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> From 2013 to 2018, 10 states passed so-called “cottage food laws” allowing home bakers to legally sell their goods in a variety of venues, including online, s

by ipsum2 6y ago

> From 2013 to 2018, 10 states passed so-called “cottage food laws” allowing home bakers to legally sell their goods in a variety of venues, including online, says Emily Broad Leib, faculty director of the Harvard Law School Food Law and Policy Clinic. Many other states amended existing food laws. I wasn't aware of this, I thought you needed to have a licensed kitchen. Neat!

DoreenMichele 6y ago
I can't access either the article or the archive thing linked in this discussion. Can anyone tell me what 10 states this is legal in? Are they listed in the article? Thanks.
- dakna 6y ago
  Unfortunately they are not listed, also no link to another article listing them. The farm the reporter visited is in West Virginia.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    Thank you.
    - dakna 6y ago
      This article talks about some more states deregulating: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2019/03/29/west-virginia-just-made-it-easier-to-expand-a-home-baking-business/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2019/03/29/west-vir...
      - DoreenMichele 6y ago
        Every state except New Jersey now allows home-kitchen cooks to make and sell non-hazardous foods with a low risk of causing foodborne illness such as baked goods, jams, jellies and other items that do not require time and temperature controls for food safety. Maine, North Dakota, Utah and Wyoming have gone further, enacting “food freedom” laws that exempt home producers from food-safety rules that apply to grocery stores, restaurants and other food establishments. The Wyoming legislature adopted the nation’s first Food Freedom Act in 2015, after rejecting it five times in seven years. North Dakota passed a similar food-freedom law The nearly limitless cottage-food laws in North Dakota and Wyoming are far from what’s happening in Washington. The D.C. City Council passed a cottage-food act in 2013, but final rules were not issued until December 2017. New Mexico and West Virginia are considering food-freedom laws, while North Dakota legislators might clarify their intent in a 2017 law. A food-freedom bill in Mississippi died in committee in February https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2019/03/19/as-home-cooked-cottage-food-industry-grows-states-work-to-keep-up https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta... Your article also talks about Kentucky. I am not getting an unstated part of my question answered: What are the laws in the Washington state (where I live)?
        dakna 6y ago
        https://agr.wa.gov/cottagefood https://agr.wa.gov/cottagefood Most cottage food laws not only prohibit wholesale distribution through a retailer, but also direct online sales. For example in Michigan, you can't take orders over the internet, even on your own website. Selling on Etsy is unheard off, I'm still not aware of any other state than West Virginia allowing that.
        DoreenMichele 6y ago
        Thank you. I'm pro gig work, though I hate things like Uber and DoorDash where so much of that is dependent on you having your own car and adding more traffic to the roads and all this. Maybe cottage industry is a term I need to use more. With the internet and all that, I think it ought to be easier to just make money from home, not harder. We need to actively try to reverse some of these trends towards centralization and big business stamping out small business. These are some of the sources of our ills in the world today and it makes me crazy that if a rich person talks about their ideas for solutions, it's framed like they are nice people are some nonsense. If a poor person does the same thing, it's framed like they are nutcase revolutionaries or something. I've studied certain things for a lot of years and have lived experience to inform my mental models and I'm flabbergasted that people are so openly hostile to talking about solutions. They just want to whine and when you propose solutions, they get all up in arms and try to shut that conversation down. Why? I don't get it. Do people just like being miserable and sitting around doing nothing while waiting for the world to burn to the ground?
        sokoloff 6y ago
        I wonder if the last point is not so much hostility but black-hat brainstorming of what could go wrong, particularly if your counterparty believes they have some experience that you don’t have. If someone comes to me with an idea for an idea of how to solve a problem in a space I know well and (as far as I know) they don’t know as well, my comments are likely to be at least 2:1 negative:positive. It doesn’t do them any good for me to tell them how awesome it would be for their idea to revolutionize the world. They already feel that. They more likely need to here where they’re likely to struggle or refine/test their idea before sinking thousands of hours into it. Maybe that’s a possible underlying (positively motivated) driver for the negativity you experience?
tomcam 6y ago
Cottage food laws differ per state. Here in WA it's pretty common sense. You can create things that don't require refrigeration or grease traps, so, granola or bread, for example. You are limited to $20,000 sales per annum. And your kitchen must follow certain regulations, such as no pets. IIRC an inspection may be required too.
dghughes 6y ago
No not neat. My cousin is a restaurant inspector and the horror stories she has told even for professional kitchens is unbelievable. The apathy and greed of some is going to kill people some day. Rice is one of the worst foods. Your choice is to keep it super hot or in a flat tray and chilled. There's a natural bacteria that grows if the rice is in a bowel and isn't hot anymore. I looked it up: bacillus cereus. Soap is another it's incredible how many kitchens have no soap. The inspector arrives and then there is a scramble to find some soap. But it makes you think how many people had a crap and just went back to work without washing their hands with soap.
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  Like it or not, people are eating mass amounts of home-cooked zero-inspection food every day. Letting a little bit of that get sold for profit isn't a major risk. > Rice is one of the worst foods. Your choice is to keep it super hot or in a flat tray and chilled. These laws generally apply to shelf-stable foods. So not rice. > Soap is another it's incredible how many kitchens have no soap. The inspector arrives and then there is a scramble to find some soap. But it makes you think how many people had a crap and just went back to work without washing their hands with soap. Isn't that the exact kind of problem that would be less likely in a home environment?
  - RangerScience 6y ago
    > Letting a little bit of that get sold for profit isn't a major risk. This sounds exactly like the sort of thing where statistics are how you get an answer. And, googling a bit, there's answers. Or at least details. At some point, all food was like this, and AFAIK that day was at least as recent as the 1800s. Right? I wonder when the first time a "food inspector" (in the modern sense) was a thing.
    - Retric 6y ago
      It’s much older than that, food standards go way back. England’s rather famous Assize of Bread and Ale regulating quality dates to 1266. There is likely thousands of years of history around bakers or brewers trying to save money and laws or customs designed to regulate it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assize_of_Bread_and_Ale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assize_of_Bread_and_Ale That said, the knowledge of pathogens is relatively recent ~1670s which ended up changing many rules. Historically food safety was a major issue that killed a lot of people. But, it’s not really something most people know much about.

by ipsum2 6y ago

DoreenMichele 6y ago

I can't access either the article or the archive thing linked in this discussion. Can anyone tell me what 10 states this is legal in? Are they listed in the article? Thanks.

dakna 6y ago
Unfortunately they are not listed, also no link to another article listing them. The farm the reporter visited is in West Virginia.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Thank you.
  - dakna 6y ago
    This article talks about some more states deregulating: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2019/03/29/west-virginia-just-made-it-easier-to-expand-a-home-baking-business/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2019/03/29/west-vir...
    - DoreenMichele 6y ago
      Every state except New Jersey now allows home-kitchen cooks to make and sell non-hazardous foods with a low risk of causing foodborne illness such as baked goods, jams, jellies and other items that do not require time and temperature controls for food safety. Maine, North Dakota, Utah and Wyoming have gone further, enacting “food freedom” laws that exempt home producers from food-safety rules that apply to grocery stores, restaurants and other food establishments. The Wyoming legislature adopted the nation’s first Food Freedom Act in 2015, after rejecting it five times in seven years. North Dakota passed a similar food-freedom law The nearly limitless cottage-food laws in North Dakota and Wyoming are far from what’s happening in Washington. The D.C. City Council passed a cottage-food act in 2013, but final rules were not issued until December 2017. New Mexico and West Virginia are considering food-freedom laws, while North Dakota legislators might clarify their intent in a 2017 law. A food-freedom bill in Mississippi died in committee in February https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2019/03/19/as-home-cooked-cottage-food-industry-grows-states-work-to-keep-up https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta... Your article also talks about Kentucky. I am not getting an unstated part of my question answered: What are the laws in the Washington state (where I live)?
      - dakna 6y ago
        https://agr.wa.gov/cottagefood https://agr.wa.gov/cottagefood Most cottage food laws not only prohibit wholesale distribution through a retailer, but also direct online sales. For example in Michigan, you can't take orders over the internet, even on your own website. Selling on Etsy is unheard off, I'm still not aware of any other state than West Virginia allowing that.
        DoreenMichele 6y ago
        Thank you. I'm pro gig work, though I hate things like Uber and DoorDash where so much of that is dependent on you having your own car and adding more traffic to the roads and all this. Maybe cottage industry is a term I need to use more. With the internet and all that, I think it ought to be easier to just make money from home, not harder. We need to actively try to reverse some of these trends towards centralization and big business stamping out small business. These are some of the sources of our ills in the world today and it makes me crazy that if a rich person talks about their ideas for solutions, it's framed like they are nice people are some nonsense. If a poor person does the same thing, it's framed like they are nutcase revolutionaries or something. I've studied certain things for a lot of years and have lived experience to inform my mental models and I'm flabbergasted that people are so openly hostile to talking about solutions. They just want to whine and when you propose solutions, they get all up in arms and try to shut that conversation down. Why? I don't get it. Do people just like being miserable and sitting around doing nothing while waiting for the world to burn to the ground?
        sokoloff 6y ago
        I wonder if the last point is not so much hostility but black-hat brainstorming of what could go wrong, particularly if your counterparty believes they have some experience that you don’t have. If someone comes to me with an idea for an idea of how to solve a problem in a space I know well and (as far as I know) they don’t know as well, my comments are likely to be at least 2:1 negative:positive. It doesn’t do them any good for me to tell them how awesome it would be for their idea to revolutionize the world. They already feel that. They more likely need to here where they’re likely to struggle or refine/test their idea before sinking thousands of hours into it. Maybe that’s a possible underlying (positively motivated) driver for the negativity you experience?

tomcam 6y ago

Cottage food laws differ per state. Here in WA it's pretty common sense. You can create things that don't require refrigeration or grease traps, so, granola or bread, for example. You are limited to $20,000 sales per annum. And your kitchen must follow certain regulations, such as no pets. IIRC an inspection may be required too.

dghughes 6y ago

No not neat. My cousin is a restaurant inspector and the horror stories she has told even for professional kitchens is unbelievable. The apathy and greed of some is going to kill people some day. Rice is one of the worst foods. Your choice is to keep it super hot or in a flat tray and chilled. There's a natural bacteria that grows if the rice is in a bowel and isn't hot anymore. I looked it up: bacillus cereus. Soap is another it's incredible how many kitchens have no soap. The inspector arrives and then there is a scramble to find some soap. But it makes you think how many people had a crap and just went back to work without washing their hands with soap.

Dylan16807 6y ago
Like it or not, people are eating mass amounts of home-cooked zero-inspection food every day. Letting a little bit of that get sold for profit isn't a major risk. > Rice is one of the worst foods. Your choice is to keep it super hot or in a flat tray and chilled. These laws generally apply to shelf-stable foods. So not rice. > Soap is another it's incredible how many kitchens have no soap. The inspector arrives and then there is a scramble to find some soap. But it makes you think how many people had a crap and just went back to work without washing their hands with soap. Isn't that the exact kind of problem that would be less likely in a home environment?
- RangerScience 6y ago
  > Letting a little bit of that get sold for profit isn't a major risk. This sounds exactly like the sort of thing where statistics are how you get an answer. And, googling a bit, there's answers. Or at least details. At some point, all food was like this, and AFAIK that day was at least as recent as the 1800s. Right? I wonder when the first time a "food inspector" (in the modern sense) was a thing.
  - Retric 6y ago
    It’s much older than that, food standards go way back. England’s rather famous Assize of Bread and Ale regulating quality dates to 1266. There is likely thousands of years of history around bakers or brewers trying to save money and laws or customs designed to regulate it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assize_of_Bread_and_Ale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assize_of_Bread_and_Ale That said, the knowledge of pathogens is relatively recent ~1670s which ended up changing many rules. Historically food safety was a major issue that killed a lot of people. But, it’s not really something most people know much about.