4 ms·

Wait, so you can move to a super expensive place and the company will subsidize your mortgage investment?

mjayhn 6y ago
My company generates revenue and my talent directly affects the revenue. The salary that you give me is correlated to that revenue that I help to generate. The company figured out my value when they made me an offer. My location during any of this transaction bears absolutely zero significance. If I'm worth $300k to generate $5mill for you don't worry about whether I'm living in NYC or on a ranch in Wyoming. If you're willing to take $60k for a remote job you can make $160k at because that's the actual global market value you're doing all of us in the field a disservice by working for the low COL wage. It's bad enough salaries have barely risen for other fields since the 70s. Our field can work anywhere but we need to make sure we don't let our salaries slide by letting the Gitlab style take hold. Often on hn I see people thinking they need to take a pay cut to work remotely. You don't! Same thing.
- johntiger1 6y ago
  Agree 100%. Same employee, working remotely, but they move somewhere else? Great, we pay them less even though it affects their performance in no way at all. Makes sense /s
- tiborsaas 6y ago
  When I was looking for remote work I had hard time finding any offer beyond 60k. Don't forget that there's a really high competition among applicants so someone will take those 60k offers. And when it's 8-10x their average salary in their home country, then you can't really blame them.
- bontaq 6y ago
  I'd also imagine remote employees are cheaper anyways because they don't require office space.
- the_gipsy 6y ago
  I live in Barcelona which is almost on par with Madrid. My plan for my next job is to get a remote job with Barcelona salary, then move to Canary Islands which is much cheaper but way nicer. I'm not really serious, I can probably get a better offer from a US company, but it still irks me.
roosterdawn 6y ago
I think you have things the wrong way around. If you are able to pass the interview bar for a selective company that pays market rate in a tier-1 tech city, then yes, you get to move. But, if you don't, you won't get the job whether you move there or not.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- rtkwe 6y ago
  No they're saying for a Gitlab employee moving to a higher COL area is essentially getting gitlab to pay for the mortgage (assuming the higher wage actually covers the increased mortgage of course). Adjusting by CoL is only good for the employer, if a worker is worth X working remote in SF they're worth the same amount in the middle of nowhere.
  - roosterdawn 6y ago
    Yeah I get it, I just don't buy it. Move to a higher COL area, and you tend to get access to a market with expanded labor demand. So, it's $HIGHER_COL_MARKET_EMPLOYER (or $HIGHER_COL_MARKET if you catch my drift) increases your wages which pays for your mortgage. But the competition tends to be fiercer in a higher COL area, so you are still not guaranteed even a median pay job in that area if you cannot get it. Many do not. The "higher COL area = higher pay" equation seems magical except it hides that it also includes higher competition.
    - rtkwe 6y ago
      But we're specifically talking about someone who already has a job at Gitlab here and how the CoL adjustment affects them and the weird situation it creates, so the competitiveness doesn't really matter, they've already got the job.
      - roosterdawn 6y ago
        > But we're specifically talking about someone who already has a job at Gitlab here and how the CoL adjustment affects them and the weird situation it creates, so the competitiveness doesn't really matter, they've already got the job. Of course the competitiveness matters. It informs the level of optionality and leverage they have to negotiate. I would say that it's the only thing that matters. What about the CoL adjustment is weird besides it being reflective of the somewhat ugly and distasteful truth that to the company, you are a human resource and fungible cog? That's what they're paying for. This employee will have to think about what happens if they do not come to a favorable agreement with their employer. Their BATNA completely depends on 1) the demand of other firms in the area (or remotely) and 2) their relative ability to compete. If they can perform well enough to move to a competing employer in the same locale that pays better, they will.
0xffff2 6y ago
Yep. Gitlab's salary formula is publicly available. You can go take a look. I'm currently in the bay area, but I would love to permanently move to Southern Oregon (where I already own a house). Gitlab's salary is normalized to the bay area (i.e. the bay area gets a 1x multiplier). If I wanted to do the exact same job from Oregon, my hypothetical salary at Gitlab would arbitrarily get multiplied by 0.6x... and that's why I'm never going to apply to Gitlab.

My company generates revenue and my talent directly affects the revenue. The salary that you give me is correlated to that revenue that I help to generate. The company figured out my value when they made me an offer. My location during any of this transaction bears absolutely zero significance. If I'm worth $300k to generate $5mill for you don't worry about whether I'm living in NYC or on a ranch in Wyoming. If you're willing to take $60k for a remote job you can make $160k at because that's the actual global market value you're doing all of us in the field a disservice by working for the low COL wage. It's bad enough salaries have barely risen for other fields since the 70s. Our field can work anywhere but we need to make sure we don't let our salaries slide by letting the Gitlab style take hold. Often on hn I see people thinking they need to take a pay cut to work remotely. You don't! Same thing.

johntiger1 6y ago
Agree 100%. Same employee, working remotely, but they move somewhere else? Great, we pay them less even though it affects their performance in no way at all. Makes sense /s
tiborsaas 6y ago
When I was looking for remote work I had hard time finding any offer beyond 60k. Don't forget that there's a really high competition among applicants so someone will take those 60k offers. And when it's 8-10x their average salary in their home country, then you can't really blame them.
bontaq 6y ago
I'd also imagine remote employees are cheaper anyways because they don't require office space.
the_gipsy 6y ago
I live in Barcelona which is almost on par with Madrid. My plan for my next job is to get a remote job with Barcelona salary, then move to Canary Islands which is much cheaper but way nicer. I'm not really serious, I can probably get a better offer from a US company, but it still irks me.

roosterdawn 6y ago

I think you have things the wrong way around. If you are able to pass the interview bar for a selective company that pays market rate in a tier-1 tech city, then yes, you get to move. But, if you don't, you won't get the job whether you move there or not.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
rtkwe 6y ago
No they're saying for a Gitlab employee moving to a higher COL area is essentially getting gitlab to pay for the mortgage (assuming the higher wage actually covers the increased mortgage of course). Adjusting by CoL is only good for the employer, if a worker is worth X working remote in SF they're worth the same amount in the middle of nowhere.
- roosterdawn 6y ago
  Yeah I get it, I just don't buy it. Move to a higher COL area, and you tend to get access to a market with expanded labor demand. So, it's $HIGHER_COL_MARKET_EMPLOYER (or $HIGHER_COL_MARKET if you catch my drift) increases your wages which pays for your mortgage. But the competition tends to be fiercer in a higher COL area, so you are still not guaranteed even a median pay job in that area if you cannot get it. Many do not. The "higher COL area = higher pay" equation seems magical except it hides that it also includes higher competition.
  - rtkwe 6y ago
    But we're specifically talking about someone who already has a job at Gitlab here and how the CoL adjustment affects them and the weird situation it creates, so the competitiveness doesn't really matter, they've already got the job.
    - roosterdawn 6y ago
      > But we're specifically talking about someone who already has a job at Gitlab here and how the CoL adjustment affects them and the weird situation it creates, so the competitiveness doesn't really matter, they've already got the job. Of course the competitiveness matters. It informs the level of optionality and leverage they have to negotiate. I would say that it's the only thing that matters. What about the CoL adjustment is weird besides it being reflective of the somewhat ugly and distasteful truth that to the company, you are a human resource and fungible cog? That's what they're paying for. This employee will have to think about what happens if they do not come to a favorable agreement with their employer. Their BATNA completely depends on 1) the demand of other firms in the area (or remotely) and 2) their relative ability to compete. If they can perform well enough to move to a competing employer in the same locale that pays better, they will.

0xffff2 6y ago

Yep. Gitlab's salary formula is publicly available. You can go take a look. I'm currently in the bay area, but I would love to permanently move to Southern Oregon (where I already own a house). Gitlab's salary is normalized to the bay area (i.e. the bay area gets a 1x multiplier). If I wanted to do the exact same job from Oregon, my hypothetical salary at Gitlab would arbitrarily get multiplied by 0.6x... and that's why I'm never going to apply to Gitlab.