4 ms·

> “While others were facilitated by their embassies concerned and were taken for quarantine, officials from the German embassy informed the Indian bureau of imm

> “While others were facilitated by their embassies concerned and were taken for quarantine, officials from the German embassy informed the Indian bureau of immigration that Ziebat is a wanted criminal in their country with several cases of assault and other crimes registered against him. Since he was on a foreign land, they did not take his custody." This sounds highly suspicious to me. If he is a wanted criminal, I would imagine the German government is especially keen to take him home so that he can be held responsible for his crimes. It sounds to me like he doesn't want to leave for Germany and they can't make him board a "rescue flight".

IlyaMoroshkin 6y ago
He is probably still being paid social welfare by German (taxpayers). It is commonplace in Europe that terrorist suspects are on welfare whilst planning attacks.
- mulmen 6y ago
  How did we get from “a few cases of assault” to “terrorism”? The fact you use them interchangeably dilutes the meaning of both. Is what you describe of terrorist “suspects” also true of actual terrorists? This sounds like a dog whistle.
  - netsharc 6y ago
    This commenter sounds like one of the people who have a chip in their shoulder about refugees, immigration in general and Muslim minorities..
    - netsharc 6y ago
      Apparently I can't edit downvoted comments? I don't mean mulmen by "commenter", I mean the writer of the dead comment he was replying to (btw you can show flagged comments by enabling "showdead").
      - postsantum 6y ago
        Nobody was confused by this. You are just making a similar logical leap along with a personal attack
a-wu 6y ago
Couldn’t Germany issue a red notice and have him extradited if they want him so bad?
- bluGill 6y ago
  They can, but the crimes probably are not big enough to be worth that.
mirimir 6y ago
Yeah, that seems odd. But then, I know zero about German law. I suppose that none of the charges against him warrant extradition, so they're cool with him remaining in India. But on the other hand, he has a criminal record, so they don't have to repatriate him.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  > But on the other hand, he has a criminal record, so they don't have to repatriate him. This is what seems highly unlikely to me. I wonder what is written on this in the German media.
  - Tomte 6y ago
    A short Google (News) search in German turned up nothing.
    - netsharc 6y ago
      Google just recommends me "Ziebart", which is a more common name, I'm wondering if the reporter misspelled his name.
  - maxnoe 6y ago
    German here fomlowing the German media broadly. This is the first I heard of this story.
- Broken_Hippo 6y ago
  I'm not convinced that is the case. I'm going to guess they can take away his citizenship if he has citizenship elsewhere. I'm not sure they can refuse a citizen without citizenship elsewhere, though. This would leave the dude stateless - and while a few countries do this to their citizens, I'm nearly certain that Germany is not one of them. Every other country - the ones where he is a foreigner - can most certainly refuse his entry, though.
  - eru 6y ago
gglnx 6y ago
As a German, I don't know any law that would prohibit that he could return to Germany. The embassies organized the return flights and I read about many complications and fuck-ups, maybe that's what happened. Maybe also he wasn't registered in the "Deutschenliste" (online tool that you register as a German if you travel abroad, so you can be contacted in emergencies). The German embassy in Delhi says on their website (see: https://india.diplo.de/in-de https://india.diplo.de/in-de) that no more German flights are planned, but KLM has some flights, but that must be booked by yourself.
- vinay427 6y ago
  He's not prohibited from returning for legal reasons. He's prevented at the moment due to an apparent lack of (direct?) flights. This isn't a normal issue with some German citizen stuck abroad who failed to register. As far as I can tell from the article, he was not planning to return to Germany as he is wanted for a crime there, and was on his way to Turkey through India when India-Turkey flights were canceled. I imagine Indian authorities would have to cooperate with the German embassy once a flight that is to their satisfaction is available to put him on the flight.
  - chosenbreed37 6y ago
    > I imagine Indian authorities would have to cooperate with the German embassy once a flight that is to their satisfaction is available to put him on the flight. Can they really compel him to board a flight to Germany against his will? I mean technically he's still in-transit and not actually under Indian jurisdiction...
    - vinay427 6y ago
      (If anyone is familiar with Indian law I would appreciate their input.) Speaking in general terms, based on various other countries limiting or restricting their international transit areas, I believe that in-transit areas (or pre-immigration areas in US airports) are usually not actually outside jurisdiction but are permitted by the host country to be accessible to passengers without immigration/customs processing. Therefore, they're not like international waters or airspace.
9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
Germany would be happy to have him board a flight to Germany, where he would be arrested on arrival, the problem is that there are (now) no flights at all. India is unwilling to let a convicted criminal in the country, but he has committed no crimes on Indian soil, so they're not arresting him. In a scenario like this there's very little the German embassy can do, it's not like they have their own private jail ready. At this point, the guy is probably best off just waiting it out in the transit area, and getting a flight out to Turkey or wherever when they resume.
- Matt3o12_ 6y ago
  There were plenty of flights to Germany at the beginning of the lockdown. They were called rescue flights and I’m sure the German government would have loved to have him on board that flight (so that they can arrest him in Germany). It’s sounded like he wanted to go to another country but couldn’t due to the lack of international flights.
  - KarlKemp 6y ago
    It's a bit confusing, with the article saying international flights are suspended, but Delhi Departure and Bangkok arrival show flights between the two cities: https://www.bangkokairportonline.com/flight-status-arrivals-departures/ https://www.bangkokairportonline.com/flight-status-arrivals-.... From there, a flight to Frankfurt leaves at 2300. The EU also pooled their repatriation flights. He could have gotten on any French, Italian, Spanish etc. transport, space permitting. There's obviously something wrong with this guy. And if there wasn't before, six weeks at an airport made it happen. He should just go home and for it to be credited as time served.
    - evandijk70 6y ago
      Is it possible that those flights are cargo-only?
    - iso1631 6y ago
      Even if the flights are available to passengers, Thailand does not allow anyone enter the country except for very specific reasons - not even citizens and permanent residents are allowed in As such an airline won't take the passenger https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/thailand/entry-requirements https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/thailand/entry-requ...
goodcanadian 6y ago
The article is somewhat inconsistent. In one place, it says he has a criminal record; in another, it says he is wanted. I suspect the word "not" got left out as Germany would take him if he was wanted. Also, he wouldn't have visas for several countries as it says in the article. I think he simply doesn't want to go back to Germany and is happy to stay put until he is able to continue his travel on his terms.
- KarlKemp 6y ago
  There's nothing preventing you from getting several visas for as many countries as you want/can afford. While he is apparently wanted in Germany, a run-of-the-mill assault case doesn't trigger an international arrest warrant, and there's no other system that would share such information with foreign visa offices, except possibly the US. It was shared with India in this case only after he became an "issue". I don't quite understand what the German bureaucracy is supposedly doing differently in this case due to this arrest warrant. I'm somewhat certain that it wouldn't change anything until he sets foot on German ground again. Germany would have both an interest in him returning (for justice, and to prevent any more international embarrassment this guy might provoke), as well as a responsibility to assist him that doesn't just go away if you commit a crime.
  - goodcanadian 6y ago
    Exactly why I suspect he is not wanted, and has declined help from Germany. My speculation only, of course, and almost certainly based on incomplete facts. EDIT: Of course, assuming he is wanted, that would certainly explain why he would decline German help.

IlyaMoroshkin 6y ago

He is probably still being paid social welfare by German (taxpayers). It is commonplace in Europe that terrorist suspects are on welfare whilst planning attacks.

mulmen 6y ago
How did we get from “a few cases of assault” to “terrorism”? The fact you use them interchangeably dilutes the meaning of both. Is what you describe of terrorist “suspects” also true of actual terrorists? This sounds like a dog whistle.
- netsharc 6y ago
  This commenter sounds like one of the people who have a chip in their shoulder about refugees, immigration in general and Muslim minorities..
  - netsharc 6y ago
    Apparently I can't edit downvoted comments? I don't mean mulmen by "commenter", I mean the writer of the dead comment he was replying to (btw you can show flagged comments by enabling "showdead").
    - postsantum 6y ago
      Nobody was confused by this. You are just making a similar logical leap along with a personal attack

a-wu 6y ago

Couldn’t Germany issue a red notice and have him extradited if they want him so bad?

bluGill 6y ago
They can, but the crimes probably are not big enough to be worth that.

mirimir 6y ago

Yeah, that seems odd. But then, I know zero about German law. I suppose that none of the charges against him warrant extradition, so they're cool with him remaining in India. But on the other hand, he has a criminal record, so they don't have to repatriate him.

Aeolun 6y ago
> But on the other hand, he has a criminal record, so they don't have to repatriate him. This is what seems highly unlikely to me. I wonder what is written on this in the German media.
- Tomte 6y ago
  A short Google (News) search in German turned up nothing.
  - netsharc 6y ago
    Google just recommends me "Ziebart", which is a more common name, I'm wondering if the reporter misspelled his name.
- maxnoe 6y ago
  German here fomlowing the German media broadly. This is the first I heard of this story.
Broken_Hippo 6y ago
I'm not convinced that is the case. I'm going to guess they can take away his citizenship if he has citizenship elsewhere. I'm not sure they can refuse a citizen without citizenship elsewhere, though. This would leave the dude stateless - and while a few countries do this to their citizens, I'm nearly certain that Germany is not one of them. Every other country - the ones where he is a foreigner - can most certainly refuse his entry, though.
- eru 6y ago

gglnx 6y ago

As a German, I don't know any law that would prohibit that he could return to Germany. The embassies organized the return flights and I read about many complications and fuck-ups, maybe that's what happened. Maybe also he wasn't registered in the "Deutschenliste" (online tool that you register as a German if you travel abroad, so you can be contacted in emergencies). The German embassy in Delhi says on their website (see: https://india.diplo.de/in-de https://india.diplo.de/in-de) that no more German flights are planned, but KLM has some flights, but that must be booked by yourself.

vinay427 6y ago
He's not prohibited from returning for legal reasons. He's prevented at the moment due to an apparent lack of (direct?) flights. This isn't a normal issue with some German citizen stuck abroad who failed to register. As far as I can tell from the article, he was not planning to return to Germany as he is wanted for a crime there, and was on his way to Turkey through India when India-Turkey flights were canceled. I imagine Indian authorities would have to cooperate with the German embassy once a flight that is to their satisfaction is available to put him on the flight.
- chosenbreed37 6y ago
  > I imagine Indian authorities would have to cooperate with the German embassy once a flight that is to their satisfaction is available to put him on the flight. Can they really compel him to board a flight to Germany against his will? I mean technically he's still in-transit and not actually under Indian jurisdiction...
  - vinay427 6y ago
    (If anyone is familiar with Indian law I would appreciate their input.) Speaking in general terms, based on various other countries limiting or restricting their international transit areas, I believe that in-transit areas (or pre-immigration areas in US airports) are usually not actually outside jurisdiction but are permitted by the host country to be accessible to passengers without immigration/customs processing. Therefore, they're not like international waters or airspace.

9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago

Germany would be happy to have him board a flight to Germany, where he would be arrested on arrival, the problem is that there are (now) no flights at all. India is unwilling to let a convicted criminal in the country, but he has committed no crimes on Indian soil, so they're not arresting him. In a scenario like this there's very little the German embassy can do, it's not like they have their own private jail ready. At this point, the guy is probably best off just waiting it out in the transit area, and getting a flight out to Turkey or wherever when they resume.

Matt3o12_ 6y ago
There were plenty of flights to Germany at the beginning of the lockdown. They were called rescue flights and I’m sure the German government would have loved to have him on board that flight (so that they can arrest him in Germany). It’s sounded like he wanted to go to another country but couldn’t due to the lack of international flights.
- KarlKemp 6y ago
  It's a bit confusing, with the article saying international flights are suspended, but Delhi Departure and Bangkok arrival show flights between the two cities: https://www.bangkokairportonline.com/flight-status-arrivals-departures/ https://www.bangkokairportonline.com/flight-status-arrivals-.... From there, a flight to Frankfurt leaves at 2300. The EU also pooled their repatriation flights. He could have gotten on any French, Italian, Spanish etc. transport, space permitting. There's obviously something wrong with this guy. And if there wasn't before, six weeks at an airport made it happen. He should just go home and for it to be credited as time served.
  - evandijk70 6y ago
    Is it possible that those flights are cargo-only?
  - iso1631 6y ago
    Even if the flights are available to passengers, Thailand does not allow anyone enter the country except for very specific reasons - not even citizens and permanent residents are allowed in As such an airline won't take the passenger https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/thailand/entry-requirements https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/thailand/entry-requ...

goodcanadian 6y ago

The article is somewhat inconsistent. In one place, it says he has a criminal record; in another, it says he is wanted. I suspect the word "not" got left out as Germany would take him if he was wanted. Also, he wouldn't have visas for several countries as it says in the article. I think he simply doesn't want to go back to Germany and is happy to stay put until he is able to continue his travel on his terms.

KarlKemp 6y ago
There's nothing preventing you from getting several visas for as many countries as you want/can afford. While he is apparently wanted in Germany, a run-of-the-mill assault case doesn't trigger an international arrest warrant, and there's no other system that would share such information with foreign visa offices, except possibly the US. It was shared with India in this case only after he became an "issue". I don't quite understand what the German bureaucracy is supposedly doing differently in this case due to this arrest warrant. I'm somewhat certain that it wouldn't change anything until he sets foot on German ground again. Germany would have both an interest in him returning (for justice, and to prevent any more international embarrassment this guy might provoke), as well as a responsibility to assist him that doesn't just go away if you commit a crime.
- goodcanadian 6y ago
  Exactly why I suspect he is not wanted, and has declined help from Germany. My speculation only, of course, and almost certainly based on incomplete facts. EDIT: Of course, assuming he is wanted, that would certainly explain why he would decline German help.