4 ms·

In context (http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html) he specifically states that he think Lisp is at the top of the power continuu

by goto11 6y ago

In context (http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html) he specifically states that he think Lisp is at the top of the power continuum. The point of the Blup-parable is to explain why Lisp isn't that popular when it is so amazing.

marcosdumay 6y ago
Ok, after reading it again, by "very clear" I was overstating it, but there is this note: > [4] Note to nerds: or possibly a lattice, narrowing toward the top; it's not the shape that matters here but the idea that there is at least a partial order. And in no place he says Lisp is the end-all best language. At most he compares it with other languages his competitors used on the context of Viaweb, what on the bottom of the article means C++, Java, Perl and Python. He indeed goes on to argue that any language more powerful than Lisp would be Lisp, because macros work that way. If you don't take notice that he is simplifying things into a power continuum to make a point, that can mislead you into the message that Lisp is the most powerful language. But he puts some effort into making the message language agnostic.
- int_19h 6y ago
  Is Forth Lisp? Given that you can control the reader, everything is possible syntactically, and semantics is entirely what you make it.
  - marcosdumay 6y ago
    I would say it fits his description (but well, I'm also quick to dismiss it all because ergonomics matter), so it's at least equivalent in power. I have no idea what he would say, I imagine a serious lisper would be offended by the suggestion (because, well, ergonomics matter), but would take a while to even understand why.
    - int_19h 6y ago
      > I imagine a serious lisper would be offended by the suggestion (because, well, ergonomics matter) Curiously, it did come up in the context of ergonomics in another discussion thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23178953 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23178953

by goto11 6y ago

marcosdumay 6y ago

Ok, after reading it again, by "very clear" I was overstating it, but there is this note: > [4] Note to nerds: or possibly a lattice, narrowing toward the top; it's not the shape that matters here but the idea that there is at least a partial order. And in no place he says Lisp is the end-all best language. At most he compares it with other languages his competitors used on the context of Viaweb, what on the bottom of the article means C++, Java, Perl and Python. He indeed goes on to argue that any language more powerful than Lisp would be Lisp, because macros work that way. If you don't take notice that he is simplifying things into a power continuum to make a point, that can mislead you into the message that Lisp is the most powerful language. But he puts some effort into making the message language agnostic.

int_19h 6y ago
Is Forth Lisp? Given that you can control the reader, everything is possible syntactically, and semantics is entirely what you make it.
- marcosdumay 6y ago
  I would say it fits his description (but well, I'm also quick to dismiss it all because ergonomics matter), so it's at least equivalent in power. I have no idea what he would say, I imagine a serious lisper would be offended by the suggestion (because, well, ergonomics matter), but would take a while to even understand why.
  - int_19h 6y ago
    > I imagine a serious lisper would be offended by the suggestion (because, well, ergonomics matter) Curiously, it did come up in the context of ergonomics in another discussion thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23178953 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23178953