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The article assumes that the location data must have been collected because he gave an app permission to access his location. I bet they couldn’t figure out whi

The article assumes that the location data must have been collected because he gave an app permission to access his location. I bet they couldn’t figure out which app it was because it wasn’t an app. Cell service providers can and do track your cellphone location. All they have to do is measure the signal strength of your cellphone at different towers, and they can triangulate its position. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/nepxbz/i-gave-a-bounty-hunter-300-dollars-located-phone-microbilt-zumigo-tmobile https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/nepxbz/i-gave-a-bounty-hu... I’m not familiar with other locations, but in the US, you only have the choice between three cell service providers. All of them admit to selling their own customer’s location data to third parties in their Privacy Policies. AT&T https://about.att.com/csr/home/privacy/full_privacy_policy.html https://about.att.com/csr/home/privacy/full_privacy_policy.h... Verizon https://www.verizon.com/about/privacy/full-privacy-policy https://www.verizon.com/about/privacy/full-privacy-policy T-Mobile/Sprint https://www.t-mobile.com/privacy-center/our-practices/privacy-policy https://www.t-mobile.com/privacy-center/our-practices/privac... Remember, you’re paying for these services. But they still sell you out. I seriously recommend you read the privacy policy for your provider. It seems they collect as much data as possible (not just location, also browsing history and a whole host of other metrics) and share it with as many different parties as possible. If you are using a cellphone, your location is being tracked. Period. You can’t avoid it. Even TOR isn’t gonna help you.

etrabroline 6y ago
From Verizon: >We may de-identify or aggregate information so that Verizon or others may use it for business and marketing purposes. For example, the data we aggregate might be used to analyze, personalize and improve our services, to provide business and marketing insights to others and to help make advertising more relevant to you. You have choices about some of these uses From AT&T: >Equipment Information includes information that identifies or relates to equipment on our networks, such as type, identifier, status, settings, configuration, software or use. Location Information includes your street address, your ZIP code and where your device is located. Location information is generated when the devices, Products or Services you use interact with cell towers, Wi-Fi routers, Bluetooth services, access points, other devices, beacons and/or with other technologies, including GPS satellites. [...] We may share information with AT&T affiliates and with non-AT&T companies to deliver or assess effectiveness of advertising and marketing campaigns
henriklied 6y ago
> The article assumes that the location data must have been collected because he gave an app permission to access his location. I bet they couldn’t figure out which app it was because it wasn’t an app. I worked on this story (and the others, we're still publishing [1] [2]). The dataset we bought from Tamoco didn't contain an app name for most of the data. So instead of guessing, we're open about the fact that we don't quite know. Which is sort of the issue here – there's not a lot of transparency around what is collected and by whom. The Norwegian Data Protection Agency (DPA) has opened an investigation into Tamoco [2] after our first story, and they want to cooperate with the UK DPA. [1] https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&pto=aue&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=no&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.nrk.no/norge/mobilsporing_-8300-mobiler-sporet-pa-sykehus-og-krisesentre-1.15008085&usg=ALkJrhgZ2TqtPraYad9xfMdQ-upJtC-Vng https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&... [2] https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&pto=aue&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=no&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.nrk.no/norge/datatilsynet-opnar-gransking-etter-nrk-avsloring-1.15011535&usg=ALkJrhiYQX4OK8aXpnIVQQKJtYK4LNLffQ https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&...
- tixocloud 6y ago
  It could be an app - we've had startups approach us to sell location data collected from apps so I wouldn't rule anything out at this point.
  - henriklied 6y ago
    Feel free to contact me if this is something you want to talk about!
- Lex-2008 6y ago
  > I worked on this story Having access to original NRK data, is it possible to deanonymize more people (try to check your home address, NRK HQ, etc), and ask them for a list of installed apps to check if all have one in common? Although it's questionable from privacy point of view, so probably better to pursue it in legal ways.
TomMarius 6y ago
It is illegal to not track and save this data in the EU. > If you are using a cellphone, your location is being tracked. Period. You can’t avoid it. Even TOR isn’t gonna help you. It is still possible to buy an anonymous SIM in a few countries.
- propelol 6y ago
  I don't know if that is true. But the issue here is that the data is being sold to others for other use cases.
  - eru 6y ago
    You used to be able to be an anonymous SIM in the UK. (No clue whether that's still the case.) The SIM would still be tracked. Don't think whatever EU laws allowed the UK to keep some SIMS anonymous have changed since they left?
    - TomMarius 6y ago
      The country that still allows it is Czechia. So it's probably not an EU law that requires it.
      - eru 6y ago
        Thanks! That figures. They are also pretty liberal on their citizens owning guns.
        TomMarius 6y ago
        Indeed we are, and the gun ownership is not minor as well (every twelfth adult normally carries a weapon).
        jacobush 6y ago
        Interesting twist on that - the EU has gun regulations, but Czechia made a law that every licensed gun owner in Czechia constitutes a part of the national defense. Sweden has a similar thing, where people in the reserve can have a fully automatic submachine gun. But it's limited to people with an explicit reserve status and the proper training, gun safe etc and further limitations, plus in practice it's not common anymore.
tinus_hn 6y ago
That kind of triangulation is nowhere near precise enough to reveal the data shown in the article. This is GPS data which the provider does not get. Remember that many people ‘have nothing to hide’ so they turn on services like Google Latitude. Then later they’re al surprised when their data is sold to the highest bidder.
- mikorym 6y ago
  > That kind of triangulation is nowhere near precise enough to reveal the data shown in the article You don't have to speculate, the article does state the method: >> All modern mobile phones have a GPS receiver, which with the help of satellite can track the exact position of the phone with only a few meters distance. >> The position data NRK acquired consisted of a table with four hundred million map coordinates from mobiles in Norway. A number in the table led us on the trail of Karl Bjarne Bernhardsen. I think the general observation is that they (government, cell providers, 3rd parties to whom this is sold) have access to most GPS data and all cell tower triangulation data; the latter they have however often it is set up to be recorded.
  - tinus_hn 6y ago
    Do you really propose a manufacturer like Apple is going to grant continuous access to the GPS receiver in their phone to the providers?
    - mikorym 6y ago
      I am not sure what you are asking. In the OP article they plot each point so that you can see them explicitly. They then mention these are GPS points. Cell triangulation needs no client side data; it uses only signal strength and three or more towers.
      - tinus_hn 6y ago
        So what is the connection between the GPS points and the cell triangulation? How does having the cell triangulation data lead to having the GPS points? The parent claims the providers can magically access the GPS receiver in the handsets. But they really cannot, so the providers only have coarse data that cannot be used to track people on this level. The data is from another source, not the provider. It’s much more likely the user agreed to install an app that is recording his location information.
thdrdt 6y ago
This is what always bothers me in movies. There is a secret meeting. Everybody pulls out their sim because they don't want their location to be known. Well.. no, you already revealed where you were going.
- chopin 6y ago
  Even pulling out the sim wouldn't help. Without sim the phone can do emergency calls, so the phone is still connected to a network (afaik). My paranoia is fulfilled with switching the phone off (before leaving home), but others would rely on removing the battery. Snowden recommended putting it in a fridge.

etrabroline 6y ago

From Verizon: >We may de-identify or aggregate information so that Verizon or others may use it for business and marketing purposes. For example, the data we aggregate might be used to analyze, personalize and improve our services, to provide business and marketing insights to others and to help make advertising more relevant to you. You have choices about some of these uses From AT&T: >Equipment Information includes information that identifies or relates to equipment on our networks, such as type, identifier, status, settings, configuration, software or use. Location Information includes your street address, your ZIP code and where your device is located. Location information is generated when the devices, Products or Services you use interact with cell towers, Wi-Fi routers, Bluetooth services, access points, other devices, beacons and/or with other technologies, including GPS satellites. [...] We may share information with AT&T affiliates and with non-AT&T companies to deliver or assess effectiveness of advertising and marketing campaigns

henriklied 6y ago

> The article assumes that the location data must have been collected because he gave an app permission to access his location. I bet they couldn’t figure out which app it was because it wasn’t an app. I worked on this story (and the others, we're still publishing [1] [2]). The dataset we bought from Tamoco didn't contain an app name for most of the data. So instead of guessing, we're open about the fact that we don't quite know. Which is sort of the issue here – there's not a lot of transparency around what is collected and by whom. The Norwegian Data Protection Agency (DPA) has opened an investigation into Tamoco [2] after our first story, and they want to cooperate with the UK DPA. [1] https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&pto=aue&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=no&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.nrk.no/norge/mobilsporing_-8300-mobiler-sporet-pa-sykehus-og-krisesentre-1.15008085&usg=ALkJrhgZ2TqtPraYad9xfMdQ-upJtC-Vng https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&... [2] https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&pto=aue&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=no&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.nrk.no/norge/datatilsynet-opnar-gransking-etter-nrk-avsloring-1.15011535&usg=ALkJrhiYQX4OK8aXpnIVQQKJtYK4LNLffQ https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&...

tixocloud 6y ago
It could be an app - we've had startups approach us to sell location data collected from apps so I wouldn't rule anything out at this point.
- henriklied 6y ago
  Feel free to contact me if this is something you want to talk about!
Lex-2008 6y ago
> I worked on this story Having access to original NRK data, is it possible to deanonymize more people (try to check your home address, NRK HQ, etc), and ask them for a list of installed apps to check if all have one in common? Although it's questionable from privacy point of view, so probably better to pursue it in legal ways.

TomMarius 6y ago

It is illegal to not track and save this data in the EU. > If you are using a cellphone, your location is being tracked. Period. You can’t avoid it. Even TOR isn’t gonna help you. It is still possible to buy an anonymous SIM in a few countries.

propelol 6y ago
I don't know if that is true. But the issue here is that the data is being sold to others for other use cases.
- eru 6y ago
  You used to be able to be an anonymous SIM in the UK. (No clue whether that's still the case.) The SIM would still be tracked. Don't think whatever EU laws allowed the UK to keep some SIMS anonymous have changed since they left?
  - TomMarius 6y ago
    The country that still allows it is Czechia. So it's probably not an EU law that requires it.
    - eru 6y ago
      Thanks! That figures. They are also pretty liberal on their citizens owning guns.
      - TomMarius 6y ago
        Indeed we are, and the gun ownership is not minor as well (every twelfth adult normally carries a weapon).
        jacobush 6y ago
        Interesting twist on that - the EU has gun regulations, but Czechia made a law that every licensed gun owner in Czechia constitutes a part of the national defense. Sweden has a similar thing, where people in the reserve can have a fully automatic submachine gun. But it's limited to people with an explicit reserve status and the proper training, gun safe etc and further limitations, plus in practice it's not common anymore.

tinus_hn 6y ago

That kind of triangulation is nowhere near precise enough to reveal the data shown in the article. This is GPS data which the provider does not get. Remember that many people ‘have nothing to hide’ so they turn on services like Google Latitude. Then later they’re al surprised when their data is sold to the highest bidder.

mikorym 6y ago
> That kind of triangulation is nowhere near precise enough to reveal the data shown in the article You don't have to speculate, the article does state the method: >> All modern mobile phones have a GPS receiver, which with the help of satellite can track the exact position of the phone with only a few meters distance. >> The position data NRK acquired consisted of a table with four hundred million map coordinates from mobiles in Norway. A number in the table led us on the trail of Karl Bjarne Bernhardsen. I think the general observation is that they (government, cell providers, 3rd parties to whom this is sold) have access to most GPS data and all cell tower triangulation data; the latter they have however often it is set up to be recorded.
- tinus_hn 6y ago
  Do you really propose a manufacturer like Apple is going to grant continuous access to the GPS receiver in their phone to the providers?
  - mikorym 6y ago
    I am not sure what you are asking. In the OP article they plot each point so that you can see them explicitly. They then mention these are GPS points. Cell triangulation needs no client side data; it uses only signal strength and three or more towers.
    - tinus_hn 6y ago
      So what is the connection between the GPS points and the cell triangulation? How does having the cell triangulation data lead to having the GPS points? The parent claims the providers can magically access the GPS receiver in the handsets. But they really cannot, so the providers only have coarse data that cannot be used to track people on this level. The data is from another source, not the provider. It’s much more likely the user agreed to install an app that is recording his location information.

thdrdt 6y ago

This is what always bothers me in movies. There is a secret meeting. Everybody pulls out their sim because they don't want their location to be known. Well.. no, you already revealed where you were going.

chopin 6y ago
Even pulling out the sim wouldn't help. Without sim the phone can do emergency calls, so the phone is still connected to a network (afaik). My paranoia is fulfilled with switching the phone off (before leaving home), but others would rely on removing the battery. Snowden recommended putting it in a fridge.