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> The chief executive announced the plans on Twitter Monday: “I will be on the line with everyone else,” he wrote. “If anyone is arrested, I ask that it only be

by aazaa 6y ago

> The chief executive announced the plans on Twitter Monday: “I will be on the line with everyone else,” he wrote. “If anyone is arrested, I ask that it only be me.” Translation: my employees now must weigh the consequences of losing their jobs on the one hand vs. being arrested on the other. What guarantees, if any, has Tesla has given its employees in the event of prosecution and or other consequences of violating state law?

koheripbal 6y ago
All employees have been told that they may stay home if they aren't comfortable at all - full pay. This is entirely optional.
- mratzloff 6y ago
  Even if that were true (it is not, as far as I can tell), they would know that it will be tracked and could possibly be used against them later. Never make employees choose between a paycheck and following the law.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    It's not true because it could possibly be used against them in the future? You're claiming it's definitely not true because MAYBE they might be punished? How is that a logical statement?
    - mratzloff 6y ago
      No, I'm saying I searched online and found nothing to corroborate your statement.
fnord77 6y ago
and catching a potentially fatal illness on the third hand. Yeah the risk is probably small now, but it is still a risk.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Is it going to stop being a risk in a few weeks? I'm sure we can agree that a ban on auto manufacturing is unsustainable.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    Why not? A lot of people aren’t putting many miles on their vehicles while all this is going on. A lockdown that keeps Tesla closed is going to reduce demand for new cars for related reasons.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      Driving is only down about a third from pre-pandemic levels. But more broadly, we can't centrally plan which things people do or don't need over the long term. It just isn't an effective economic strategy.
      - themacguffinman 6y ago
        But this isn't long term. A few months is a far cry for long term.
        therealjumbo 6y ago
        A few more months isn't going to give us a vaccine so at worst that's just causing more economic damage, leaving hospitals empty and moving the pandemic two months into the future. At best you open back up with safety procedures, and limit the spread. But there's no reason you can't do that exact same thing today. Also, I agree with Musk that an indefinite lockdown is unconstitutional. And if it's not, I want our laws changed so it is. It may be a good idea health-wise (or may not, see increased suicides) but that doesn't make it legal and letting an unelected official impose an indefinite lockdown is just bad policy. So if the local authority couldn't give a deadline, I'd tell them to piss off too.
        SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
downerending 6y ago
We can all see that they are not going to arrest line employees. Even CA government isn't that foolish.
6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
From what I can tell, employees would still be totally culpable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duress_in_American_law#Requirements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duress_in_American_law#Require...
- product50 6y ago
  Stop being a lawyer and making assumptions.
  - gamblor956 6y ago
    He's right... The employees are still be culpable for their own actions since economic forces do not constitute "duress." However, it is extremely unlikely that local prosecutors would pursue charges against the employees. Rather, if they were to pursue this case, the prosecutors would likely just grant them immunity to testify against the boss that forced them to break the law or lose their jobs.
product50 6y ago
Read more about things. Don't be ignorant. Everything is opt in. Employees can choose not to come. Also, factories all over US (Ford, GM) and California have already opened up. Just that Alameda county, which is not even close to being a hotspot, is proving to be difficult. Elon is pushing the county's hands here and he will likely win.
- sillysaurusx 6y ago
  "Employees can choose not to come" doesn't jive with the experience of 99% of the American workforce. What makes Tesla special? Did they give permission for employees to choose not to come? Often if you choose not to come to work, you choose not to get a paycheck: https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1259981671186587648 https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1259981671186587648
  - 34679 6y ago
    Why would you expect a paycheck if you choose not to work?
    - product50 6y ago
      Entitlements
    - travisjungroth 6y ago
      Because choosing to work in this case means breaking the law.
- CypherSnyper 6y ago
  Instead of using ad-hominem and calling other people ignorant, how about you make your own case?
- mratzloff 6y ago
  Detroit auto makers aim to reopen factories May 18 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/detroit-auto-makers-aim-to-reopen-factories-may-18-2020-04-27 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/detroit-auto-makers-aim-to...
34679 6y ago
>Translation: my employees now must weigh the consequences of losing their jobs on the one hand vs. being arrested on the other. "First, I’d like to be super clear that if you feel the slightest bit ill or even uncomfortable, please don’t feel obligated to come to work. I will personally be at work, but that is just me. Totally OK if you want to stay home for any reason." https://electrek.co/2020/03/17/elon-musk-tesla-coronavirus-panic-email/ https://electrek.co/2020/03/17/elon-musk-tesla-coronavirus-p...
- GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
  I'm guessing the workers at his factories need to come to work anyways. A paycheck is a paycheck.
  - Houshalter 6y ago
    US unemployment is extremely generous.
    - foota 6y ago
      I don't think this is true relative to international expectations? It's certainly more than it was pre-covid, but isn't it still limited time and low income for a high cost of living area?
      - Houshalter 6y ago
        I have been paid $3,232 to sit at home and do nothing the last month. Not including the stimulus check I haven't cashed yet. I would have made about $3,000 in the same time. That is completely insane to me. I do not see how that isn't extremely generous. I don't see how it's sustainable either.
        foota 6y ago
        That's hardly extremely generous for a city. Many people have rents between 1-2k which each up a third to two thirds of that. I realize it may be generous in your situation though. Re: affordability/sustainability, the alternative is possibly a recession as great or worse than the great depression, so the government is willing to borrow as much as it can to prop up consumer spending during the crisis. The idea being that if we continue spending we can avoid a demand crash and recover quickly once we can stop social distancing safely.

by aazaa 6y ago

koheripbal 6y ago

All employees have been told that they may stay home if they aren't comfortable at all - full pay. This is entirely optional.

mratzloff 6y ago
Even if that were true (it is not, as far as I can tell), they would know that it will be tracked and could possibly be used against them later. Never make employees choose between a paycheck and following the law.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  It's not true because it could possibly be used against them in the future? You're claiming it's definitely not true because MAYBE they might be punished? How is that a logical statement?
  - mratzloff 6y ago
    No, I'm saying I searched online and found nothing to corroborate your statement.

fnord77 6y ago

and catching a potentially fatal illness on the third hand. Yeah the risk is probably small now, but it is still a risk.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Is it going to stop being a risk in a few weeks? I'm sure we can agree that a ban on auto manufacturing is unsustainable.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  Why not? A lot of people aren’t putting many miles on their vehicles while all this is going on. A lockdown that keeps Tesla closed is going to reduce demand for new cars for related reasons.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    Driving is only down about a third from pre-pandemic levels. But more broadly, we can't centrally plan which things people do or don't need over the long term. It just isn't an effective economic strategy.
    - themacguffinman 6y ago
      But this isn't long term. A few months is a far cry for long term.
      - therealjumbo 6y ago
        A few more months isn't going to give us a vaccine so at worst that's just causing more economic damage, leaving hospitals empty and moving the pandemic two months into the future. At best you open back up with safety procedures, and limit the spread. But there's no reason you can't do that exact same thing today. Also, I agree with Musk that an indefinite lockdown is unconstitutional. And if it's not, I want our laws changed so it is. It may be a good idea health-wise (or may not, see increased suicides) but that doesn't make it legal and letting an unelected official impose an indefinite lockdown is just bad policy. So if the local authority couldn't give a deadline, I'd tell them to piss off too.
      - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

downerending 6y ago

We can all see that they are not going to arrest line employees. Even CA government isn't that foolish.

6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago

From what I can tell, employees would still be totally culpable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duress_in_American_law#Requirements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duress_in_American_law#Require...

product50 6y ago
Stop being a lawyer and making assumptions.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  He's right... The employees are still be culpable for their own actions since economic forces do not constitute "duress." However, it is extremely unlikely that local prosecutors would pursue charges against the employees. Rather, if they were to pursue this case, the prosecutors would likely just grant them immunity to testify against the boss that forced them to break the law or lose their jobs.

product50 6y ago

Read more about things. Don't be ignorant. Everything is opt in. Employees can choose not to come. Also, factories all over US (Ford, GM) and California have already opened up. Just that Alameda county, which is not even close to being a hotspot, is proving to be difficult. Elon is pushing the county's hands here and he will likely win.

sillysaurusx 6y ago
"Employees can choose not to come" doesn't jive with the experience of 99% of the American workforce. What makes Tesla special? Did they give permission for employees to choose not to come? Often if you choose not to come to work, you choose not to get a paycheck: https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1259981671186587648 https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1259981671186587648
- 34679 6y ago
  Why would you expect a paycheck if you choose not to work?
  - product50 6y ago
    Entitlements
  - travisjungroth 6y ago
    Because choosing to work in this case means breaking the law.
CypherSnyper 6y ago
Instead of using ad-hominem and calling other people ignorant, how about you make your own case?
mratzloff 6y ago
Detroit auto makers aim to reopen factories May 18 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/detroit-auto-makers-aim-to-reopen-factories-may-18-2020-04-27 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/detroit-auto-makers-aim-to...

34679 6y ago

>Translation: my employees now must weigh the consequences of losing their jobs on the one hand vs. being arrested on the other. "First, I’d like to be super clear that if you feel the slightest bit ill or even uncomfortable, please don’t feel obligated to come to work. I will personally be at work, but that is just me. Totally OK if you want to stay home for any reason." https://electrek.co/2020/03/17/elon-musk-tesla-coronavirus-panic-email/ https://electrek.co/2020/03/17/elon-musk-tesla-coronavirus-p...

GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
I'm guessing the workers at his factories need to come to work anyways. A paycheck is a paycheck.
- Houshalter 6y ago
  US unemployment is extremely generous.
  - foota 6y ago
    I don't think this is true relative to international expectations? It's certainly more than it was pre-covid, but isn't it still limited time and low income for a high cost of living area?
    - Houshalter 6y ago
      I have been paid $3,232 to sit at home and do nothing the last month. Not including the stimulus check I haven't cashed yet. I would have made about $3,000 in the same time. That is completely insane to me. I do not see how that isn't extremely generous. I don't see how it's sustainable either.
      - foota 6y ago
        That's hardly extremely generous for a city. Many people have rents between 1-2k which each up a third to two thirds of that. I realize it may be generous in your situation though. Re: affordability/sustainability, the alternative is possibly a recession as great or worse than the great depression, so the government is willing to borrow as much as it can to prop up consumer spending during the crisis. The idea being that if we continue spending we can avoid a demand crash and recover quickly once we can stop social distancing safely.