7 ms·

My sister is a DA so I hear the other side of this. Police are people and they can get scared, angry, and make mistakes. Deaths at the hands of police are alw

My sister is a DA so I hear the other side of this. Police are people and they can get scared, angry, and make mistakes. Deaths at the hands of police are always horrible but an important message that is not broadcast clearly enough in every community is... NEVER RESIST ARREST! Never! When a police officer instructs you to do something just do it. If you disagree with the order there is a mechanism to voice that disagreement called the court. If you defy a police directive they will use rapidly escalating force to make you comply that can endanger your life. This used to be pretty well understood and I think we need better public communication about this. We also need to make sure the courts are more accomodating to underprivileged communities because if people don't believe the courts are fair then disputes are going to get settled in the street with violence. EDIT: On the other side I believe if a police officer contributes to the death of someone in the line of duty they need to surrender their badge, even if they played by the rules. If the other person loses their life you should at least lose your job. That kind of incentive might discourage some of the cowboy culture on their side that's not helping here.

zorked 6y ago
Like you I also come from a third-world country and this sort of thing is also the advice there. Now I live in a much better country and I no longer have to fear the police. Quite a change. There is no way why this has to be the way it is. If you are afraid of the police, it is the police's fault. Time to start arresting them and cleaning up.
- djyaz1200 6y ago
  I agree some of them are bad hence my edit. The problem is two sided and we should address problems on both sides.
- LB232323 6y ago
  There is something enlightening and deeply inspiring about how protesters in Ecuador were able to detain the police themselves and order them to unequip their riot gear. Among the crowd they were presented as equal to the protesters. Many riot police are portrayed as faceless monsters hiding behind riot masks and advanced military equipment. It had never occurred to me that the people can win and detain the police, not the other way around.
  - bob1029 6y ago
    This is the silent understanding that most police departments operate under and produce optics to insulate against. They know its a 100:1 ratio at best and if everyone in town decided no more police all at once, there's not a whole lot the local sheriff could do about it without ramping directly into a regional revolution. This is why the police departments in America parade around in armored vehicles and use absurdly overpowered weapons for regular duty. The intent is to keep everyone thinking that the police are incomprehensibly overpowering and could never be approached in a direct conflict. The reality is that it wouldn't take much to wrest back control and they know it. The 2nd amendment is your best friend if you are an American. You should NEVER have to use it, but it's like your copy of the police having an M1A1 tank at the local precinct. Just like you have to worry that the SWAT team might arbitrarily come into your house and end your life, they should have to worry that maybe one day everyone in town is going to get tired of their shit and band together to put an end to it all.
    - dantheman 6y ago
      And it's worked and happened in the past: https://www.npr.org/2015/09/23/442801731/director-chronicles-the-black-panthers-rise-new-tactics-were-needed https://www.npr.org/2015/09/23/442801731/director-chronicles...
    - djyaz1200 6y ago
      I fully agree and this documentary illustrates your point well. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/american-patriot-inside-the-armed-uprising-against-the-federal-government/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/american-patriot-ins...
nateabele 6y ago
> My sister is a DA so I hear the other side of this. Police are people and they can get scared, angry, and make mistakes. Except unlike people in other professions, when police get scared, angry, and make mistakes, other people die. In other sectors, where courts, politicians and the public haven't been brain-washed by the never-ending chorus of 'officer safety', people with that kind of power are held to a commensurate level of accountability. That's the central issue, which you're attempting to side-step. > Deaths at the hands of police are always horrible but an important message that is not broadcast clearly enough in every community is... NEVER RESIST ARREST! Aside from a clear victim-blaming bias, even casual observation rules this out as a panacea. Far from it.
- djyaz1200 6y ago
  "Except unlike people in other professions, when police get scared, angry, and make mistakes, other people die." Fair point, hence the edit.
quag 6y ago
How can I train myself so that I will not resist arrest while I am delusional and dying of covid-19 in hospital? (The case discussed in the article was of someone delusional while in the final stages of pneumonia.)
ComputerGuru 6y ago
Yes, as a matter of personal survival: never resist arrest. As a matter of conscious and principal though, passively resisting arrest should never lead to your execution. Acknowledging it’s not the case and thereby personally making sure to comply with the police does not make it “right” for this to be the norm.
oefrha 6y ago
Except quite some cases do not involve resisting arrest. Take all those swatting cases for example. Good honest people don’t deal with cops on a daily basis, or at all; so when cops suddenly show up with guns drawn while shouting commands (sometimes indistinguishably), they get utterly confused and panic, and naturally may not be able to comply with anything. And it doesn’t matter whether you actually pose a threat; as long as you might be perceived to pose a threat (or maybe not even that), you could end up dead. Holding a phone in your hand? “Looks like a gun to me” — bam, you’re a goner. Can’t see your hands? Bam. During the decade I lived in the States, I often wonder if I would be the next random guy to fall victim to cops. (That, and random mass shootings. Things totally out of my control.) Simply not a fear I ever had to deal with everywhere else I’ve lived or traveled.
optymizer 6y ago
You seem to have a very simplistic view of police, I almost envy you for it. None of what you're saying needs to be a reality. None of it is necessary. > Police are people and they can get scared, angry, and make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes - that doesn't excuse anyone from paying for those mistakes. Some of these mistakes cost lives. Regular folks go to jail. The police in the US, in general, doesn't. Those who do are the exception. Usually - suspension, investigation, acquitted. > When a police officer instructs you to do something just do it. What do you think happens when 'the police' shouts conflicting instructions? The answer is: you get shot [0] What if the police instructs you to do something illegal? What if the police sexually assaults you? [1] > If you disagree with the order there is a mechanism to voice that disagreement called the court. So what you're saying is that if you disagree with a decision the police officer makes in a split second, you should spend the next several years of your life in the court system? When (not if) the police illegally seizes your property, it's OK for you to spend the next few years in the court system to get that property back to be able to return to normal life, right? [2] > they will use rapidly escalating force to make you comply that can endanger your life Why? Is that necessary? The police in other developed countries, for example the UK, is overall orders of magnitude more civilized and respectful than the US police. > This used to be pretty well understood No, what used to be well understood is that the police is there to serve and protect. Serve and protect. The police is not there to intimidate citizens. The police is not there to beat you into obedience. The police is not there to escalate the situation until it results in you losing your life. > I think we need better public communication about this. It's not the public that needs to be better educated on how to handle themselves around the police. It's the police that needs to be better educated on how to handle people. > We also need to make sure the courts are more accomodating to underprivileged communities because if people don't believe the courts are fair then disputes are going to get settled in the street with violence Did you even read the article you're commenting on? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ooa7wOKHhg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ooa7wOKHhg [1] https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/19/us/police-sexual-assaults-maryland-scope/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/19/us/police-sexual-assaults-mar... [2] https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-news/john-oliver-amplifies-the-absurdity-of-civil-forfeitures-191049/ https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-news/john-oliver-amplifie...
dantheman 6y ago
There are more than enough people who want to be police, we can set a very high bar and fire those who don't perform. Police should be de-escalating in all circumstances, they should move slowly and not fire until fire upon. Soldiers have stricter rules of engagement than police.

zorked 6y ago

Like you I also come from a third-world country and this sort of thing is also the advice there. Now I live in a much better country and I no longer have to fear the police. Quite a change. There is no way why this has to be the way it is. If you are afraid of the police, it is the police's fault. Time to start arresting them and cleaning up.

djyaz1200 6y ago
I agree some of them are bad hence my edit. The problem is two sided and we should address problems on both sides.
LB232323 6y ago
There is something enlightening and deeply inspiring about how protesters in Ecuador were able to detain the police themselves and order them to unequip their riot gear. Among the crowd they were presented as equal to the protesters. Many riot police are portrayed as faceless monsters hiding behind riot masks and advanced military equipment. It had never occurred to me that the people can win and detain the police, not the other way around.
- bob1029 6y ago
  This is the silent understanding that most police departments operate under and produce optics to insulate against. They know its a 100:1 ratio at best and if everyone in town decided no more police all at once, there's not a whole lot the local sheriff could do about it without ramping directly into a regional revolution. This is why the police departments in America parade around in armored vehicles and use absurdly overpowered weapons for regular duty. The intent is to keep everyone thinking that the police are incomprehensibly overpowering and could never be approached in a direct conflict. The reality is that it wouldn't take much to wrest back control and they know it. The 2nd amendment is your best friend if you are an American. You should NEVER have to use it, but it's like your copy of the police having an M1A1 tank at the local precinct. Just like you have to worry that the SWAT team might arbitrarily come into your house and end your life, they should have to worry that maybe one day everyone in town is going to get tired of their shit and band together to put an end to it all.
  - dantheman 6y ago
    And it's worked and happened in the past: https://www.npr.org/2015/09/23/442801731/director-chronicles-the-black-panthers-rise-new-tactics-were-needed https://www.npr.org/2015/09/23/442801731/director-chronicles...
  - djyaz1200 6y ago
    I fully agree and this documentary illustrates your point well. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/american-patriot-inside-the-armed-uprising-against-the-federal-government/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/american-patriot-ins...

nateabele 6y ago

> My sister is a DA so I hear the other side of this. Police are people and they can get scared, angry, and make mistakes. Except unlike people in other professions, when police get scared, angry, and make mistakes, other people die. In other sectors, where courts, politicians and the public haven't been brain-washed by the never-ending chorus of 'officer safety', people with that kind of power are held to a commensurate level of accountability. That's the central issue, which you're attempting to side-step. > Deaths at the hands of police are always horrible but an important message that is not broadcast clearly enough in every community is... NEVER RESIST ARREST! Aside from a clear victim-blaming bias, even casual observation rules this out as a panacea. Far from it.

djyaz1200 6y ago
"Except unlike people in other professions, when police get scared, angry, and make mistakes, other people die." Fair point, hence the edit.

quag 6y ago

How can I train myself so that I will not resist arrest while I am delusional and dying of covid-19 in hospital? (The case discussed in the article was of someone delusional while in the final stages of pneumonia.)

ComputerGuru 6y ago

Yes, as a matter of personal survival: never resist arrest. As a matter of conscious and principal though, passively resisting arrest should never lead to your execution. Acknowledging it’s not the case and thereby personally making sure to comply with the police does not make it “right” for this to be the norm.

oefrha 6y ago

Except quite some cases do not involve resisting arrest. Take all those swatting cases for example. Good honest people don’t deal with cops on a daily basis, or at all; so when cops suddenly show up with guns drawn while shouting commands (sometimes indistinguishably), they get utterly confused and panic, and naturally may not be able to comply with anything. And it doesn’t matter whether you actually pose a threat; as long as you might be perceived to pose a threat (or maybe not even that), you could end up dead. Holding a phone in your hand? “Looks like a gun to me” — bam, you’re a goner. Can’t see your hands? Bam. During the decade I lived in the States, I often wonder if I would be the next random guy to fall victim to cops. (That, and random mass shootings. Things totally out of my control.) Simply not a fear I ever had to deal with everywhere else I’ve lived or traveled.

optymizer 6y ago

You seem to have a very simplistic view of police, I almost envy you for it. None of what you're saying needs to be a reality. None of it is necessary. > Police are people and they can get scared, angry, and make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes - that doesn't excuse anyone from paying for those mistakes. Some of these mistakes cost lives. Regular folks go to jail. The police in the US, in general, doesn't. Those who do are the exception. Usually - suspension, investigation, acquitted. > When a police officer instructs you to do something just do it. What do you think happens when 'the police' shouts conflicting instructions? The answer is: you get shot [0] What if the police instructs you to do something illegal? What if the police sexually assaults you? [1] > If you disagree with the order there is a mechanism to voice that disagreement called the court. So what you're saying is that if you disagree with a decision the police officer makes in a split second, you should spend the next several years of your life in the court system? When (not if) the police illegally seizes your property, it's OK for you to spend the next few years in the court system to get that property back to be able to return to normal life, right? [2] > they will use rapidly escalating force to make you comply that can endanger your life Why? Is that necessary? The police in other developed countries, for example the UK, is overall orders of magnitude more civilized and respectful than the US police. > This used to be pretty well understood No, what used to be well understood is that the police is there to serve and protect. Serve and protect. The police is not there to intimidate citizens. The police is not there to beat you into obedience. The police is not there to escalate the situation until it results in you losing your life. > I think we need better public communication about this. It's not the public that needs to be better educated on how to handle themselves around the police. It's the police that needs to be better educated on how to handle people. > We also need to make sure the courts are more accomodating to underprivileged communities because if people don't believe the courts are fair then disputes are going to get settled in the street with violence Did you even read the article you're commenting on? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ooa7wOKHhg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ooa7wOKHhg [1] https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/19/us/police-sexual-assaults-maryland-scope/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/19/us/police-sexual-assaults-mar... [2] https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-news/john-oliver-amplifies-the-absurdity-of-civil-forfeitures-191049/ https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-news/john-oliver-amplifie...

dantheman 6y ago

There are more than enough people who want to be police, we can set a very high bar and fire those who don't perform. Police should be de-escalating in all circumstances, they should move slowly and not fire until fire upon. Soldiers have stricter rules of engagement than police.