19 ms·

Progress on Plasma

95 points by jlpcsl 6y ago

diminish 6y ago
I'm more curious if snap/flakpak-based installations will benefit Ubuntu Studio more than servers and other desktops.
- WhatIsDukkha 6y ago
  One of the primary benefits on audio side of Studio iirc is that the Jack audio server is installed and working. Jack, at this point, doesn't work/sandbox well with flatpak (or snap). Redhat is leading an effort to create Pipewire which will act as a kind of combination of Jack(low latency) and PulseAudio(modern desktop features) that also fold in video routing. As part of the design goals of Pipewire it will sandbox well with flatpak etc. I'm sure there will be lots of whining and noise from poorly informed users but I think it's going to be pretty great when it gets there.
Jonnax 6y ago
Personally I consider the KDE the only DE that feels like it can compete with an OS like Windows or OSX. It's just a lot of small things that add up to make it feel cohesive. Like how the file explorer has a built in terminal that follows the folder you're in. A lot of people call that philosophy bloat. But honestly I've got a PC with 32 GB of RAM and a laptop with 16GB. Like the Ubuntu Studio people have said 50MB more ram usage compared to XFCE isn't a bother at all.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- stestagg 6y ago
  > Like how the file explorer has a built in terminal that follows the folder you're in. That’s a nice feature. But it has little to do with Windows/OSX equivalence. It also highlights something I felt last time I tried KDE (admittedly a while ago). There were lots of nice UX innovations and polish. But they didn’t feel familiar to me (as a user of many desktop environments). This makes switching much less of an appealing prospect to me.
  - dahfizz 6y ago
    > But they didn’t feel familiar to me. I'm shocked by this, especially when the alternative here is GNOME. You can put a lifelong windows user in front of a plasma machine and they will be able to figure it out easy. There is a start menu, a bottom taskbar, all the window buttons are where they belong, etc. Contrast with gnome, where you can't get anything done unless you already know the magical keyboard shortcuts. Plasma gets criticized often for having too many configuration options and too many features, which I think is just insane. It works perfectly well out of the box, but it allows you to tinker to your heart's content.
    - stestagg 6y ago
      No disagreement here. I don't use gnome desktops, for similar reasons (although I'm also not the target audience for adopters, as I currently use Linux as my primary desktop environment!) I use cinnamon, as, for my personal preferences, it strikes the best balance between familiarity, 'prettiness' and functionality of the options I've tried.
      - suby 6y ago
        I think Cinnamon is really underrated. It has sane defaults, is reasonably performant, and will be familiar to anyone coming from Windows. In general I feel that Gnome has terrible defaults, and are hostile to the user making changes away from these defaults. It's also less performant than Cinnamon -- animations can lag on my machine for example, and my machine isn't exactly bad. I think Plasma is nice, and it's certainly more customizable than Cinnamon, but I think this comes at the cost of reliability and an overall feeling of cohesiveness. I also think there's a point where you don't want every right click menu to contain an option which allows you to fundamentally change the functionality of your desktop. I'd probably be using XFCE or Mate if Cinnamon didn't exist.
  - Quekid5 6y ago
    What? You literally said you have only a limited amount of experience with KDE (from 'undefined' time ago), and yet you felt qualified to opine on its suitability for X... now? What?
- bananamerica 6y ago
  As you said, you got a PC with 32GB of RAM and a laptop with 16GB.
  - orf 6y ago
    Exactly - a desktop experience should track the current desktop hardware. If you have 512mb of ram and a pentium 4 then too bad. Let’s not hobble the future because of the past.
    - shrimp_emoji 6y ago
      Amen. Stop fighting the last war.
    - wtetzner 6y ago
      And you don’t need every desktop environment to handle every use case. If you have limited resources, run something like XFCE.
    - guug 6y ago
      What about people who bought a low-to-mid range laptop last year? While 8G isn't .5G, it's still low enough that you'd quickly hit swap (a bloated modern browser + multimedia authoring tools) Tracking "current" desktop hardware is a quick way to get yourself another vista.
      - mrrsm 6y ago
        If you bought a budget computer do you really expect it to be able to handle running even minor taxing applications. In my experience most people who are buying a budget laptop need a great web browsing experience and maybe an office suite (if they aren't using a cloud one already). My guess is running a browser with Spotify or YouTube, some social networking tabs, and maybe google docs or office 365 word will not pose any issues.
      - vosper 6y ago
        > While 8G isn't .5G, it's still low enough that you'd quickly hit swap (a bloated modern browser + multimedia authoring tools) High memory usage from a browser or multimedia authoring tools is not the fault or responsibility of the desktop environment? Edit: Or was your point more that the desktop environment should use minimal memory so that the user can have a better experience with their applications? That makes sense, except in this case Ubuntu Studio explicitly states that it’s designed for powerful machines and not ones with more limited resources
- madprops 6y ago
  To me the problem with bloat is that it makes projects harder to maintain, also more bugs, not so much about ram usage. If the system in place makes sure the codebase is easily understood and adopted by contributors, then by all means, make all the crazy features you can think of.
- shrimp_emoji 6y ago
  Besides an integrated terminal, Dolphin also has a split mode! https://i.imgur.com/4blIFer.png https://i.imgur.com/4blIFer.png How does a file manager made by four Dutch guys for free beat Explorer, the file manager of the 99.9% marketshare multi-billion-dollar hegemon OS (which only got a dark mode like yesterday)?
  - madprops 6y ago
    And tabs. And drag-dropping things by accident doesn't simply move/copy files but asks you what you want to do.
  - nyanpasu64 6y ago
    The integrated terminal behaves badly with zsh/oh-my-zsh (random memory being printed to screen, extra space on the prompt whenever you switch folders), and sometimes fails to track folders. Should I report these issues?
    - jefft255 6y ago
      Of course! The answer to your question is always yes. This is very helpful to OSS developers.
  - Sharlin 6y ago
    Well, Norton Commander[1] had a split view and an integrated terminal in 1984. Shipping a power-user file manager has simply never been a priority for Microsoft. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_Commander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_Commander
  - mnm1 6y ago
    Not too mention whatever passes for a file manager on osx (finder) that looks and acts like it was created by a thirteen year old boy as his first real program. And not even a boy that's going to go on to program for a living at that.
- Kye 6y ago
  >> "Like how the file explorer has a built in terminal that follows the folder you're in." You can type cmd + enter in any Explorer address bar and Windows will start a command prompt in that folder. It's not the same, but at least simplifies things.
- vondur 6y ago
  KDE is actually one of the lightest in terms of memory usage of all the DE's.
  - masnao 6y ago
    today. after gnome rewrote the whole thing under "new management"
    - Jonnax 6y ago
      That was 9 years ago.
      - masnao 6y ago
        that's how long KDE prejudice is going on (and how long gnome is still missing old functionality ;)
- brnt 6y ago
  What KDE can compete with I don't know, but I do know its the only DE I can stand and actually enjoy using. And I compare it not only with Gnome, but Windows and MacOS too. Highly recommend you take a look if you don't know it (recently).
fit2rule 6y ago
As a longtime user of Ubuntu Studio on a very productive DAW, this is welcome news - XFCE has certainly been a great choice for the last few years, but KDE has a lot more to offer, especially now the resource usage is comparable. I have a feeling it'll also sway MacOS DAW users to take a closer look at just what Linux has to offer pro audio users - amazing latency specs, even when compared to Mac, which has traditionally had better latency than Windows - as well as a full suite of excellent tools for Audio and Video production, out of the box. XFCE is functional but MacOS creatives get a bit snobby about it during the first OOBE - won't be so easily snubbed when KDE is on by default. I look forward to giving this new version of Ubuntu Studio a tryout in my studio ..
- qppo 6y ago
  Is this a joke? There's so much overhead in getting a working setup compared to MacOS, and only one of the major DAWs even runs natively on it. The tools are far from "excellent" compared to the offerings on MacOS and even Windows. I can't even get the Jack server to start on my Ubuntu machine. It's not snobbiness, the software isn't there and what is there is user hostile. I know the reply to this comment is "have you tried X, or just do Y then Z!" On Mac I install software and double click it. I plug in my interface. Maybe I plug in a dongle if I need it. That's it. There's no messing with configurations, installing or uninstalling dependencies, drivers that work, driver management software that works (or just exists), and no bullshit like jack needed at all. Linux, including Ubuntu Studio is miles away from being sensible for any audio content creation. The experience is horrible.
  - veridies 6y ago
    I agree with you, unfortunately. Obviously Linux has a great deal of flexibility, but the basic tools one relies upon for audio editing either aren't there or are significantly handicapped. I once tried a basic project idea on my linux laptop to see how well I could get it to work; after three days it was almost usable. The same project took me an hour on my Mac with Logic Pro X.
    - fit2rule 6y ago
kevinherron 6y ago
I wish KDE had the same level of resources behind it as GNOME does. I keep occasionally trying new versions of GNOME but it feels like a DE optimized to look good in screenshots and always falls short when actually using it. KDE on the other hand looks relatively good and is infinitely more usable to me. It's got some rougher edges and a weaker application ecosystem but still comes out ahead for me. I also vastly prefer using apps written in QT to those written in GTK and despise CSD...
- flyingpenguin 6y ago
  I don't want to defend Gnome because I also can't stand it over KDE most of the time, but I think GNOME is built for one actually useful thing... laptops. Gnome feels good on a computer with a single small display.
  - CoolGuySteve 6y ago
    I'm probably the last person who still uses Unity and it's for this exact reason. I set the launch bar to auto hide and use the compiz Expose clone hot corners to switch windows. It all just gets out of the way. I don't know why Gnome didn't adopt the Unity menu bar integration, instead you get to waste space on the taskbar on the bottom AND that useless status bar on the top.
    - mroche 6y ago
      > I don't know why Gnome didn't adopt the Unity menu bar integration, instead you get to waste space on the taskbar on the bottom AND that useless status bar on the top. Are you referring to the Window List extension? Why not use Dash to Dock instead, or even Dash to Panel (not sure if it’s current state, I don’t use it) which will also replace the main top status panel. I’m a GNOME user on a single display (X because NVIDIA and 3D industry apps) and it works well for me. I do like the other DE’s though, I’m pretty agnostic in that sense.
      - CoolGuySteve 6y ago
squarefoot 6y ago
They write about negligible memory overhead by KDE over XFCE, but the measurement is done on a Live image just after a fresh boot, that is, not a real use case. I would ask them to take the same measurements after like half an hour of loading all XFCE accessories and their corresponding ones on KDE. Otherwise the test wouldn't take into account the impact of loading times and caching of modules and libraries, which KDE has in much larger numbers than XFCE.
- janoc 6y ago
  It doesn't really matter. Ubuntu Studio is a distro tailored for multimedia production. You are not going to use that on a machine with a small amount of RAM. For comparison, I am running Mageia 7 with Plasma and after the entire day of working (C development, browser open with many tabs, e-mail ...), the machine shows 3.5GB used RAM with another 6.5GB of cache/buffers, out of 16GB of RAM. Squabbling over few hundred MB of RAM that Plasma may take extra is ridiculous when a web browser alone can take 2GB+ RAM and a large RAW format photo loaded in Gimp or Krita detto.
andai 6y ago
People who use KDE, what's your favorite distro? I wanna give ita shot.
- coopsmgoops 6y ago
  KDE has their own plasma distribution, I've never used it but it seems like a solid option
  - xyquadrat 6y ago
    To elaborate on this, we (we as in other developers in KDE, not me personally) have created KDE Neon (https://neon.kde.org/ https://neon.kde.org/) which is Ubuntu LTS + the latest KDE software. It's great for using the up-to-date KDE Plasma & application versions while having a stable base in Ubuntu LTS. I've personally used it for nearly 3 years now, and never had any problems with KDE Neon. It probably isn't a good option if you'd like to have the newest versions everywhere, since the base system is only thoroughly upgraded on every Ubuntu LTS release. If you have any questions regarding KDE software or KDE Neon, I'd be happy to answer them on #kde:kde.org (Matrix) which is also bridged to #kde on freenode.
    - magicalhippo 6y ago
      I've been a happy KDE Neon user on my secondary desktop, an Intel NUC, for about 3-4 years now. I use it multiple hours each day and it's been a very pleasant experience, as in it does its thing and doesn't get in my way. Was seriously considering using it for my primary desktop, but that'll have to wait until there's a viable RDP alternative.
- specktr 6y ago
  I’ve been using Fedora for over a year with KDE. Before that it was Kubuntu for a year. The difference is night and day in my opinion. I believe this is due to the constant updates on fedora that fixed many annoying bugs I had with the ubuntu install. The downside is that you are likely to get a kernel update about once a week, it honestly hasn’t been an issue and i’m a college student who needs essentially 100% uptime on my boxes. But in my opinion it’s the perfect trade off since it’s not quite rolling but still on the cutting edge for the most part.
jbk 6y ago
It's quite nice that they managed to make the plasma version look the same as the Xfce version.
Der_Einzige 6y ago
I don't know where all of the love for KDE is coming from. It's got so many graphical and UI bugs even in comparison to XFCE that I can't use it as my daily driver.
- snazz 6y ago
  What kinds of bugs are you talking about? I think part of the problem with KDE is that it's large enough that two users might be using completely different parts of it---I find that it's far more stable than GNOME, for instance. I'm not a fan of how its compositor makes scrolling look (I much prefer how Sway or even Windows does it) or how the compositor interacts with SDL applications, but that's not exactly a "bug".
- guug 6y ago
  A good user interface is one you don't realize you're using. KDE is flexible enough to fit many workflows and doesn't (try to) constantly get in your way.
- stevepike 6y ago
  Can you expand on what's not working for you? I use KDE via Kubuntu and have found it very stable. The only quirks are desktop environment things that I don't think XFCE even does OOTB, like sometimes it fails to auto-connect bluetooth speakers. The graphics stuff seems totally solid.
- zests 6y ago
  Its probably selection bias. I liked KDE but it was too complicated for my use case. In general I have found that the fewer features a desktop environment has the more I enjoy using it. I’m surprised that the logical minded folk of HN aren’t more geared to minimalist environments like simple window managers. If you’re an engineer why do you need or want a fully fledged desktop environment? I stopped using KDE after I discovered all I needed was a window manager and application launcher.
throwbackThurs 6y ago
Gnome should be annexed by KDE so there is some focus in the community. KDE is faster, more feature rich with a sensible architecture, but it still is flawed. No sensible defaults, too many convoluted and unmaintained apps etc.
linuxhansl 6y ago
Good move. I've played with various DEs, and my work desktop still runs with Gnome (I do not really get a choice there). At home I've been using KDE for years. It's the only one that makes sense to me. I use it on both Laptops and Desktops, small screens and big screens.
qwerty456127 6y ago
Despite KDE is my desktop of choice nowadays (and XFCE is what I always retreated to when Ubuntu switched DEs or when something stopped working), I don't really get why does Ubuntu Studio have to use a DE different from that of the default Ubuntu.
simonh 6y ago
Why is it that the basic unit of distribution for anything Linux is a Distro? Want to serve web applications? Here’s a server distro. Want to work on penetration testing? Here’s a distro. Want to develop embedded systems? Another Distro. Creative arts? Distro again. The OS level fragmentation of Linux is maddening, when you consider that what these actually all are is different operating systems. Why does the Ubuntu desktop operating system need to be re-engineered from the ground up in a to-the-bare-metal OS install just to make it compelling for creatives? What on Earth is wrong with the base Ubuntu desktop distro that makes this in any way a good idea? Is it due to the way that application package repositories are selected and integrated into base desktop distro repositories? It seems like I should be able to install Ubuntu desktop distro with a KDE desktop package selected from the repo, then select all these creative apps and bingo - I’ve got Ubuntu Studio. Or at least start with Kubuntu. I’m sorry if I’m being negative or antagonistic, I genuinely don’t know - what is it about distro engineering, politics or organisation that leads to this situation?
- snazz 6y ago
  It’s a combination of politics and the way that DEs step on each other on Debian-derived distros (more than other package managers, for some reason). For the most part, these specialty distributions are just for newer users who have specific goals and aren’t willing to troubleshoot on their own. Linux is such a vast community that there’s a lot of software that doesn’t play well together. Many people see the value in providing an integrated experience for a particular use.
- mixedCase 6y ago
  Some people want or need a tailored experience that they don't have to configure much if at all. e.g. making Linux suitable for near-real time audio work, restricting Linux to a set of well-tested stable packages for high uptime, making it as close to a standards desktop experience where the expectations are set by Windows and MacOS, making it sandbox absolutely everything by default because you have reasons to be extremely security-conscious, etc Many of these goals are incompatible or at least unfriendly to each other, so you need tailored experiences. And that's fine. Some of us don't. I use Arch btw.
c-smile 6y ago
From https://ubuntustudio.org/about-ubuntustudio/ https://ubuntustudio.org/about-ubuntustudio/ : > Ubuntu Studio is the most widely used multimedia-orientated operating system in the world. Is it the fact or the goal?
overgard 6y ago
I hate to say this, but I feel like the only way we'll ever have a popular and coherent linux desktop is if some large company found it worth their while to consolidate all of this (and actually had the muscle/influence to get people to go along). (I guess you could kind of say that's what happened with Android -- though obviously for mobile and not really in the right spirit). The current linux user-space reminds me of like feudal Europe or something, the idea of anything important coming out of all the bickering just seems like a lost cause. It's forever doomed to be just-usable-enough but never in any way that it'll gain any sort of adoption.
mslack616 6y ago
I've never used Ubuntu studio but this caught my attention, and to be honest it makes a whole lot of sense to me. I understand though that it's really bad news for XFCE users.
jerrysievert 6y ago
not sure why the title of this has changed. previously it was "Ubuntu Studio: Progress on Switch to KDE Plasma", which while it does not match the title on the linked site was informative as to what the post was about. it is now "Progress on Plasma" (matching the site), which given hn's diversity could mean near anything. the context is easy to figure out if you're browsing ubuntustudio.org, but difficult to figure out if not in that context. I've noticed quite a few of these changes lately, and understand the request to "Otherwise please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize", but adding context to a very generic title isn't editorializing.
- dTal 6y ago
  Categorically mandating the preservation of the original title verbatim, come hell or high water, is simply incorrect. On the original website, a page title comes with plenty of assumed context - it's assumed that the reader has some idea of where they are, and why they are there. On Hacker News the title must stand on its own merits, amongst a jostling diaspora of contexts. How often do you see comments saying "I thought this was going to be about <x>"? Too often I say! Change the rules! Viva la revolución!

Progress on Plasma

95 points by jlpcsl 6y ago

diminish 6y ago

I'm more curious if snap/flakpak-based installations will benefit Ubuntu Studio more than servers and other desktops.

WhatIsDukkha 6y ago
One of the primary benefits on audio side of Studio iirc is that the Jack audio server is installed and working. Jack, at this point, doesn't work/sandbox well with flatpak (or snap). Redhat is leading an effort to create Pipewire which will act as a kind of combination of Jack(low latency) and PulseAudio(modern desktop features) that also fold in video routing. As part of the design goals of Pipewire it will sandbox well with flatpak etc. I'm sure there will be lots of whining and noise from poorly informed users but I think it's going to be pretty great when it gets there.

Jonnax 6y ago

Personally I consider the KDE the only DE that feels like it can compete with an OS like Windows or OSX. It's just a lot of small things that add up to make it feel cohesive. Like how the file explorer has a built in terminal that follows the folder you're in. A lot of people call that philosophy bloat. But honestly I've got a PC with 32 GB of RAM and a laptop with 16GB. Like the Ubuntu Studio people have said 50MB more ram usage compared to XFCE isn't a bother at all.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
stestagg 6y ago
> Like how the file explorer has a built in terminal that follows the folder you're in. That’s a nice feature. But it has little to do with Windows/OSX equivalence. It also highlights something I felt last time I tried KDE (admittedly a while ago). There were lots of nice UX innovations and polish. But they didn’t feel familiar to me (as a user of many desktop environments). This makes switching much less of an appealing prospect to me.
- dahfizz 6y ago
  > But they didn’t feel familiar to me. I'm shocked by this, especially when the alternative here is GNOME. You can put a lifelong windows user in front of a plasma machine and they will be able to figure it out easy. There is a start menu, a bottom taskbar, all the window buttons are where they belong, etc. Contrast with gnome, where you can't get anything done unless you already know the magical keyboard shortcuts. Plasma gets criticized often for having too many configuration options and too many features, which I think is just insane. It works perfectly well out of the box, but it allows you to tinker to your heart's content.
  - stestagg 6y ago
    No disagreement here. I don't use gnome desktops, for similar reasons (although I'm also not the target audience for adopters, as I currently use Linux as my primary desktop environment!) I use cinnamon, as, for my personal preferences, it strikes the best balance between familiarity, 'prettiness' and functionality of the options I've tried.
    - suby 6y ago
      I think Cinnamon is really underrated. It has sane defaults, is reasonably performant, and will be familiar to anyone coming from Windows. In general I feel that Gnome has terrible defaults, and are hostile to the user making changes away from these defaults. It's also less performant than Cinnamon -- animations can lag on my machine for example, and my machine isn't exactly bad. I think Plasma is nice, and it's certainly more customizable than Cinnamon, but I think this comes at the cost of reliability and an overall feeling of cohesiveness. I also think there's a point where you don't want every right click menu to contain an option which allows you to fundamentally change the functionality of your desktop. I'd probably be using XFCE or Mate if Cinnamon didn't exist.
- Quekid5 6y ago
  What? You literally said you have only a limited amount of experience with KDE (from 'undefined' time ago), and yet you felt qualified to opine on its suitability for X... now? What?
bananamerica 6y ago
As you said, you got a PC with 32GB of RAM and a laptop with 16GB.
- orf 6y ago
  Exactly - a desktop experience should track the current desktop hardware. If you have 512mb of ram and a pentium 4 then too bad. Let’s not hobble the future because of the past.
  - shrimp_emoji 6y ago
    Amen. Stop fighting the last war.
  - wtetzner 6y ago
    And you don’t need every desktop environment to handle every use case. If you have limited resources, run something like XFCE.
  - guug 6y ago
    What about people who bought a low-to-mid range laptop last year? While 8G isn't .5G, it's still low enough that you'd quickly hit swap (a bloated modern browser + multimedia authoring tools) Tracking "current" desktop hardware is a quick way to get yourself another vista.
    - mrrsm 6y ago
      If you bought a budget computer do you really expect it to be able to handle running even minor taxing applications. In my experience most people who are buying a budget laptop need a great web browsing experience and maybe an office suite (if they aren't using a cloud one already). My guess is running a browser with Spotify or YouTube, some social networking tabs, and maybe google docs or office 365 word will not pose any issues.
    - vosper 6y ago
      > While 8G isn't .5G, it's still low enough that you'd quickly hit swap (a bloated modern browser + multimedia authoring tools) High memory usage from a browser or multimedia authoring tools is not the fault or responsibility of the desktop environment? Edit: Or was your point more that the desktop environment should use minimal memory so that the user can have a better experience with their applications? That makes sense, except in this case Ubuntu Studio explicitly states that it’s designed for powerful machines and not ones with more limited resources
madprops 6y ago
To me the problem with bloat is that it makes projects harder to maintain, also more bugs, not so much about ram usage. If the system in place makes sure the codebase is easily understood and adopted by contributors, then by all means, make all the crazy features you can think of.
shrimp_emoji 6y ago
Besides an integrated terminal, Dolphin also has a split mode! https://i.imgur.com/4blIFer.png https://i.imgur.com/4blIFer.png How does a file manager made by four Dutch guys for free beat Explorer, the file manager of the 99.9% marketshare multi-billion-dollar hegemon OS (which only got a dark mode like yesterday)?
- madprops 6y ago
  And tabs. And drag-dropping things by accident doesn't simply move/copy files but asks you what you want to do.
- nyanpasu64 6y ago
  The integrated terminal behaves badly with zsh/oh-my-zsh (random memory being printed to screen, extra space on the prompt whenever you switch folders), and sometimes fails to track folders. Should I report these issues?
  - jefft255 6y ago
    Of course! The answer to your question is always yes. This is very helpful to OSS developers.
- Sharlin 6y ago
  Well, Norton Commander[1] had a split view and an integrated terminal in 1984. Shipping a power-user file manager has simply never been a priority for Microsoft. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_Commander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_Commander
- mnm1 6y ago
  Not too mention whatever passes for a file manager on osx (finder) that looks and acts like it was created by a thirteen year old boy as his first real program. And not even a boy that's going to go on to program for a living at that.
Kye 6y ago
>> "Like how the file explorer has a built in terminal that follows the folder you're in." You can type cmd + enter in any Explorer address bar and Windows will start a command prompt in that folder. It's not the same, but at least simplifies things.
vondur 6y ago
KDE is actually one of the lightest in terms of memory usage of all the DE's.
- masnao 6y ago
  today. after gnome rewrote the whole thing under "new management"
  - Jonnax 6y ago
    That was 9 years ago.
    - masnao 6y ago
      that's how long KDE prejudice is going on (and how long gnome is still missing old functionality ;)
brnt 6y ago
What KDE can compete with I don't know, but I do know its the only DE I can stand and actually enjoy using. And I compare it not only with Gnome, but Windows and MacOS too. Highly recommend you take a look if you don't know it (recently).

fit2rule 6y ago

As a longtime user of Ubuntu Studio on a very productive DAW, this is welcome news - XFCE has certainly been a great choice for the last few years, but KDE has a lot more to offer, especially now the resource usage is comparable. I have a feeling it'll also sway MacOS DAW users to take a closer look at just what Linux has to offer pro audio users - amazing latency specs, even when compared to Mac, which has traditionally had better latency than Windows - as well as a full suite of excellent tools for Audio and Video production, out of the box. XFCE is functional but MacOS creatives get a bit snobby about it during the first OOBE - won't be so easily snubbed when KDE is on by default. I look forward to giving this new version of Ubuntu Studio a tryout in my studio ..

qppo 6y ago
Is this a joke? There's so much overhead in getting a working setup compared to MacOS, and only one of the major DAWs even runs natively on it. The tools are far from "excellent" compared to the offerings on MacOS and even Windows. I can't even get the Jack server to start on my Ubuntu machine. It's not snobbiness, the software isn't there and what is there is user hostile. I know the reply to this comment is "have you tried X, or just do Y then Z!" On Mac I install software and double click it. I plug in my interface. Maybe I plug in a dongle if I need it. That's it. There's no messing with configurations, installing or uninstalling dependencies, drivers that work, driver management software that works (or just exists), and no bullshit like jack needed at all. Linux, including Ubuntu Studio is miles away from being sensible for any audio content creation. The experience is horrible.
- veridies 6y ago
  I agree with you, unfortunately. Obviously Linux has a great deal of flexibility, but the basic tools one relies upon for audio editing either aren't there or are significantly handicapped. I once tried a basic project idea on my linux laptop to see how well I could get it to work; after three days it was almost usable. The same project took me an hour on my Mac with Logic Pro X.
  - fit2rule 6y ago

kevinherron 6y ago

I wish KDE had the same level of resources behind it as GNOME does. I keep occasionally trying new versions of GNOME but it feels like a DE optimized to look good in screenshots and always falls short when actually using it. KDE on the other hand looks relatively good and is infinitely more usable to me. It's got some rougher edges and a weaker application ecosystem but still comes out ahead for me. I also vastly prefer using apps written in QT to those written in GTK and despise CSD...

flyingpenguin 6y ago
I don't want to defend Gnome because I also can't stand it over KDE most of the time, but I think GNOME is built for one actually useful thing... laptops. Gnome feels good on a computer with a single small display.
- CoolGuySteve 6y ago
  I'm probably the last person who still uses Unity and it's for this exact reason. I set the launch bar to auto hide and use the compiz Expose clone hot corners to switch windows. It all just gets out of the way. I don't know why Gnome didn't adopt the Unity menu bar integration, instead you get to waste space on the taskbar on the bottom AND that useless status bar on the top.
  - mroche 6y ago
    > I don't know why Gnome didn't adopt the Unity menu bar integration, instead you get to waste space on the taskbar on the bottom AND that useless status bar on the top. Are you referring to the Window List extension? Why not use Dash to Dock instead, or even Dash to Panel (not sure if it’s current state, I don’t use it) which will also replace the main top status panel. I’m a GNOME user on a single display (X because NVIDIA and 3D industry apps) and it works well for me. I do like the other DE’s though, I’m pretty agnostic in that sense.
    - CoolGuySteve 6y ago

squarefoot 6y ago

They write about negligible memory overhead by KDE over XFCE, but the measurement is done on a Live image just after a fresh boot, that is, not a real use case. I would ask them to take the same measurements after like half an hour of loading all XFCE accessories and their corresponding ones on KDE. Otherwise the test wouldn't take into account the impact of loading times and caching of modules and libraries, which KDE has in much larger numbers than XFCE.

janoc 6y ago
It doesn't really matter. Ubuntu Studio is a distro tailored for multimedia production. You are not going to use that on a machine with a small amount of RAM. For comparison, I am running Mageia 7 with Plasma and after the entire day of working (C development, browser open with many tabs, e-mail ...), the machine shows 3.5GB used RAM with another 6.5GB of cache/buffers, out of 16GB of RAM. Squabbling over few hundred MB of RAM that Plasma may take extra is ridiculous when a web browser alone can take 2GB+ RAM and a large RAW format photo loaded in Gimp or Krita detto.

andai 6y ago

People who use KDE, what's your favorite distro? I wanna give ita shot.

coopsmgoops 6y ago
KDE has their own plasma distribution, I've never used it but it seems like a solid option
- xyquadrat 6y ago
  To elaborate on this, we (we as in other developers in KDE, not me personally) have created KDE Neon (https://neon.kde.org/ https://neon.kde.org/) which is Ubuntu LTS + the latest KDE software. It's great for using the up-to-date KDE Plasma & application versions while having a stable base in Ubuntu LTS. I've personally used it for nearly 3 years now, and never had any problems with KDE Neon. It probably isn't a good option if you'd like to have the newest versions everywhere, since the base system is only thoroughly upgraded on every Ubuntu LTS release. If you have any questions regarding KDE software or KDE Neon, I'd be happy to answer them on #kde:kde.org (Matrix) which is also bridged to #kde on freenode.
  - magicalhippo 6y ago
    I've been a happy KDE Neon user on my secondary desktop, an Intel NUC, for about 3-4 years now. I use it multiple hours each day and it's been a very pleasant experience, as in it does its thing and doesn't get in my way. Was seriously considering using it for my primary desktop, but that'll have to wait until there's a viable RDP alternative.
specktr 6y ago
I’ve been using Fedora for over a year with KDE. Before that it was Kubuntu for a year. The difference is night and day in my opinion. I believe this is due to the constant updates on fedora that fixed many annoying bugs I had with the ubuntu install. The downside is that you are likely to get a kernel update about once a week, it honestly hasn’t been an issue and i’m a college student who needs essentially 100% uptime on my boxes. But in my opinion it’s the perfect trade off since it’s not quite rolling but still on the cutting edge for the most part.

jbk 6y ago

It's quite nice that they managed to make the plasma version look the same as the Xfce version.

Der_Einzige 6y ago

I don't know where all of the love for KDE is coming from. It's got so many graphical and UI bugs even in comparison to XFCE that I can't use it as my daily driver.

snazz 6y ago
What kinds of bugs are you talking about? I think part of the problem with KDE is that it's large enough that two users might be using completely different parts of it---I find that it's far more stable than GNOME, for instance. I'm not a fan of how its compositor makes scrolling look (I much prefer how Sway or even Windows does it) or how the compositor interacts with SDL applications, but that's not exactly a "bug".
guug 6y ago
A good user interface is one you don't realize you're using. KDE is flexible enough to fit many workflows and doesn't (try to) constantly get in your way.
stevepike 6y ago
Can you expand on what's not working for you? I use KDE via Kubuntu and have found it very stable. The only quirks are desktop environment things that I don't think XFCE even does OOTB, like sometimes it fails to auto-connect bluetooth speakers. The graphics stuff seems totally solid.
zests 6y ago
Its probably selection bias. I liked KDE but it was too complicated for my use case. In general I have found that the fewer features a desktop environment has the more I enjoy using it. I’m surprised that the logical minded folk of HN aren’t more geared to minimalist environments like simple window managers. If you’re an engineer why do you need or want a fully fledged desktop environment? I stopped using KDE after I discovered all I needed was a window manager and application launcher.

throwbackThurs 6y ago

Gnome should be annexed by KDE so there is some focus in the community. KDE is faster, more feature rich with a sensible architecture, but it still is flawed. No sensible defaults, too many convoluted and unmaintained apps etc.

linuxhansl 6y ago

Good move. I've played with various DEs, and my work desktop still runs with Gnome (I do not really get a choice there). At home I've been using KDE for years. It's the only one that makes sense to me. I use it on both Laptops and Desktops, small screens and big screens.

qwerty456127 6y ago

Despite KDE is my desktop of choice nowadays (and XFCE is what I always retreated to when Ubuntu switched DEs or when something stopped working), I don't really get why does Ubuntu Studio have to use a DE different from that of the default Ubuntu.

simonh 6y ago

Why is it that the basic unit of distribution for anything Linux is a Distro? Want to serve web applications? Here’s a server distro. Want to work on penetration testing? Here’s a distro. Want to develop embedded systems? Another Distro. Creative arts? Distro again. The OS level fragmentation of Linux is maddening, when you consider that what these actually all are is different operating systems. Why does the Ubuntu desktop operating system need to be re-engineered from the ground up in a to-the-bare-metal OS install just to make it compelling for creatives? What on Earth is wrong with the base Ubuntu desktop distro that makes this in any way a good idea? Is it due to the way that application package repositories are selected and integrated into base desktop distro repositories? It seems like I should be able to install Ubuntu desktop distro with a KDE desktop package selected from the repo, then select all these creative apps and bingo - I’ve got Ubuntu Studio. Or at least start with Kubuntu. I’m sorry if I’m being negative or antagonistic, I genuinely don’t know - what is it about distro engineering, politics or organisation that leads to this situation?

snazz 6y ago
It’s a combination of politics and the way that DEs step on each other on Debian-derived distros (more than other package managers, for some reason). For the most part, these specialty distributions are just for newer users who have specific goals and aren’t willing to troubleshoot on their own. Linux is such a vast community that there’s a lot of software that doesn’t play well together. Many people see the value in providing an integrated experience for a particular use.
mixedCase 6y ago
Some people want or need a tailored experience that they don't have to configure much if at all. e.g. making Linux suitable for near-real time audio work, restricting Linux to a set of well-tested stable packages for high uptime, making it as close to a standards desktop experience where the expectations are set by Windows and MacOS, making it sandbox absolutely everything by default because you have reasons to be extremely security-conscious, etc Many of these goals are incompatible or at least unfriendly to each other, so you need tailored experiences. And that's fine. Some of us don't. I use Arch btw.

c-smile 6y ago

From https://ubuntustudio.org/about-ubuntustudio/ https://ubuntustudio.org/about-ubuntustudio/ : > Ubuntu Studio is the most widely used multimedia-orientated operating system in the world. Is it the fact or the goal?

overgard 6y ago

I hate to say this, but I feel like the only way we'll ever have a popular and coherent linux desktop is if some large company found it worth their while to consolidate all of this (and actually had the muscle/influence to get people to go along). (I guess you could kind of say that's what happened with Android -- though obviously for mobile and not really in the right spirit). The current linux user-space reminds me of like feudal Europe or something, the idea of anything important coming out of all the bickering just seems like a lost cause. It's forever doomed to be just-usable-enough but never in any way that it'll gain any sort of adoption.

mslack616 6y ago

I've never used Ubuntu studio but this caught my attention, and to be honest it makes a whole lot of sense to me. I understand though that it's really bad news for XFCE users.

jerrysievert 6y ago

not sure why the title of this has changed. previously it was "Ubuntu Studio: Progress on Switch to KDE Plasma", which while it does not match the title on the linked site was informative as to what the post was about. it is now "Progress on Plasma" (matching the site), which given hn's diversity could mean near anything. the context is easy to figure out if you're browsing ubuntustudio.org, but difficult to figure out if not in that context. I've noticed quite a few of these changes lately, and understand the request to "Otherwise please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize", but adding context to a very generic title isn't editorializing.

dTal 6y ago
Categorically mandating the preservation of the original title verbatim, come hell or high water, is simply incorrect. On the original website, a page title comes with plenty of assumed context - it's assumed that the reader has some idea of where they are, and why they are there. On Hacker News the title must stand on its own merits, amongst a jostling diaspora of contexts. How often do you see comments saying "I thought this was going to be about <x>"? Too often I say! Change the rules! Viva la revolución!