5 ms·

I don't notice much of a difference with reading, but I do feel the same way about writing; digital todo lists or notes just don't work for me. I used to think

I don't notice much of a difference with reading, but I do feel the same way about writing; digital todo lists or notes just don't work for me. I used to think this was about the act of writing in itself - that doing it by hand forced me to be more conscious of the information - but writing with e.g. an Apple Pencil on an iPad is just as useless as typing. I'd really like to figure this out because I love the idea of searchable notes that are available anywhere, any time, and aren't dependent on a dead tree for their longevity, but I haven't found the solution yet. I have a theory that it might be related to the fundamental experience (friction, texture) of a pen and paper, so I'm considering a reMarkable[1] but I'm wary of obsolescence. 1. https://remarkable.com https://remarkable.com

dwaltrip 6y ago
The single-purposeness and simplicity of non-digital tools is important, I think. Paper doesn't have a web browser hovering behind that icon, waiting to be easily clicked at any moment. Our brain knows that infinite oceans of content and stimuli are lurking there.
- tjpnz 6y ago
  As someone with ADHD I can absolutely identify with that. I've tried ebooks in the past but due to distractions tend to come away with very little comprehension of what I've just read. Dead tree books are a lifesaver, I'm able to completely unplug and can consume multiple chapters in a single sitting.
  - stevewillows 6y ago
    It'd be worth trying out a proper ereader. I picked up a Kobo Libra so I could get back into reading and away from audiobooks a bit. I've read studies that the brain can't tell between the two, but I was halfway through an audiobook recently and realized I had no clue what was going on. I bought this as my summer project -- basically, 'Steve, let's retrain your brain to focus on long form reading again.' What I like about an ereader / eink is that its not some flashy screen with a bunch of stuff going on in the background like an iPad or whatever. The screens look great and have an amazing refresh rate these days. The Libra is a 7" screen, which I figured should be good enough to read PDF'd magazines in landscape -- and I was right [1]! This uses KOReader [2]. While the images themselves aren't the same as a color magazine/screen, it's good enough. For epubs everything is exactly as you'd expect. With my own ADHD, the initial get-down-to-reading is tough, but I've noticed that it is getting easier with each session. And it is also getting to the point where I am looking forward to reading. [1] https://i.imgur.com/9hncMyI.jpg https://i.imgur.com/9hncMyI.jpg [2] https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295612 https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295612
    - dorchadas 6y ago
      I still find a huge difference between ereader and physical book myself. I have a Kindle Fire, which I keep constantly in airplane mode and use no apps except Scribd on, but I find myself reading much faster on it, and also remembering much less of what I actually do read. And I can barely read pdfs on my mac, even with airplane mode and other distraction-reducing things turned on. I just don't like the format. I've come to realize I truly do best recall from physical books, and if I want to learn something new, I'll likely buy physical, though I might use pdfs for a while to test quality.
      - stevewillows 6y ago
        are kindle fires eink? If not, you should check out some eink -- its so much better than an LED/LCD etc screen.
        dorchadas 6y ago
        They're not unfortunately, but the Scribd app also doesn't work on the e-ink readers either (Scribd is really the only reason I have a Fire over e-ink). Lately my Fire has been having issues, so I'll likely switch over to e-ink next time I purchase one and give it a shot. But I think it's just something about physically holding a book that helps me retain more from it -- I've found this to be true even when I'm reading the same book on both (taking the Kindle out walking on a windy day, but reading the physical copy at home)
        stevewillows 6y ago
        I think a lot of people have the same experience with paper vs a device -- even an e-reader. Even if it's just a placebo, it's still valid. I had an old Kindle Keyboard (wifi.) I struggled reading off of that thing -- whereas this new Kobo Libra actually looks like paper and is a breeze to read off of, which may also be a placebo. :)
baxtr 6y ago
Same here. I’m so much more productive whenever I write down my todos on a simple sheet of paper. I have a very elaborated online todo list. But still, paper works more effectively. I have no clue why and it frustrates me
- kd5bjo 6y ago
  I think part of it is that paper is completely unopinionated: all it’s doing is holding whatever marks you make for later. That means your brain has to do the work of deciding what marks to make and their meaning; the more work your brain does on any given task, the more memories there are for you to latch onto when remembering.
- malloryerik 6y ago
  When you write a note on paper you've made a unique physical object and maybe that fits better into our memories somehow, for example by inhabiting a space that we can recall? Whereas digital data appears to break the mental physical space rule that a thing exists in a certain place? As for notes on a phone or computer, they've disappeared into another dimension and are harder to think of as being "at hand." We can't really use our spatial memory on digital stuff, I'm guessing. A Kindle might be better since your current page in your current book opens as soon as you wake it up, more like a physical object and less like something that disappears into and reappears out of a magician's bag. I find with my Kindle and ebooks in general that I'd really like some minimal but ever-present indication of my place in the book, even a single pixel progress bar, maybe in part because I yearn for some kind of spatial-object relationship with the book. With pen and paper notes I've got a 3d object that I've altered. Maybe it feels more present in the same way that cash on a table feels more like "real money" than the credit card next to it.
sq_ 6y ago
I've also thought about trying out a reMarkable! I'm a little too cash-strapped to justify it these days, but maybe sometime in the future. I agree with other commenters here that a lot of it could be conditioning, but I've also found, like you, that even handwriting on devices is lacking compared to doing it with pen and paper. My personal theory is that it might have something to do with the ability to reason in a more spatially oriented way when we use pen and paper to write things down.

dwaltrip 6y ago

The single-purposeness and simplicity of non-digital tools is important, I think. Paper doesn't have a web browser hovering behind that icon, waiting to be easily clicked at any moment. Our brain knows that infinite oceans of content and stimuli are lurking there.

tjpnz 6y ago
As someone with ADHD I can absolutely identify with that. I've tried ebooks in the past but due to distractions tend to come away with very little comprehension of what I've just read. Dead tree books are a lifesaver, I'm able to completely unplug and can consume multiple chapters in a single sitting.
- stevewillows 6y ago
  It'd be worth trying out a proper ereader. I picked up a Kobo Libra so I could get back into reading and away from audiobooks a bit. I've read studies that the brain can't tell between the two, but I was halfway through an audiobook recently and realized I had no clue what was going on. I bought this as my summer project -- basically, 'Steve, let's retrain your brain to focus on long form reading again.' What I like about an ereader / eink is that its not some flashy screen with a bunch of stuff going on in the background like an iPad or whatever. The screens look great and have an amazing refresh rate these days. The Libra is a 7" screen, which I figured should be good enough to read PDF'd magazines in landscape -- and I was right [1]! This uses KOReader [2]. While the images themselves aren't the same as a color magazine/screen, it's good enough. For epubs everything is exactly as you'd expect. With my own ADHD, the initial get-down-to-reading is tough, but I've noticed that it is getting easier with each session. And it is also getting to the point where I am looking forward to reading. [1] https://i.imgur.com/9hncMyI.jpg https://i.imgur.com/9hncMyI.jpg [2] https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295612 https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295612
  - dorchadas 6y ago
    I still find a huge difference between ereader and physical book myself. I have a Kindle Fire, which I keep constantly in airplane mode and use no apps except Scribd on, but I find myself reading much faster on it, and also remembering much less of what I actually do read. And I can barely read pdfs on my mac, even with airplane mode and other distraction-reducing things turned on. I just don't like the format. I've come to realize I truly do best recall from physical books, and if I want to learn something new, I'll likely buy physical, though I might use pdfs for a while to test quality.
    - stevewillows 6y ago
      are kindle fires eink? If not, you should check out some eink -- its so much better than an LED/LCD etc screen.
      - dorchadas 6y ago
        They're not unfortunately, but the Scribd app also doesn't work on the e-ink readers either (Scribd is really the only reason I have a Fire over e-ink). Lately my Fire has been having issues, so I'll likely switch over to e-ink next time I purchase one and give it a shot. But I think it's just something about physically holding a book that helps me retain more from it -- I've found this to be true even when I'm reading the same book on both (taking the Kindle out walking on a windy day, but reading the physical copy at home)
        stevewillows 6y ago
        I think a lot of people have the same experience with paper vs a device -- even an e-reader. Even if it's just a placebo, it's still valid. I had an old Kindle Keyboard (wifi.) I struggled reading off of that thing -- whereas this new Kobo Libra actually looks like paper and is a breeze to read off of, which may also be a placebo. :)

baxtr 6y ago

Same here. I’m so much more productive whenever I write down my todos on a simple sheet of paper. I have a very elaborated online todo list. But still, paper works more effectively. I have no clue why and it frustrates me

kd5bjo 6y ago
I think part of it is that paper is completely unopinionated: all it’s doing is holding whatever marks you make for later. That means your brain has to do the work of deciding what marks to make and their meaning; the more work your brain does on any given task, the more memories there are for you to latch onto when remembering.
malloryerik 6y ago
When you write a note on paper you've made a unique physical object and maybe that fits better into our memories somehow, for example by inhabiting a space that we can recall? Whereas digital data appears to break the mental physical space rule that a thing exists in a certain place? As for notes on a phone or computer, they've disappeared into another dimension and are harder to think of as being "at hand." We can't really use our spatial memory on digital stuff, I'm guessing. A Kindle might be better since your current page in your current book opens as soon as you wake it up, more like a physical object and less like something that disappears into and reappears out of a magician's bag. I find with my Kindle and ebooks in general that I'd really like some minimal but ever-present indication of my place in the book, even a single pixel progress bar, maybe in part because I yearn for some kind of spatial-object relationship with the book. With pen and paper notes I've got a 3d object that I've altered. Maybe it feels more present in the same way that cash on a table feels more like "real money" than the credit card next to it.

sq_ 6y ago

I've also thought about trying out a reMarkable! I'm a little too cash-strapped to justify it these days, but maybe sometime in the future. I agree with other commenters here that a lot of it could be conditioning, but I've also found, like you, that even handwriting on devices is lacking compared to doing it with pen and paper. My personal theory is that it might have something to do with the ability to reason in a more spatially oriented way when we use pen and paper to write things down.