It also subsidizes largess such as unnecessary buildings and retreats. University department managers treat budgets as signs of status, and try to build as large of org chart pyramids as possible. Source: I worked at a top 5 US university as an employee, on both the business and academic sides, for 7 years.