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Anytime I hear people, in conversation, speak about police and draw any kind of distinction between "Police" and "Civilians" (their language) I immediately inte

by rsync 6y ago

Anytime I hear people, in conversation, speak about police and draw any kind of distinction between "Police" and "Civilians" (their language) I immediately interrupt and correct them: Police are civilians. As a firefighter/medic this is sometimes uncomfortable, depending on the setting, but I persist. I would like it if this pushback, in language, would grow and I encourage everyone to make these corrections. EDIT: to be clear, I am encouraging a distinction between civilians (like you, or I, or police officers) and the military who are governed by their own code of justice and held to a different standard of law and order.

gwd 6y ago
> Police are civilians. Well the police certainly aren't (or shouldn't be) military, if that's what you mean. But there certainly should be a distinction made between the police and a random guy with a gun who thinks the black dude that just jogged by is the thief they've been looking for.
- scarface74 6y ago
  For reference; https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/video-appears-show-georgia-man-shot-while-jogging-lawyers-call-n1201301 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/video-appears-show-georg...
Infinitesimus 6y ago
With all due respect, that theory is divorced from reality. In practice, police consistently abuse power with little consequence. If doubtful, review what happens with most of the cases when ethnic minorities are killed, harassed, and abused by cops over the past several decades. [ the perpetrators getting a slap on the wrist ] A cop can shoot and kill you, say they were "afraid for their life" and walk away. Warning, disturbing content: (See: https://youtu.be/n1pJe_Tcdeg https://youtu.be/n1pJe_Tcdeg and many other deaths). Police can steal your possessions under the umbrella of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_Unit... with minimal recourse. I like to believe you when you say police are civilians, but let's call a spade a spade. They sure act above the law civilians have to follow (hint: because they are.) > EDIT: to be clear, I am encouraging a distinction between civilians (like you, or I, or police officers) and the military who are governed by their own code of justice and held to a different standard of law and order. The police are held to a different standard of law and order. Do you truly believe otherwise in the United States of America?
tehwebguy 6y ago
The article here is specifically about how police can murder unarmed people with near-blanket immunity, they are very much not the same.
soneil 6y ago
As a European, this is the biggest distinction I see. Policing as a verb is society's job. Police as a noun, is someone who's taken this as their primary role. It's not supposed to be us against them - there is no them.
oefrha 6y ago
In U.S. police departments and sheriff’s offices, there’s a clear distinction between sworn officers and civilian employees, so it’s definitely more than “their words”.
FireBeyond 6y ago
> As a firefighter/medic And today I learn rsync is a fellow fire/medic. I entirely agree too. I work with several police departments and let's just say that there is a wide spectrum of attitudes and perspectives. One local department had two excited delirium deaths in custody a few years back, leading to a coordinated LE/EMS significant training program on recognition and response as a medical emergency, not a criminal one, despite the fact that many of the hallmarks of excited delirium are "antisocial" and lead to a LE response (hyperthermia, leading to people naked in public), glass (reflections) attraction (leading to breaking windows, etc.), keening (animal noises, "he's crazy!"), bruxism (grinding of teeth, taken to the extreme, gnawing on things/people). Every other department in the County was onboard. Excited to learn. Sure, help prevent deaths in custody and lawsuits! "Compassionate policing"! Win, win. Not the department involved. They wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. "We will continue with our SOPs". It was like an episode of The Office where I believe there was a sexual harrassment issue, and everyone has to take training, except Michael, who believes he doesn't need it. Until he's taken aside and told "Actually, this is because _you_ messed up. We just didn't want to single you out and make an example of you".

by rsync 6y ago

gwd 6y ago

> Police are civilians. Well the police certainly aren't (or shouldn't be) military, if that's what you mean. But there certainly should be a distinction made between the police and a random guy with a gun who thinks the black dude that just jogged by is the thief they've been looking for.

scarface74 6y ago
For reference; https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/video-appears-show-georgia-man-shot-while-jogging-lawyers-call-n1201301 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/video-appears-show-georg...

Infinitesimus 6y ago

With all due respect, that theory is divorced from reality. In practice, police consistently abuse power with little consequence. If doubtful, review what happens with most of the cases when ethnic minorities are killed, harassed, and abused by cops over the past several decades. [ the perpetrators getting a slap on the wrist ] A cop can shoot and kill you, say they were "afraid for their life" and walk away. Warning, disturbing content: (See: https://youtu.be/n1pJe_Tcdeg https://youtu.be/n1pJe_Tcdeg and many other deaths). Police can steal your possessions under the umbrella of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_Unit... with minimal recourse. I like to believe you when you say police are civilians, but let's call a spade a spade. They sure act above the law civilians have to follow (hint: because they are.) > EDIT: to be clear, I am encouraging a distinction between civilians (like you, or I, or police officers) and the military who are governed by their own code of justice and held to a different standard of law and order. The police are held to a different standard of law and order. Do you truly believe otherwise in the United States of America?

tehwebguy 6y ago

The article here is specifically about how police can murder unarmed people with near-blanket immunity, they are very much not the same.

soneil 6y ago

As a European, this is the biggest distinction I see. Policing as a verb is society's job. Police as a noun, is someone who's taken this as their primary role. It's not supposed to be us against them - there is no them.

oefrha 6y ago

In U.S. police departments and sheriff’s offices, there’s a clear distinction between sworn officers and civilian employees, so it’s definitely more than “their words”.

FireBeyond 6y ago

> As a firefighter/medic And today I learn rsync is a fellow fire/medic. I entirely agree too. I work with several police departments and let's just say that there is a wide spectrum of attitudes and perspectives. One local department had two excited delirium deaths in custody a few years back, leading to a coordinated LE/EMS significant training program on recognition and response as a medical emergency, not a criminal one, despite the fact that many of the hallmarks of excited delirium are "antisocial" and lead to a LE response (hyperthermia, leading to people naked in public), glass (reflections) attraction (leading to breaking windows, etc.), keening (animal noises, "he's crazy!"), bruxism (grinding of teeth, taken to the extreme, gnawing on things/people). Every other department in the County was onboard. Excited to learn. Sure, help prevent deaths in custody and lawsuits! "Compassionate policing"! Win, win. Not the department involved. They wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. "We will continue with our SOPs". It was like an episode of The Office where I believe there was a sexual harrassment issue, and everyone has to take training, except Michael, who believes he doesn't need it. Until he's taken aside and told "Actually, this is because _you_ messed up. We just didn't want to single you out and make an example of you".