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> Even before coronavirus, President Donald Trump's administration had been working to decrease the inflow of students from overseas Sometimes I wonder if the

> Even before coronavirus, President Donald Trump's administration had been working to decrease the inflow of students from overseas Sometimes I wonder if the U.S. is purposefully trying to move down in world rankings... I'm not sure why anyone would think it's a good idea to intentionally limit the opportunities to the best and hardest working people in the world; those opportunities will just spring up elsewhere instead. I have a theory that a society cannot maintain leading world standings without also leading in science and technology, and it's not long before the U.S. loses this (if it hasn't already). Most of the greatest recent technological advances are already driven by people born outside the U.S. that work within the country; it wouldn't surprise me if they decide that coming to the U.S. is just no longer worth the hassle.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Some Americans definitely argue that the US should invest less time and effort into maintaining its international image.
- WillPostForFood 6y ago
  Or they think it is ultimately better for the US international image to educate its own people.
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    International students are a funding source for US universities. They're a net positive if your objective is to educate your own people.
    - jerrya 6y ago
      I'm all for international students but when you say they are a net positive, are they competing with US students for admission slots? If they are, that would seem to put pressure on prices US students have to pay as well as make admission that much harder.
      - whatshisface 6y ago
        In a normal business, someone spending $20 for something that cost $10 to make would not decrease the availability for anyone else, because the company would be able to make two widgets for every one widget they bought. There's already something very fishy about the university system that anyone who can pay more than they cost isn't let in. Why do admission slots even exist?
        leetcrew 6y ago
        universities aren't aws nodes that can be instantly spun up to meet demand. it takes time (and possibly more land) to build new buildings and hire new teaching staff without compromising the quality of the education. the wealthiest institutions can afford to ignore ability to pay, but most need a certain fraction of their students to actually pay the full price.
        whatshisface 6y ago
        Most exclusive schools have been exclusive for several generations. There's no way to explain the scarcity of seats at Harvard by saying "they haven't had time to recruit new professors."
  - UncleMeat 6y ago
    Tons of international students stay in the US. They become "its own people".
scarface74 6y ago
The long history of fear of “them” in this country is all about prioritizing prejudices over economics.
- dylan604 6y ago
  It's not just this country though. Every society has used some sort of "them" to cast blame on. Even subsets of society have their own "them". I'm not a head shrinker, but just like religion helps certain people feel okay about unknowable/non-understood parts of life, some people are just more comfortable being able to blame their ills on "them" even if it's unfounded blame.
ralph84 6y ago
> the best and hardest working people in the world That's not the majority of international students in the US. It's those whose parents can afford to pay for them to study abroad.
- solveit 6y ago
  But a good proportion of the best and hardest working people in the world are international students in the US.
jmeister 6y ago
US pulled ahead of the rest of the world in STEM during the wars. The brain drain of scientists fleeing Europe - exemplified by Einstein and Von Neumann joining IAS in Princeton - set up US in a dominant position that has only gotten stronger over time. So it will take some time to lose that lead, and there will be push back from the immediate beneficiaries: DoD, national science labs, Tech sector. In fact some drastic parts of the recent immigration restriction plans were removed due to pressure from tech CEOs. In the meantime this is a golden opportunity for Canada. Toronto and Montreal already have world-class CS research cluster which they can build on, and attract scientists frustrated with anti-immigrant sentiments in the US and EU.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

Some Americans definitely argue that the US should invest less time and effort into maintaining its international image.

WillPostForFood 6y ago
Or they think it is ultimately better for the US international image to educate its own people.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  International students are a funding source for US universities. They're a net positive if your objective is to educate your own people.
  - jerrya 6y ago
    I'm all for international students but when you say they are a net positive, are they competing with US students for admission slots? If they are, that would seem to put pressure on prices US students have to pay as well as make admission that much harder.
    - whatshisface 6y ago
      In a normal business, someone spending $20 for something that cost $10 to make would not decrease the availability for anyone else, because the company would be able to make two widgets for every one widget they bought. There's already something very fishy about the university system that anyone who can pay more than they cost isn't let in. Why do admission slots even exist?
      - leetcrew 6y ago
        universities aren't aws nodes that can be instantly spun up to meet demand. it takes time (and possibly more land) to build new buildings and hire new teaching staff without compromising the quality of the education. the wealthiest institutions can afford to ignore ability to pay, but most need a certain fraction of their students to actually pay the full price.
        whatshisface 6y ago
        Most exclusive schools have been exclusive for several generations. There's no way to explain the scarcity of seats at Harvard by saying "they haven't had time to recruit new professors."
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  Tons of international students stay in the US. They become "its own people".

scarface74 6y ago

The long history of fear of “them” in this country is all about prioritizing prejudices over economics.

dylan604 6y ago
It's not just this country though. Every society has used some sort of "them" to cast blame on. Even subsets of society have their own "them". I'm not a head shrinker, but just like religion helps certain people feel okay about unknowable/non-understood parts of life, some people are just more comfortable being able to blame their ills on "them" even if it's unfounded blame.

ralph84 6y ago

> the best and hardest working people in the world That's not the majority of international students in the US. It's those whose parents can afford to pay for them to study abroad.

solveit 6y ago
But a good proportion of the best and hardest working people in the world are international students in the US.

jmeister 6y ago

US pulled ahead of the rest of the world in STEM during the wars. The brain drain of scientists fleeing Europe - exemplified by Einstein and Von Neumann joining IAS in Princeton - set up US in a dominant position that has only gotten stronger over time. So it will take some time to lose that lead, and there will be push back from the immediate beneficiaries: DoD, national science labs, Tech sector. In fact some drastic parts of the recent immigration restriction plans were removed due to pressure from tech CEOs. In the meantime this is a golden opportunity for Canada. Toronto and Montreal already have world-class CS research cluster which they can build on, and attract scientists frustrated with anti-immigrant sentiments in the US and EU.