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Courts generally don't take kindly to this sort of thing. And Tesla probably needs a business license to operate. Musk expects Alameda County and the State of C

Courts generally don't take kindly to this sort of thing. And Tesla probably needs a business license to operate. Musk expects Alameda County and the State of CA to support his profits over common sense, caution, and the rule of law; but Tesla isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to the size of the California economy. He may be noisy, but he's not as important as he seems to think.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
Then let it be settled in court, and California prove their case for the order. That is the point of this, and why Musk will be on the line and announcing it publicly on Twitter. Checks and balances.
- secfirstmd 6y ago
  I'm a Elon Musk fan in general but what about "duty of care" to his staff? Also what other laws can he (or anyone else) choose to violate? What if a cigarette factory owner decides to violate smoking health guidelines by selling to kids on the basis they reject parts of the science about the state's decision?
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    Is it not a moral obligation to perform civil disobedience when challenging a law you believe unjust? He asks for only himself to be arrested! Regarding duty of care, 43 states are reopening already. Are they wrong? Can you prove they’re wrong to do so? Shouldn’t there be a burden of proof if you as the government require a business to remain shuttered when the vast majority of states are reopening?
    - secfirstmd 6y ago
      Civil disobedience? This isn't marching against Jim Crow, this is about Covid-19. If he wants to express that opinion fine, but what about the health of the staff he is making go to work?
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        How long do you propose we don’t go back to work for?
        dekhn 6y ago
        He already had an agreement for the factory to open in 1 week. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/09/business/coronavirus-elon-musk-tesla-california.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/09/business/coronavirus-elon... “We were working on a lot of policies and procedures to help operate that plant and quite frankly, I think Tesla did a pretty good job, and that’s why I had it to the point where on May 18, Tesla would have opened,” Mr. Haggerty said. “I know Elon knew that. But he wanted it this week.” so 1 more week beyond today is what the officials were planning on.
    - M2Ys4U 6y ago
      > Is it not a moral obligation to perform civil disobedience when challenging a law you believe unjust? He asks for only himself to be arrested! Then he should be the only one in the factory
  - matz1 6y ago
    I'm Elon musk fan too >what about "duty of care" to his staff? Its not like Elon harm his staff by opening, >Also what other laws can he (or anyone else) choose to violate? In general, every law can be violated, broken, bend. It boil down to the pros vs the cons for you.
    - ranbumo 6y ago
      I don't see how this qualifies as harmless. He is putting every single employee under economic duress to potentially expose themselves to covid and defy a gov order.
      - matz1 6y ago
        Going to work doesn't mean you are going to be infected. Being infected doesn't mean you are going to have the symptom. Having the symptom doesn't mean its going to be severe symptom. Having severe symptom doesn't mean you going to be hospitalized. Simply driving a car during normal situation can potentially expose you death as well.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    This is only relevant if there are a meaningful number of cases in Alameda - which there aren't.
- dekhn 6y ago
  His tirade is over a 1-week difference (the county already had an agreement that he could start May 18). The court case won't resolve in 1 week, so it is unclear what he expects to achieve by opening 1 week early, by filing a lawsuit, and threatening to leave.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    So what’s the big deal? If the county doesn’t like it, arrest him and let a court rule on their authority. As a Tesla investor, I support the relocation of Fremont production capacity out of California. If this speeds that up (even if it’s simply a public circus exercise), I have no complaints.
    - dekhn 6y ago
      I don't see any reason for public brinkmanship to achieve this. Just seems... imprudent? Further, if his decision really does expose workers to higher risk (that was preventable), it moves the burden from the health authorities to him.
    - AlexandrB 6y ago
      > As a Tesla investor, I support the relocation of Fremont production capacity out of California. You've pinpointed the most important issue here. The health of your portfolio!
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        Not quite. I expect no value from my Tesla stock, literally zero. I only care about the rapid electrification of transportation and utility scale energy storage deployment. It’s incredibly clear how rapidly we as a species are headed towards the climate change wall, and besides Tesla (and some electric utilities), no one has the swiftness the gravity of the situation dictates. This should be the equivalent of a war time effort, but it's not, and that is insanity.
        marvin 6y ago
subsubzero 6y ago
Agreed. But a reminder that if tesla leaves it follows a long list of very large companies that have left California in the past few years, Bechtel, Toyota US, Chevron, Carls Jr, Jamba Juice, Numira Bio, Nestle US, Jacobs Engineering etc..
- luckydata 6y ago
  and it has mattered zero.
- crazygringo 6y ago
  That's no indictment of California, though. As companies become larger and more profitable, as a general rule they move as much of their workforce as possible to lower-wage locations, whether less expensive states or less expensive countries. Business in California is booming, which is precisely what drives wages up. Companies leaving allows other new vibrant businesses to hire the old workers. The state isn't losing out at all. Compared with other countries, California by itself would have the 5th highest GDP in the world. It's a roaring success.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    This is exactly why businesses should leave - they aren't wanted.
  - refurb 6y ago
    That's an interesting take on things. I would say that California has a strong economy in spite of it's government. Not because of it.
- Barrin92 6y ago
  And yet California's economy is larger than the bottom half of US states combined and the fifth-largest economy in the world if it was a sovereign country.
DeonPenny 6y ago
I would be so glib cause the people in almeda county and how local politics are so important this will be a problem. Tesla is a huge employer in almeda county and fremont. Not a lot of tech there.

toomuchtodo 6y ago

Then let it be settled in court, and California prove their case for the order. That is the point of this, and why Musk will be on the line and announcing it publicly on Twitter. Checks and balances.

secfirstmd 6y ago
I'm a Elon Musk fan in general but what about "duty of care" to his staff? Also what other laws can he (or anyone else) choose to violate? What if a cigarette factory owner decides to violate smoking health guidelines by selling to kids on the basis they reject parts of the science about the state's decision?
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  Is it not a moral obligation to perform civil disobedience when challenging a law you believe unjust? He asks for only himself to be arrested! Regarding duty of care, 43 states are reopening already. Are they wrong? Can you prove they’re wrong to do so? Shouldn’t there be a burden of proof if you as the government require a business to remain shuttered when the vast majority of states are reopening?
  - secfirstmd 6y ago
    Civil disobedience? This isn't marching against Jim Crow, this is about Covid-19. If he wants to express that opinion fine, but what about the health of the staff he is making go to work?
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      How long do you propose we don’t go back to work for?
      - dekhn 6y ago
        He already had an agreement for the factory to open in 1 week. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/09/business/coronavirus-elon-musk-tesla-california.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/09/business/coronavirus-elon... “We were working on a lot of policies and procedures to help operate that plant and quite frankly, I think Tesla did a pretty good job, and that’s why I had it to the point where on May 18, Tesla would have opened,” Mr. Haggerty said. “I know Elon knew that. But he wanted it this week.” so 1 more week beyond today is what the officials were planning on.
  - M2Ys4U 6y ago
    > Is it not a moral obligation to perform civil disobedience when challenging a law you believe unjust? He asks for only himself to be arrested! Then he should be the only one in the factory
- matz1 6y ago
  I'm Elon musk fan too >what about "duty of care" to his staff? Its not like Elon harm his staff by opening, >Also what other laws can he (or anyone else) choose to violate? In general, every law can be violated, broken, bend. It boil down to the pros vs the cons for you.
  - ranbumo 6y ago
    I don't see how this qualifies as harmless. He is putting every single employee under economic duress to potentially expose themselves to covid and defy a gov order.
    - matz1 6y ago
      Going to work doesn't mean you are going to be infected. Being infected doesn't mean you are going to have the symptom. Having the symptom doesn't mean its going to be severe symptom. Having severe symptom doesn't mean you going to be hospitalized. Simply driving a car during normal situation can potentially expose you death as well.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  This is only relevant if there are a meaningful number of cases in Alameda - which there aren't.
dekhn 6y ago
His tirade is over a 1-week difference (the county already had an agreement that he could start May 18). The court case won't resolve in 1 week, so it is unclear what he expects to achieve by opening 1 week early, by filing a lawsuit, and threatening to leave.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  So what’s the big deal? If the county doesn’t like it, arrest him and let a court rule on their authority. As a Tesla investor, I support the relocation of Fremont production capacity out of California. If this speeds that up (even if it’s simply a public circus exercise), I have no complaints.
  - dekhn 6y ago
    I don't see any reason for public brinkmanship to achieve this. Just seems... imprudent? Further, if his decision really does expose workers to higher risk (that was preventable), it moves the burden from the health authorities to him.
  - AlexandrB 6y ago
    > As a Tesla investor, I support the relocation of Fremont production capacity out of California. You've pinpointed the most important issue here. The health of your portfolio!
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      Not quite. I expect no value from my Tesla stock, literally zero. I only care about the rapid electrification of transportation and utility scale energy storage deployment. It’s incredibly clear how rapidly we as a species are headed towards the climate change wall, and besides Tesla (and some electric utilities), no one has the swiftness the gravity of the situation dictates. This should be the equivalent of a war time effort, but it's not, and that is insanity.
      - marvin 6y ago

subsubzero 6y ago

Agreed. But a reminder that if tesla leaves it follows a long list of very large companies that have left California in the past few years, Bechtel, Toyota US, Chevron, Carls Jr, Jamba Juice, Numira Bio, Nestle US, Jacobs Engineering etc..

luckydata 6y ago
and it has mattered zero.
crazygringo 6y ago
That's no indictment of California, though. As companies become larger and more profitable, as a general rule they move as much of their workforce as possible to lower-wage locations, whether less expensive states or less expensive countries. Business in California is booming, which is precisely what drives wages up. Companies leaving allows other new vibrant businesses to hire the old workers. The state isn't losing out at all. Compared with other countries, California by itself would have the 5th highest GDP in the world. It's a roaring success.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  This is exactly why businesses should leave - they aren't wanted.
- refurb 6y ago
  That's an interesting take on things. I would say that California has a strong economy in spite of it's government. Not because of it.
Barrin92 6y ago
And yet California's economy is larger than the bottom half of US states combined and the fifth-largest economy in the world if it was a sovereign country.

DeonPenny 6y ago

I would be so glib cause the people in almeda county and how local politics are so important this will be a problem. Tesla is a huge employer in almeda county and fremont. Not a lot of tech there.