8 ms·

Our culture is moving or has already moved away from a reading culture. Instead of spending free time reading, people watch Netflix, Youtube, TikTok etc. I thin

Our culture is moving or has already moved away from a reading culture. Instead of spending free time reading, people watch Netflix, Youtube, TikTok etc. I think that has huge consequences on human behavior. Where as once people would read the newspaper and be able to think about what is happening in the world, people today scroll through their feed where in one instant they are reading an article about war crimes in South America committed by the U.S. and in the next instant what Kylie Jenner wore to the MET gala.

aplummer 6y ago
I don’t have a source on hand, however I read now because of chat culture people actually read and write a lot more. Back then verbal communication was so much more commonplace. Sure it’s not novels etc, mostly comments are chit chat, but still words.
pathseeker 6y ago
Nope, people have been reading shit for decades before the Internet. Go to your local grocery store and look at the magazines on the racks near checkout.
stagger87 6y ago
Do you have any data to back up your first sentence, or is this your personal opinion? People have been claiming this for decades, but I'm not familiar with the sources on this. It looks like other people here would be interested too. Also, are you defining "reading culture" as leisure reading? Or something else?
dean177 6y ago
“The new thing is bad, people should do more of the old thing”. If people couldn’t watch Netflix they certainly wouldn’t be using that time to think about important issues. The world has not moved away from a reading culture, it never had one.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
  I disagree. And sure, the new thing comes along and isn't really all that new or bad until it actually is. Sometimes a new thing really is bad. Sounds like a fallacy to think that since every past advance was a good thing that every future advance must also be a good thing. You don't think digital media has caused a huge and rapid shift in the way humans entertain themselves and communicate? I'm not sure if it's for better or for worse but this is vastly different than anything humans have dealt with for all of history.
  - grawprog 6y ago
    I have to admit, I read books a lot less than I used to, but many of the books I read weren't really much more substantial than a TV show in the end. For every high quality book that makes you think i've read, i've read a dozen or more fluff fantasy or sci-fi stories. Whereas my web browsing habits have probably changed for the better. I spend far less tine reading random nonsense now and most of my time spent on the web is spent either reading things at least I find productive or talking to people.
- save_ferris 6y ago
  > it never had one. How can you say that? Literacy was once a very strong proxy to wealth, and still retains a connection today. Books have been fundamental to many aspects of human history. If Russia never had a culture of reading, then how does the Communist Manifesto drive an entire society, millions of people, to overthrow its familial leaders before the era of television?
  - wahern 6y ago
    > how does the Communist Manifesto drive an entire society, millions of people, to overthrow its familial leaders before the era of television? It didn't and couldn't. That was the conceit and power behind Lenin's "vanguard" concept. Only a small minority needed to be ideologically driven; everybody else could and did join sides based on more practical, individualized motivations. See, generally, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguardism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguardism That said, I'm not trying to opine on whether, when, and how popular book reading was or still is.
eberkund 6y ago
Here is a source: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/the-decline-of-the-american-book-lover/283222/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/the-dec... It seems like OP is accurate in their assessment, it's surprising to see how many people read ZERO books in the preceding year.
- DennisP 6y ago
  Your source also argues that the trend is probably turning around.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  I've probably read zero books in the preceding year. But I have the internet and I can access rich content at my fingertips on topics I care to educate myself on in a way that wasn't possible when I was a child. I use this to do things like say to my 32 year old son "I'm having X health issue. I recall reading something about (y health topic). Please see if x and y are related and if there is something I can do about it." An hour later, I have an email full of supporting links showing me that research shows there is a connection, these are the nutrients related to that problem and here is a list of foods with those nutrients. This has resulted at times in answer like "The answer to your problem is you need to eat a Reese's Cup." I eat a Reese's Cup and my agonizing, incapacitating pain drops dramatically to bearable levels. The old way isn't necessarily superior. I used to read a lot of books when my mother would take my older sister and I to the library so my sister could spend hours doing research for her high school papers. I would lay on the floor in the children's room and read Dr. Seuss or whatever. I can now access more high quality information on the internet via my cheap smart phone than probably any library has ever physically contained. And I spend large parts of my time reading on the internet and then I write to collate the information and keep track of the parts that matter to me. I am always baffled by people acting like spending all day on the internet means pissing your time away shit posting on Facebook or Twitter and not doing anything at all intellectually valuable. I'm doubly baffled when I see such sentiments expressed on Hacker News, where a bunch of smart people hang out to discuss mostly written articles (audio and video tend to do poorly here) and many people here read the comment first because of the calibre of thought the audience provides.
roosterdawn 6y ago
> people today scroll through their feed where in one instant they are reading an article about war crimes in South America committed by the U.S. and in the next instant what Kylie Jenner wore to the MET gala Doesn't this completely invalidate your argument? If it's that much easier for folks to read an article about war crimes in South America committed by the US and the next about Kylie Jenner at a gala, how is that different from reading one section of a newspaper and then a different section?
- hckr_news 6y ago
  I think the point he’s trying to make is people are reading, but reading blurbs and tweets, rather than long form content like a book or an essay piece. Similar to eating fast food as it’s readily available, accessible, quick instead of choosing a more wholesome meal with good benefits.
  - kgwgk 6y ago
    In that case, he could have said "a book" rather than "the newspaper".
- robryan 6y ago
  Most newspapers have never really been much different, same with the nightly news on TV. Everything is presented in such a way to give a very brief surface level look at a lot of stories without really giving a level of deep understanding of anything. Online that level of deep understand is there if you want it, but most people scrolling through a feed won’t seek it out.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
code_duck 6y ago
How is this different than the past two or three generations and television? Personally, I grew up reading any sort of book and then switched to nonfiction and magazine articles. My habits haven't changed considerably with the internet. I may be an outlier but I don't enjoy video in general and don't watch it on TV or online. My experience with recent children is that they read books, watch video on TV and online, play physically and with toys, and also play video games. That's almost exactly what my life was like growing up in the '80s.
- hhsuey 6y ago
  Agreed. And the same with the radio generation. Honestly, wouldn't be surprised if most people didn't read in USA and elsewhere through most of human history.
  - code_duck 6y ago
    Well, that's a great point. For almost all of human history prior to the 20th century, the vast majority of people never even learned to read.
quotz 6y ago
I would like to mention Paul Graham's essay Acceleration of Addictiveness http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html
- hckr_news 6y ago
  Slight tangent but somewhat related. The amount of damage mobile phones and the tech industry have done on the human mind has been extremely understated. These hits of dopamine aren’t free. There’s a massive cost. Loss of privacy aside, the next battle has to be addressing the addiction of these platforms/devices and what it means for humans going forward.
  - ridhwaan 6y ago
    This was the underlying implication of my post. Reading a book is in no way similar to the way we consume media/information today.
nbardy 6y ago
It depends on what you're watching. I read a lot less than I used to, but that's because I prefer to watch long form discussion in the form of podcast. In my eyes it's often disseminating the same information of the authors book, but in a form of spoken word and conversation that is much more natural for a human to digest.
derrick_jensen 6y ago
Podcasts are getting pretty popular as well. I think just in terms of sheer available time to listen versus watching videos, podcasts could gain a sizeable market share.
sandov 6y ago
On the other hand, those who really want to read have a vast supply of amazing content online in both fiction and non-fiction. Those who have time and are willing to pirate books basically have the keys to the kingdom, they can learn whatever the hell they want with just a computer and an Internet connection. Think of how much of a difference that makes in low and middle income countries. Maybe in the first world people have always been able to buy books for cheap (relative to their income), but the amount of reading opportunities people in low and middle income countries have with the Internet is, in my opinion, a new and beatiful thing.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
sandworm101 6y ago
>> I think that has huge consequences on human behavior. They once said that about reading. The invention of the printing press made books cheap. Suddenly everyone was learning to read. They spent time with their noses in books rather than knitting sweaters, toiling in the fields or praying. Then it was TV. Then the internet. Then social media. There is always a new medium that threatens to "change behavior" to the detriment of society. Somehow we have muddled through.
hhsuey 6y ago
Reading doesn't necessarily mean more thinking than it does with other mediums. Lots of text lacks substance and depth and is used as entertainment. Much of the previous generations were reading quick bites from news and magazines.
badrabbit 6y ago
Ashamed to say I haven't read a non-tech book start to finish in a long time. I simply don't enjoy it. Some of the technical long articles (even scientific ones like quantamagazine) or wikipedia pages I enjoy reading. I even sometimes look up topics out of curiosity and get lost in wikipedia for hours. I can't stand written novels or other non-tech/spiritual books. Same with audiobook or acted out narrated versions. I just have too many things fighting for my time and attention.
bluescrn 6y ago
Right now, there is no real news to read, just grim statistics, anger, and blame. Best thing you can do for your mental health is limit your intake of it.
- Kamanin 6y ago
  Ahahah, the only news I see are covid news... nothing else...like literally Today the number of ill ones jumped to new record... so I really suffer of lack of news. That is why I started to learn motion design, read few new books of infamous authors and even went to culinary courses( online) ... And one more thing.. all that shit that we were talking about that we don’t have enough time ... it’s crap, we just fell into disgrace :)

aplummer 6y ago

I don’t have a source on hand, however I read now because of chat culture people actually read and write a lot more. Back then verbal communication was so much more commonplace. Sure it’s not novels etc, mostly comments are chit chat, but still words.

pathseeker 6y ago

Nope, people have been reading shit for decades before the Internet. Go to your local grocery store and look at the magazines on the racks near checkout.

stagger87 6y ago

Do you have any data to back up your first sentence, or is this your personal opinion? People have been claiming this for decades, but I'm not familiar with the sources on this. It looks like other people here would be interested too. Also, are you defining "reading culture" as leisure reading? Or something else?

dean177 6y ago

“The new thing is bad, people should do more of the old thing”. If people couldn’t watch Netflix they certainly wouldn’t be using that time to think about important issues. The world has not moved away from a reading culture, it never had one.

2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
I disagree. And sure, the new thing comes along and isn't really all that new or bad until it actually is. Sometimes a new thing really is bad. Sounds like a fallacy to think that since every past advance was a good thing that every future advance must also be a good thing. You don't think digital media has caused a huge and rapid shift in the way humans entertain themselves and communicate? I'm not sure if it's for better or for worse but this is vastly different than anything humans have dealt with for all of history.
- grawprog 6y ago
  I have to admit, I read books a lot less than I used to, but many of the books I read weren't really much more substantial than a TV show in the end. For every high quality book that makes you think i've read, i've read a dozen or more fluff fantasy or sci-fi stories. Whereas my web browsing habits have probably changed for the better. I spend far less tine reading random nonsense now and most of my time spent on the web is spent either reading things at least I find productive or talking to people.
save_ferris 6y ago
> it never had one. How can you say that? Literacy was once a very strong proxy to wealth, and still retains a connection today. Books have been fundamental to many aspects of human history. If Russia never had a culture of reading, then how does the Communist Manifesto drive an entire society, millions of people, to overthrow its familial leaders before the era of television?
- wahern 6y ago
  > how does the Communist Manifesto drive an entire society, millions of people, to overthrow its familial leaders before the era of television? It didn't and couldn't. That was the conceit and power behind Lenin's "vanguard" concept. Only a small minority needed to be ideologically driven; everybody else could and did join sides based on more practical, individualized motivations. See, generally, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguardism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguardism That said, I'm not trying to opine on whether, when, and how popular book reading was or still is.

eberkund 6y ago

Here is a source: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/the-decline-of-the-american-book-lover/283222/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/the-dec... It seems like OP is accurate in their assessment, it's surprising to see how many people read ZERO books in the preceding year.

DennisP 6y ago
Your source also argues that the trend is probably turning around.
DoreenMichele 6y ago
I've probably read zero books in the preceding year. But I have the internet and I can access rich content at my fingertips on topics I care to educate myself on in a way that wasn't possible when I was a child. I use this to do things like say to my 32 year old son "I'm having X health issue. I recall reading something about (y health topic). Please see if x and y are related and if there is something I can do about it." An hour later, I have an email full of supporting links showing me that research shows there is a connection, these are the nutrients related to that problem and here is a list of foods with those nutrients. This has resulted at times in answer like "The answer to your problem is you need to eat a Reese's Cup." I eat a Reese's Cup and my agonizing, incapacitating pain drops dramatically to bearable levels. The old way isn't necessarily superior. I used to read a lot of books when my mother would take my older sister and I to the library so my sister could spend hours doing research for her high school papers. I would lay on the floor in the children's room and read Dr. Seuss or whatever. I can now access more high quality information on the internet via my cheap smart phone than probably any library has ever physically contained. And I spend large parts of my time reading on the internet and then I write to collate the information and keep track of the parts that matter to me. I am always baffled by people acting like spending all day on the internet means pissing your time away shit posting on Facebook or Twitter and not doing anything at all intellectually valuable. I'm doubly baffled when I see such sentiments expressed on Hacker News, where a bunch of smart people hang out to discuss mostly written articles (audio and video tend to do poorly here) and many people here read the comment first because of the calibre of thought the audience provides.

roosterdawn 6y ago

> people today scroll through their feed where in one instant they are reading an article about war crimes in South America committed by the U.S. and in the next instant what Kylie Jenner wore to the MET gala Doesn't this completely invalidate your argument? If it's that much easier for folks to read an article about war crimes in South America committed by the US and the next about Kylie Jenner at a gala, how is that different from reading one section of a newspaper and then a different section?

hckr_news 6y ago
I think the point he’s trying to make is people are reading, but reading blurbs and tweets, rather than long form content like a book or an essay piece. Similar to eating fast food as it’s readily available, accessible, quick instead of choosing a more wholesome meal with good benefits.
- kgwgk 6y ago
  In that case, he could have said "a book" rather than "the newspaper".
robryan 6y ago
Most newspapers have never really been much different, same with the nightly news on TV. Everything is presented in such a way to give a very brief surface level look at a lot of stories without really giving a level of deep understanding of anything. Online that level of deep understand is there if you want it, but most people scrolling through a feed won’t seek it out.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

code_duck 6y ago

How is this different than the past two or three generations and television? Personally, I grew up reading any sort of book and then switched to nonfiction and magazine articles. My habits haven't changed considerably with the internet. I may be an outlier but I don't enjoy video in general and don't watch it on TV or online. My experience with recent children is that they read books, watch video on TV and online, play physically and with toys, and also play video games. That's almost exactly what my life was like growing up in the '80s.

hhsuey 6y ago
Agreed. And the same with the radio generation. Honestly, wouldn't be surprised if most people didn't read in USA and elsewhere through most of human history.
- code_duck 6y ago
  Well, that's a great point. For almost all of human history prior to the 20th century, the vast majority of people never even learned to read.

quotz 6y ago

I would like to mention Paul Graham's essay Acceleration of Addictiveness http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html

hckr_news 6y ago
Slight tangent but somewhat related. The amount of damage mobile phones and the tech industry have done on the human mind has been extremely understated. These hits of dopamine aren’t free. There’s a massive cost. Loss of privacy aside, the next battle has to be addressing the addiction of these platforms/devices and what it means for humans going forward.
- ridhwaan 6y ago
  This was the underlying implication of my post. Reading a book is in no way similar to the way we consume media/information today.

nbardy 6y ago

It depends on what you're watching. I read a lot less than I used to, but that's because I prefer to watch long form discussion in the form of podcast. In my eyes it's often disseminating the same information of the authors book, but in a form of spoken word and conversation that is much more natural for a human to digest.

derrick_jensen 6y ago

Podcasts are getting pretty popular as well. I think just in terms of sheer available time to listen versus watching videos, podcasts could gain a sizeable market share.

sandov 6y ago

On the other hand, those who really want to read have a vast supply of amazing content online in both fiction and non-fiction. Those who have time and are willing to pirate books basically have the keys to the kingdom, they can learn whatever the hell they want with just a computer and an Internet connection. Think of how much of a difference that makes in low and middle income countries. Maybe in the first world people have always been able to buy books for cheap (relative to their income), but the amount of reading opportunities people in low and middle income countries have with the Internet is, in my opinion, a new and beatiful thing.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

sandworm101 6y ago

>> I think that has huge consequences on human behavior. They once said that about reading. The invention of the printing press made books cheap. Suddenly everyone was learning to read. They spent time with their noses in books rather than knitting sweaters, toiling in the fields or praying. Then it was TV. Then the internet. Then social media. There is always a new medium that threatens to "change behavior" to the detriment of society. Somehow we have muddled through.

hhsuey 6y ago

Reading doesn't necessarily mean more thinking than it does with other mediums. Lots of text lacks substance and depth and is used as entertainment. Much of the previous generations were reading quick bites from news and magazines.

badrabbit 6y ago

Ashamed to say I haven't read a non-tech book start to finish in a long time. I simply don't enjoy it. Some of the technical long articles (even scientific ones like quantamagazine) or wikipedia pages I enjoy reading. I even sometimes look up topics out of curiosity and get lost in wikipedia for hours. I can't stand written novels or other non-tech/spiritual books. Same with audiobook or acted out narrated versions. I just have too many things fighting for my time and attention.

bluescrn 6y ago

Right now, there is no real news to read, just grim statistics, anger, and blame. Best thing you can do for your mental health is limit your intake of it.

Kamanin 6y ago
Ahahah, the only news I see are covid news... nothing else...like literally Today the number of ill ones jumped to new record... so I really suffer of lack of news. That is why I started to learn motion design, read few new books of infamous authors and even went to culinary courses( online) ... And one more thing.. all that shit that we were talking about that we don’t have enough time ... it’s crap, we just fell into disgrace :)