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Why does it have to be sad? To me it is good news! Especially if it is open source. The more software we can write that isn’t specific to a platform the more f

Why does it have to be sad? To me it is good news! Especially if it is open source. The more software we can write that isn’t specific to a platform the more free and useful software can become. It wrestles back control from google, apple, microsoft et. al and makes their closed platforms less relevant.

scarface74 6y ago
"Useful" as long as you don't care about battery life, memory usage, taking advantage of features of the host platform, or the native UI. As an end user why do I care about "openness"? If I pay a premium for my platform, why would I want second rate cross platform software?
- pikelet 6y ago
  As an end user you might not get that software at all if no one is motivated to build it.
  - dhosek 6y ago
    But junk software is still junk and not worth the trouble.
    - hombre_fatal 6y ago
      Are we to presume you think that using native SDKs saves your junk software from being junk? I'm not sure how else to interpret your comment in this thread.
      - dhosek 6y ago
        Having software that doesn't act like native software makes it junk. I've deleted a lot of software that was created with cross-platform SDKs that just didn't behave the way every other program on my computer did. I don't have time for that. It's a lot more likely that something created with a native SDK will behave like a native app than something slapped together with the cross-platform SDK du jour.
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  > As an end user why do I care about "openness"? If I pay a premium for my platform, why would I want second rate cross platform software? Falsehoods HNers believe about how people buy/use software. Didn't stop Slack/Discord from become ubiquitous. "But native tho" just becomes a circlejerk. Talking about what users care about, most people don't know what native means nor if a given app is it. They don't know if Zoom is using more memory or CPU than it "should".
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Let's not forget that MS Teams has more paying users than Slack.... How many people know that Slack is battery draining monstrosity? The only people that pay for Slack are companies. The definition of Enterprise Software is where the user is not the customer.
    - zankly 6y ago
      MS Teams has more paying users than Slack because for every CIO in America there is probably a Microsoft employee who goes to strip clubs with him.
    - what-the-grump 6y ago
      Hmm this one is tough Office 365 has more paying users on teams. I doubt anyone is paying for teams, also they are not direct competitors. We use both, likely to get phones with teams in the future as well.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        Whether it is fair or not that Teams comes with Office is irrelevant. This is Slack's competition. They have to convince companies that it is worth paying extra for their product. In the famous words of Jobs about Dropbox -- chat isn't a product, it's a feature.
        what-the-grump 6y ago
- badsectoracula 6y ago
  > If I pay a premium for my platform, why would I want second rate cross platform software? Are you paying for your software or getting whatever you can find for free? If you are paying, is the software's leanness something you value - that is, will you buy some software because it is leaner over some other software that is heavier? Would that be even if the heavier software has more features? What sort of software have you bought? I'm asking seriously, not trolling - i've bought Total Commander myself exactly because it was lean (check: windows calculator vs one of the most feature packed file managers[0]) but i do not think there are many that value things like that. [0] https://i.imgur.com/LYzN3Cj.png https://i.imgur.com/LYzN3Cj.png
  - rado 6y ago
    Just bought the wonderful native git client Fork, even though it works for free and the Electron GitHub Desktop is also free.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    As far as desktop software, the only software I pay for are subscriptions to Office 365 and JetBrains R#. I don’t really use my personal computer for too much of anything besides Office and a Plex server - I paid for a Plex Pass solely to support the developer. On mobile, I’ll pay to remove ads and I won’t use any software or games where I can’t remove ads. With the economy in the crapper, I’m starting to voluntarily pay more to support my favorite content producers.
    - jasonlotito 6y ago
      This is funny because you just listed a bunch of cross platform software.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        The argument is not about cross platform software. It’s about native client software. Office is not written using one of the cross platform frameworks and is usually only around 3-9 months behind when it comes to taking advantage of new features as Apple releases them. Plex is server software. The UI is a web page. R# itself is a plug-in only for Visual Studio for Windows. Yes Rider is cross platform, but I don’t have a need for it. The only other software I mentioned are games. No one expects a native experience from games.
- Barrin92 6y ago
  > If I pay a premium for my platform this is something that you might value but I think it's fair to say it is already a minority position. phones and the web have become the primary platform for software delivery, and people do not treat their desktop if they even have one as some sort of premium platform, it's a terminal for the internet. at this point, people are probably more familiar with the look and feel of web applications than they are with native applications and value similarity across platforms over features of individual platforms. The operating system and the hardware are increasingly becoming irrelevant and a detail compared to the web on top.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Follow the money. People pay for what they value. Who is paying money for desktop software besides games, Office 365, and the Adobe Creative Suite? Who values desktop software enough to pay for it? I know in the Mac market at least, the few indy developers making money are not writing apps using cross platform SDKs.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Lots of business running Windows on their labs and using desktop software for various use cases, like data analysis. Plenty of money to be made desktop solutions to life sciences, manufacturing, factory automation, aren't plugging their air gaped dashboards to the web. Anyone doing music composition, graphics, animation, infotainment systems. In Europe there are enough Win32, WPF, UWP, Qt related jobs and consulting projects with hourly rates to do a comfortable living. As for B2C, it is always going to be an uphill battle regardless of the application type, there are only so many application types that one is willing to pay for outside established brands, and SaaS is a much better way to avoid piracy and get everyone to pay.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        We are speaking specifically about B2C where the users are the customers. But either way, you kind of made my point. Consumers aren't paying for applications built on cross platform frameworks outside of games.
jfkebwjsbx 6y ago
False dichotomy. Native applications can be cross-platform.

scarface74 6y ago

"Useful" as long as you don't care about battery life, memory usage, taking advantage of features of the host platform, or the native UI. As an end user why do I care about "openness"? If I pay a premium for my platform, why would I want second rate cross platform software?

pikelet 6y ago
As an end user you might not get that software at all if no one is motivated to build it.
- dhosek 6y ago
  But junk software is still junk and not worth the trouble.
  - hombre_fatal 6y ago
    Are we to presume you think that using native SDKs saves your junk software from being junk? I'm not sure how else to interpret your comment in this thread.
    - dhosek 6y ago
      Having software that doesn't act like native software makes it junk. I've deleted a lot of software that was created with cross-platform SDKs that just didn't behave the way every other program on my computer did. I don't have time for that. It's a lot more likely that something created with a native SDK will behave like a native app than something slapped together with the cross-platform SDK du jour.
hombre_fatal 6y ago
> As an end user why do I care about "openness"? If I pay a premium for my platform, why would I want second rate cross platform software? Falsehoods HNers believe about how people buy/use software. Didn't stop Slack/Discord from become ubiquitous. "But native tho" just becomes a circlejerk. Talking about what users care about, most people don't know what native means nor if a given app is it. They don't know if Zoom is using more memory or CPU than it "should".
- scarface74 6y ago
  Let's not forget that MS Teams has more paying users than Slack.... How many people know that Slack is battery draining monstrosity? The only people that pay for Slack are companies. The definition of Enterprise Software is where the user is not the customer.
  - zankly 6y ago
    MS Teams has more paying users than Slack because for every CIO in America there is probably a Microsoft employee who goes to strip clubs with him.
  - what-the-grump 6y ago
    Hmm this one is tough Office 365 has more paying users on teams. I doubt anyone is paying for teams, also they are not direct competitors. We use both, likely to get phones with teams in the future as well.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      Whether it is fair or not that Teams comes with Office is irrelevant. This is Slack's competition. They have to convince companies that it is worth paying extra for their product. In the famous words of Jobs about Dropbox -- chat isn't a product, it's a feature.
      - what-the-grump 6y ago
badsectoracula 6y ago
> If I pay a premium for my platform, why would I want second rate cross platform software? Are you paying for your software or getting whatever you can find for free? If you are paying, is the software's leanness something you value - that is, will you buy some software because it is leaner over some other software that is heavier? Would that be even if the heavier software has more features? What sort of software have you bought? I'm asking seriously, not trolling - i've bought Total Commander myself exactly because it was lean (check: windows calculator vs one of the most feature packed file managers[0]) but i do not think there are many that value things like that. [0] https://i.imgur.com/LYzN3Cj.png https://i.imgur.com/LYzN3Cj.png
- rado 6y ago
  Just bought the wonderful native git client Fork, even though it works for free and the Electron GitHub Desktop is also free.
- scarface74 6y ago
  As far as desktop software, the only software I pay for are subscriptions to Office 365 and JetBrains R#. I don’t really use my personal computer for too much of anything besides Office and a Plex server - I paid for a Plex Pass solely to support the developer. On mobile, I’ll pay to remove ads and I won’t use any software or games where I can’t remove ads. With the economy in the crapper, I’m starting to voluntarily pay more to support my favorite content producers.
  - jasonlotito 6y ago
    This is funny because you just listed a bunch of cross platform software.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      The argument is not about cross platform software. It’s about native client software. Office is not written using one of the cross platform frameworks and is usually only around 3-9 months behind when it comes to taking advantage of new features as Apple releases them. Plex is server software. The UI is a web page. R# itself is a plug-in only for Visual Studio for Windows. Yes Rider is cross platform, but I don’t have a need for it. The only other software I mentioned are games. No one expects a native experience from games.
Barrin92 6y ago
> If I pay a premium for my platform this is something that you might value but I think it's fair to say it is already a minority position. phones and the web have become the primary platform for software delivery, and people do not treat their desktop if they even have one as some sort of premium platform, it's a terminal for the internet. at this point, people are probably more familiar with the look and feel of web applications than they are with native applications and value similarity across platforms over features of individual platforms. The operating system and the hardware are increasingly becoming irrelevant and a detail compared to the web on top.
- scarface74 6y ago
  Follow the money. People pay for what they value. Who is paying money for desktop software besides games, Office 365, and the Adobe Creative Suite? Who values desktop software enough to pay for it? I know in the Mac market at least, the few indy developers making money are not writing apps using cross platform SDKs.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Lots of business running Windows on their labs and using desktop software for various use cases, like data analysis. Plenty of money to be made desktop solutions to life sciences, manufacturing, factory automation, aren't plugging their air gaped dashboards to the web. Anyone doing music composition, graphics, animation, infotainment systems. In Europe there are enough Win32, WPF, UWP, Qt related jobs and consulting projects with hourly rates to do a comfortable living. As for B2C, it is always going to be an uphill battle regardless of the application type, there are only so many application types that one is willing to pay for outside established brands, and SaaS is a much better way to avoid piracy and get everyone to pay.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      We are speaking specifically about B2C where the users are the customers. But either way, you kind of made my point. Consumers aren't paying for applications built on cross platform frameworks outside of games.

jfkebwjsbx 6y ago

False dichotomy. Native applications can be cross-platform.