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Things like vaccines and ICU units didn't exist in Biblical times so perhaps 2000 years of progress has had some effect on the calculus of such an issue.

by zzzeek 6y ago

TeMPOraL 6y ago
Not really. Vaccines help you prevent an outbreak from reoccuring; it's unlikely one would be created in time to stop an ongoing one. ICUs help minimize causalties. Neither one is a qualitative change in terms of handling a sudden outbreak. We got better at handling pandemics, but the playbook is mostly still the same - identify and isolate infected, and wait it out.
- zzzeek 6y ago
  the point is we want the hospitals to stay available to the general public. this means reducing the speed of the disease's progress allows this resource to stay available.
- carapace 6y ago
  It's absurd to point to "biblical trilemma" as something that should inform a modern society on how to handle a pandemic. > "three years of famine" Less than 3% of the population is involved in food production in modern times.
  - jtbayly 6y ago
    Are you saying famine can't happen today? I don't get it.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      I think it's fair to say that famine can't happen in areas with access to modern agricultural technology. (Which is a very real difference; until modern times there was no country so rich or productive that it didn't have to worry about famine.)
      - jtbayly 6y ago
        But NYC doesn’t have such access. Only a small portion of the population does. The rest only have access to supply chains. I’m not saying this virus is enough to cause famine in the USA. I just think it’s silly to assume that because (somewhere in our country) there is the capability to grow enough food for everybody that therefore there can’t be famine anymore.
    - carapace 6y ago
      I hate to bet against human stupidity, but yeah, essentially this virus will not cause famine. It just doesn't require that many people to grow and distribute food these days. (Even before the virus hit we have been massively overproducing and wasting food globally. People go hungry today not because of lack of production but because it's cheaper to throw away food than give it to those in need. Shamefull, IMO, but that's the way it is. We could feed everybody on Earth but we just don't.) Advice meant for the ruler of a small kingdom or city-state twenty centuries ago just isn't applicable today.
      - TeMPOraL 6y ago
        I think you haven't been following supply chain news recently. Or what UN says. There's absolutely going to be famine in less developed countries, and much higher food prices and lower variety in the coming months in developed countries.
        carapace 6y ago
        No, you're right, I was being provincial, just talking about North America. Globally, yes, there will be famine. I don't have enough information to do other than speculate but even though it seems likely at this point I would be surprised if it happens due to lack of food rather than failures of distribution. I believe that, if we can just get our act together a little bit, we can weather the virus and repair the economy and no one has to starve. We have the capacity to grow and deliver the food. - - - - I have to add, I was watching John Oliver's show the other day and he had a clip of that Alex Jones guy advocating cannibalism, talking openly about how he's down to eat his neighbors! I'm looking at him thinking, "You got a lotta meat on yer bones to talk like that fella." When this all first started I was worried about the failure of the food system and the possibility of "long pork" appearing in city butcher shops. Once I got more information I felt silly: at it's worst this virus can't kill enough people fast enough to disrupt the system badly enough. The worst-case scenario still isn't that bad. It's still horrible, but at least we won't have to eat each other.
        TeMPOraL 6y ago

Things like vaccines and ICU units didn't exist in Biblical times so perhaps 2000 years of progress has had some effect on the calculus of such an issue.

by zzzeek 6y ago

Things like vaccines and ICU units didn't exist in Biblical times so perhaps 2000 years of progress has had some effect on the calculus of such an issue.

TeMPOraL 6y ago

Not really. Vaccines help you prevent an outbreak from reoccuring; it's unlikely one would be created in time to stop an ongoing one. ICUs help minimize causalties. Neither one is a qualitative change in terms of handling a sudden outbreak. We got better at handling pandemics, but the playbook is mostly still the same - identify and isolate infected, and wait it out.

zzzeek 6y ago
the point is we want the hospitals to stay available to the general public. this means reducing the speed of the disease's progress allows this resource to stay available.
carapace 6y ago
It's absurd to point to "biblical trilemma" as something that should inform a modern society on how to handle a pandemic. > "three years of famine" Less than 3% of the population is involved in food production in modern times.
- jtbayly 6y ago
  Are you saying famine can't happen today? I don't get it.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    I think it's fair to say that famine can't happen in areas with access to modern agricultural technology. (Which is a very real difference; until modern times there was no country so rich or productive that it didn't have to worry about famine.)
    - jtbayly 6y ago
      But NYC doesn’t have such access. Only a small portion of the population does. The rest only have access to supply chains. I’m not saying this virus is enough to cause famine in the USA. I just think it’s silly to assume that because (somewhere in our country) there is the capability to grow enough food for everybody that therefore there can’t be famine anymore.
  - carapace 6y ago
    I hate to bet against human stupidity, but yeah, essentially this virus will not cause famine. It just doesn't require that many people to grow and distribute food these days. (Even before the virus hit we have been massively overproducing and wasting food globally. People go hungry today not because of lack of production but because it's cheaper to throw away food than give it to those in need. Shamefull, IMO, but that's the way it is. We could feed everybody on Earth but we just don't.) Advice meant for the ruler of a small kingdom or city-state twenty centuries ago just isn't applicable today.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      I think you haven't been following supply chain news recently. Or what UN says. There's absolutely going to be famine in less developed countries, and much higher food prices and lower variety in the coming months in developed countries.
      - carapace 6y ago
        No, you're right, I was being provincial, just talking about North America. Globally, yes, there will be famine. I don't have enough information to do other than speculate but even though it seems likely at this point I would be surprised if it happens due to lack of food rather than failures of distribution. I believe that, if we can just get our act together a little bit, we can weather the virus and repair the economy and no one has to starve. We have the capacity to grow and deliver the food. - - - - I have to add, I was watching John Oliver's show the other day and he had a clip of that Alex Jones guy advocating cannibalism, talking openly about how he's down to eat his neighbors! I'm looking at him thinking, "You got a lotta meat on yer bones to talk like that fella." When this all first started I was worried about the failure of the food system and the possibility of "long pork" appearing in city butcher shops. Once I got more information I felt silly: at it's worst this virus can't kill enough people fast enough to disrupt the system badly enough. The worst-case scenario still isn't that bad. It's still horrible, but at least we won't have to eat each other.
        TeMPOraL 6y ago