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What I really don't get is how companies get away with shipping any model that has 4GB of RAM. I mean,come on, it's 2020. The OS running idle probably needs mor

What I really don't get is how companies get away with shipping any model that has 4GB of RAM. I mean,come on, it's 2020. The OS running idle probably needs more than that,not even mentioning opening a few tabs in Chrome.

rsynnott 6y ago
They're trying to hit a headline price (albeit for a model that no-one should ever buy). This is fairly common, though it's a particularly egregious example; even Apple puts 8GB in their headline-price-don't-buy machines these days.
- mcny 6y ago
  That and Apple puts an NVMe SSD iirc and not eMMC. Even the Lenovo flex 14 with Ryzen 5 3500u I have has 12GB RAM and 256GB NVMe storage. It was US $450 on Amazon for Black Friday. I doubt Lenovo/Amazon sold it for a loss. Microsoft definitely could hit $400 price point with a surface Go that was worth buying if it wanted to... From the article > It’s also worth noting what you actually get if you buy the $399 model. For starters, there’s no keyboard. And the keyboard is really the thing here. After all, that sort of convertibility is a huge part of the motivation for buying a Surface in the first place. Along with the full Windows 10 experience, you’ll want the sort of productivity that requires a keyboard. That will run you $99-$129. > A harder pill to swallow is the processor upgrade. Similar to the MacBook Air I just reviewed, the real top-line component refresh mentioned in the press material requires a not inconsequential premium. Microsoft heavily advertised the addition of the eighth-gen Intel core line, which was heralded as helping transform the Go into a proper laptop. The base level, however sports the Intel Pentium 4425Y, chip, far more in line with the original’s 4415Y — one of the bigger issues reviewers had with the first Go. Now the R5 3500u isn't a desktop class processor by any means but I am pretty sure it is better than a Pentium. https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-intel_pentium_gold_4425y-1230-vs-amd_ryzen_5_3500u-900 https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-intel_pentium_gold... Once again, I believe it is possible to hit $400 with respectable specifications. You just have to be willing to make a smaller/no profit.
- Tsiklon 6y ago
  I think in Apple's case for many buyers (consumer and corporate) the "headline-price-don't-buy" machines are the machines that move the most units. Anecdotally at both my current and previous employer - the "default" Apple notebook handed out was a 13" 2 port non-touchbar machine, which was for several years the least expensive MacBook Pro available.
  - rsynnott 6y ago
    Oh, I'm sure it is for the Surface Go, too.
numlock86 6y ago
IIRC Windows 10 is able to run with as few as 256 MB of RAM these days.
- chrisan 6y ago
  It depends on the use case https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/minimum-hardware-requirements-overview https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/min... 256MB for IoT without display, 512MB with display For Mobile or desktop editions they say to have 1GB or higher for 32 bit (which I assume is the use case for a Surface)
  - numlock86 6y ago
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-10-192mb-ram https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-10-192mb-ram
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- solarkraft 6y ago
  And what modern application is?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
izacus 6y ago
It's trying to compete against iPads, which don't have more than 4GB of RAM in most SKUs either.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  Maybe, but iPads don't run desktop apps.
- unix_fan 6y ago
  But ipads don't have to run windows. Which Makes it actually reasonable.
NikolaNovak 6y ago
My instinct is the same - I have two computers with 32GB RAM, and it always feels well-utilized :) But I also have two cheapo media computers with Win10, 2GB RAM, 32GB MMC hard drive. They've been working BRILLIANTLY over last ~2 years. Even went through major Windows self-updates... no clue how. Is there a version of Win10 better optimized for smaller footprints, or it's the same version but recognizes its limitations, I'm not sure. But we've been browsing the web, watching movies, even playing some dinky games. So I can see 4GB actually being usable for many many people (NOT ones with multiple VMs etc of course:).
- jrace 6y ago
  My experience with hundreds of win10 machine in an enterprise environment has been that disk speed has a far greater impact than ram. 16GB ram with a HDD is a much slower and sluggish experience than 4GB ram with a ssd. This is for the general office use case.
  - tracker1 6y ago
    Until you're using more than 16gb of ram and hit a wall... If you're doing full stack development with a few containers, database(s) and other services (rabbit, etc) you can easily eat 16gb. I rarely go much over 20gb though. What pisses me off looking for a new personal laptop (not my work one) is so many of the best options have oddly gimped single-channel memory upgrade options (8gb soldered, 8gb in single slot) or have oddly limited GPU options on higher end AMD models (4800H in particular).
- ableal 6y ago
  I echo the experience with "two cheapo media computers with Win10, 2GB RAM, 32GB MMC hard drive. They've been working BRILLIANTLY". I have a couple of 2013 or 2014 vintage Asus T-100 TA (tablets with detachable keyboard) around the house still working like champs at tablet duties. I think they've been upgrade from the original Windows 8, and they even work with the Office 2013 apps that came included in the 300 euro sale price for each. Not main work machines, but nice spares, and good for web, PDFs, tube and light games. And I get my fix of Metro Design interface not available on phones any more ...
numpad0 6y ago
DDR4 DRAM draws about 1.5W per 4GB, regardless of chip counts.
juped 6y ago
It's a tablet. It's the best tablet, because it runs a real operating system rather than a crippled "mobile OS", but it's still a tablet.
choward 6y ago
I think it's pretty absurd too especially since I just bought a raspberry pi 4 for under $100 that has the same amount of RAM. If I'm spending that much for a computer it has to be better than that.
chihuahua 6y ago
This is not true. On my Windows laptop with 4GB, there's 2GB free when running Chrome/Edge with a few tabs, and almost 1GB free when I open Teams in addition to the browser.

rsynnott 6y ago

They're trying to hit a headline price (albeit for a model that no-one should ever buy). This is fairly common, though it's a particularly egregious example; even Apple puts 8GB in their headline-price-don't-buy machines these days.

mcny 6y ago
That and Apple puts an NVMe SSD iirc and not eMMC. Even the Lenovo flex 14 with Ryzen 5 3500u I have has 12GB RAM and 256GB NVMe storage. It was US $450 on Amazon for Black Friday. I doubt Lenovo/Amazon sold it for a loss. Microsoft definitely could hit $400 price point with a surface Go that was worth buying if it wanted to... From the article > It’s also worth noting what you actually get if you buy the $399 model. For starters, there’s no keyboard. And the keyboard is really the thing here. After all, that sort of convertibility is a huge part of the motivation for buying a Surface in the first place. Along with the full Windows 10 experience, you’ll want the sort of productivity that requires a keyboard. That will run you $99-$129. > A harder pill to swallow is the processor upgrade. Similar to the MacBook Air I just reviewed, the real top-line component refresh mentioned in the press material requires a not inconsequential premium. Microsoft heavily advertised the addition of the eighth-gen Intel core line, which was heralded as helping transform the Go into a proper laptop. The base level, however sports the Intel Pentium 4425Y, chip, far more in line with the original’s 4415Y — one of the bigger issues reviewers had with the first Go. Now the R5 3500u isn't a desktop class processor by any means but I am pretty sure it is better than a Pentium. https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-intel_pentium_gold_4425y-1230-vs-amd_ryzen_5_3500u-900 https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-intel_pentium_gold... Once again, I believe it is possible to hit $400 with respectable specifications. You just have to be willing to make a smaller/no profit.
Tsiklon 6y ago
I think in Apple's case for many buyers (consumer and corporate) the "headline-price-don't-buy" machines are the machines that move the most units. Anecdotally at both my current and previous employer - the "default" Apple notebook handed out was a 13" 2 port non-touchbar machine, which was for several years the least expensive MacBook Pro available.
- rsynnott 6y ago
  Oh, I'm sure it is for the Surface Go, too.

numlock86 6y ago

IIRC Windows 10 is able to run with as few as 256 MB of RAM these days.

chrisan 6y ago
It depends on the use case https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/minimum-hardware-requirements-overview https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/min... 256MB for IoT without display, 512MB with display For Mobile or desktop editions they say to have 1GB or higher for 32 bit (which I assume is the use case for a Surface)
- numlock86 6y ago
  https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-10-192mb-ram https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-10-192mb-ram
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
solarkraft 6y ago
And what modern application is?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

izacus 6y ago

It's trying to compete against iPads, which don't have more than 4GB of RAM in most SKUs either.

yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
Maybe, but iPads don't run desktop apps.
unix_fan 6y ago
But ipads don't have to run windows. Which Makes it actually reasonable.

NikolaNovak 6y ago

My instinct is the same - I have two computers with 32GB RAM, and it always feels well-utilized :) But I also have two cheapo media computers with Win10, 2GB RAM, 32GB MMC hard drive. They've been working BRILLIANTLY over last ~2 years. Even went through major Windows self-updates... no clue how. Is there a version of Win10 better optimized for smaller footprints, or it's the same version but recognizes its limitations, I'm not sure. But we've been browsing the web, watching movies, even playing some dinky games. So I can see 4GB actually being usable for many many people (NOT ones with multiple VMs etc of course:).

jrace 6y ago
My experience with hundreds of win10 machine in an enterprise environment has been that disk speed has a far greater impact than ram. 16GB ram with a HDD is a much slower and sluggish experience than 4GB ram with a ssd. This is for the general office use case.
- tracker1 6y ago
  Until you're using more than 16gb of ram and hit a wall... If you're doing full stack development with a few containers, database(s) and other services (rabbit, etc) you can easily eat 16gb. I rarely go much over 20gb though. What pisses me off looking for a new personal laptop (not my work one) is so many of the best options have oddly gimped single-channel memory upgrade options (8gb soldered, 8gb in single slot) or have oddly limited GPU options on higher end AMD models (4800H in particular).
ableal 6y ago
I echo the experience with "two cheapo media computers with Win10, 2GB RAM, 32GB MMC hard drive. They've been working BRILLIANTLY". I have a couple of 2013 or 2014 vintage Asus T-100 TA (tablets with detachable keyboard) around the house still working like champs at tablet duties. I think they've been upgrade from the original Windows 8, and they even work with the Office 2013 apps that came included in the 300 euro sale price for each. Not main work machines, but nice spares, and good for web, PDFs, tube and light games. And I get my fix of Metro Design interface not available on phones any more ...

numpad0 6y ago

DDR4 DRAM draws about 1.5W per 4GB, regardless of chip counts.

juped 6y ago

It's a tablet. It's the best tablet, because it runs a real operating system rather than a crippled "mobile OS", but it's still a tablet.

choward 6y ago

I think it's pretty absurd too especially since I just bought a raspberry pi 4 for under $100 that has the same amount of RAM. If I'm spending that much for a computer it has to be better than that.

chihuahua 6y ago

This is not true. On my Windows laptop with 4GB, there's 2GB free when running Chrome/Edge with a few tabs, and almost 1GB free when I open Teams in addition to the browser.