5 ms·

I won't go near an open office after COVID19 and I doubt I'm alone, I think things will change greatly.

by mjayhn 6y ago

_nhynes 6y ago
I'm not sure that I understand this sentiment. Is the worry about COVID specifically (and hence would be abated by a vaccine or herd immunity), or is it about increased awareness of all infectious diseases? My lack of understanding stems from a (perhaps naive) assumption that social distancing will eventually go away along with the threat. I'd be glad to hear others' opinions on the matter.
- TylerE 6y ago
  It is unlikely the vaccine will be perfect. Strains mutate. Plenty of people still get the flu despite a flu vaccine.
- mjayhn 6y ago
  I was already sick of getting sick 3-5 times a year just being in an open office, the fact that I'm more aware now that I can get something that will do more than knock me out of being able to code for a week is a huge deterrent to me ever wanting to work in a hamster cage surrounded by hundreds of other people with hundreds interactions with whoever. I mean, I'm not a germophobe or something but I already thought it was gross how often I got sick and I'm 100% certain it was from my office environment, now I have a real reason that "suck it up stupid" doesn't just brush away. Every winter someones kid gets sick then it just blasts through the open office. Then it happens 3 weeks later, then again, then again..I'm pretty sure I got sick 3 times earlier this year, maybe 4.
  - cameronbrown 6y ago
    Wait, do people in your office not take sick days when they get ill or something?
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      Do they in yours? Every office I've ever worked in has offered unlimited sick days, and in every one there was a segment of people who just insisted on coming in sick anyway. When coronavirus was ramping up, the executives at my current place sent out series of increasingly severe messages that you must not come into work sick.
      - RussianCow 6y ago
        And if you don't have unlimited sick days, it's much worse because people refuse to stay home so as not to use up their allotted time off. My wife used to work at a place that lumped PTO and sick days together, and it definitely created a culture of coming into work no matter how sick you are (especially if you already have plans to use your PTO).
        ikeyany 6y ago
        What difference does it make if you did the "right" thing by using up all of your sick days by September and then have to go into work with a cold in November?
        RussianCow 6y ago
        You don't know if you will or won't use sick days in the future, so IMO, you should use them as soon as you get sick, instead of "banking" them and hoping you need them later. But either way, I was arguing more against companies that don't offer unlimited sick days than employees who don't take them. I think having a limited number (or worse, lumping them in with PTO) actively encourages people to come into work sick.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - irrational 6y ago
      I could take off about three months of vacation right now, but I don’t because I’m so busy that I know that taking time off and then playing catch up is worse than not taking time off at all.
  - goldforever 6y ago
    This means you have immune system issues. Get it sorted out.
  - mixmastamyk 6y ago
    Sounds like you’re vitamin D deficient. After a good workout, your immune system should be getting stronger, not weaker. I take 5k a day or so, Trader Joe’s has for $5.
- luspr 6y ago
  It will go away. I'm in Europe where things are closer to normal already. I meet friends, people go shopping (with hygiene measures and masks), schools and gyms are opening. Also keep in mind that there was always a threat of infectious diseases. And it will persist until we find a universal cure for all viruses. Being somewhat of a germophobe myself, I was always aware of it. Hopefully, people will stay at home when they are sick, though.
  - scurvy 6y ago
    Europe tech has always been different than US tech scene. The societies are very different. Here, the armed protesters demand haircuts and tattoos. In Europe, the French are flooding Spanish border towns in search of cheaper booze and smokes. Yes, hyperbole, but a lot of Americans have legit apprehension about cramming into elevators to ride up office towers to work. It's seen as glamourous in the UK to work in a Canary Wharf office tower with a view. In the US, notsomuch. Edit: I know people who still won't go into tall buildings post 9/11. Something that Europeans don't have in their psyche.
Shivetya 6y ago
with an outlook like this why would you go anywhere? an office you have at least a chance of professionalism which is far different than what you can encounter in the open
- _jal 6y ago
  Offices are great places to spread infection. I'm not sure how to quantify how much it matters to me that I become diseased in a respectful manner, but it isn't very much. Here is an well-documented analysis of a specific outbreak in an office: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/8/20-1274_article https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/8/20-1274_article "We described the epidemiologic characteristics of a COVID-19 outbreak centered in a call center in South Korea. We identified 97 confirmed COVID-19 case-patients in building X, indicating an attack rate of 8.5%. However, if we restrict our results the 11th floor, the attack rate was as high as 43.5%."

I won't go near an open office after COVID19 and I doubt I'm alone, I think things will change greatly.

by mjayhn 6y ago

I won't go near an open office after COVID19 and I doubt I'm alone, I think things will change greatly.

I'm not sure that I understand this sentiment. Is the worry about COVID specifically (and hence would be abated by a vaccine or herd immunity), or is it about increased awareness of all infectious diseases? My lack of understanding stems from a (perhaps naive) assumption that social distancing will eventually go away along with the threat. I'd be glad to hear others' opinions on the matter.

TylerE 6y ago
It is unlikely the vaccine will be perfect. Strains mutate. Plenty of people still get the flu despite a flu vaccine.
mjayhn 6y ago
I was already sick of getting sick 3-5 times a year just being in an open office, the fact that I'm more aware now that I can get something that will do more than knock me out of being able to code for a week is a huge deterrent to me ever wanting to work in a hamster cage surrounded by hundreds of other people with hundreds interactions with whoever. I mean, I'm not a germophobe or something but I already thought it was gross how often I got sick and I'm 100% certain it was from my office environment, now I have a real reason that "suck it up stupid" doesn't just brush away. Every winter someones kid gets sick then it just blasts through the open office. Then it happens 3 weeks later, then again, then again..I'm pretty sure I got sick 3 times earlier this year, maybe 4.
- cameronbrown 6y ago
  Wait, do people in your office not take sick days when they get ill or something?
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    Do they in yours? Every office I've ever worked in has offered unlimited sick days, and in every one there was a segment of people who just insisted on coming in sick anyway. When coronavirus was ramping up, the executives at my current place sent out series of increasingly severe messages that you must not come into work sick.
    - RussianCow 6y ago
      And if you don't have unlimited sick days, it's much worse because people refuse to stay home so as not to use up their allotted time off. My wife used to work at a place that lumped PTO and sick days together, and it definitely created a culture of coming into work no matter how sick you are (especially if you already have plans to use your PTO).
      - ikeyany 6y ago
        What difference does it make if you did the "right" thing by using up all of your sick days by September and then have to go into work with a cold in November?
        RussianCow 6y ago
        You don't know if you will or won't use sick days in the future, so IMO, you should use them as soon as you get sick, instead of "banking" them and hoping you need them later. But either way, I was arguing more against companies that don't offer unlimited sick days than employees who don't take them. I think having a limited number (or worse, lumping them in with PTO) actively encourages people to come into work sick.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - irrational 6y ago
    I could take off about three months of vacation right now, but I don’t because I’m so busy that I know that taking time off and then playing catch up is worse than not taking time off at all.
- goldforever 6y ago
  This means you have immune system issues. Get it sorted out.
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  Sounds like you’re vitamin D deficient. After a good workout, your immune system should be getting stronger, not weaker. I take 5k a day or so, Trader Joe’s has for $5.
luspr 6y ago
It will go away. I'm in Europe where things are closer to normal already. I meet friends, people go shopping (with hygiene measures and masks), schools and gyms are opening. Also keep in mind that there was always a threat of infectious diseases. And it will persist until we find a universal cure for all viruses. Being somewhat of a germophobe myself, I was always aware of it. Hopefully, people will stay at home when they are sick, though.
- scurvy 6y ago
  Europe tech has always been different than US tech scene. The societies are very different. Here, the armed protesters demand haircuts and tattoos. In Europe, the French are flooding Spanish border towns in search of cheaper booze and smokes. Yes, hyperbole, but a lot of Americans have legit apprehension about cramming into elevators to ride up office towers to work. It's seen as glamourous in the UK to work in a Canary Wharf office tower with a view. In the US, notsomuch. Edit: I know people who still won't go into tall buildings post 9/11. Something that Europeans don't have in their psyche.

Shivetya 6y ago

with an outlook like this why would you go anywhere? an office you have at least a chance of professionalism which is far different than what you can encounter in the open

_jal 6y ago
Offices are great places to spread infection. I'm not sure how to quantify how much it matters to me that I become diseased in a respectful manner, but it isn't very much. Here is an well-documented analysis of a specific outbreak in an office: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/8/20-1274_article https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/8/20-1274_article "We described the epidemiologic characteristics of a COVID-19 outbreak centered in a call center in South Korea. We identified 97 confirmed COVID-19 case-patients in building X, indicating an attack rate of 8.5%. However, if we restrict our results the 11th floor, the attack rate was as high as 43.5%."