7 ms·

Seattle to permanently close 20 miles of streets to traffic

71 points by daegloe 6y ago

pdx_flyer 6y ago
Portland is doing something similar: https://beta.portland.gov/eudaly/news/2020/4/28/transportation-commissioner-chloe-eudaly-announces-new-slow-streetssafe https://beta.portland.gov/eudaly/news/2020/4/28/transportati...
intopieces 6y ago
I have previously described Seattle as "car hostile" and this is continuing evidence that this descriptor is apt. Anyone who has been to Seattle recently will probably attest to the serious quality of life improvements these moves create. Next step: soak the hell out of Amazon for public transit. Seriously. They should go fucking nuts.
- avree 6y ago
  Any particular reason why you chose Amazon as the company that should be paying for a public utility for some reason? What about Microsoft, Boeing, University of Washington... what's the criteria by which a company becomes responsible for public works in your mind?
  - y2bd 6y ago
    One potential reason to prefer Amazon over Microsoft and Boeing here is that Amazon is majority in Seattle proper, while the vast majority of Microsoft and Boeing are outside of the city (e.g. Redmond, Bellevue).
    - philwelch 6y ago
      And if the city tries to “soak” Amazon too much, they will move outside of the city, too.
      - intopieces 6y ago
        When has a tech company ever left a city due to taxes? As far as I can tell, sky high taxes haven't impacted the Bay Area one bit.
        philwelch 6y ago
        I don’t think Amazon would leave the Seattle area entirely, just the city limits. And not even SF has imposed the level of taxation Seattle’s local socialist movement keeps trying to impose on Amazon. (NB: I’m not using “socialist” as a slur; Seattle has an actual socialist movement with one council member openly affiliating with the “Socialist Alternative Party”).
        ironmagma 6y ago
        Sure, but Amazon can probably afford it seeing as how they pay $0 in federal income tax unlike a lot of other companies including those in the Bay Area.
        philwelch 6y ago
        Amazon pays $0 in federal income tax because they reinvest all of their profits into their own growth. Most of the tech industry does the same thing. They "can afford" a lot of things, sure. But at some point it won't be cost-effective for them anymore, and I suspect they will reach that point long before the demagogues of Seattle's extreme left reach the limit of how much they want to extract from Amazon's coffers.
        ironmagma 6y ago
        The fact that the Amazon executives are extraordinarily well paid seems to contradict that claim. Besides, saying there is “some point” at which the tax is too much is the same as saying “they don’t have infinite money.” Of course; no company does. Amazon has a limit to what it can pay in taxes, but the point is it’s nowhere near $0.
  - Klonoar 6y ago
    I live smack dab in downtown Seattle, and I can throw a rock from my window and hit an Amazon building. Microsoft and Boeing don't have the same presence in Seattle proper. UW contributes quite a bit to the area for their size. I'll give Amazon kudos for helping keep many businesses down here alive through the pandemic so far, as much as I hate the company. Other than that... they could do more.
  - intopieces 6y ago
    Whenever a company has as much office space in a city as that city's next 40 biggest employers combined. [0] [1]https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/thanks-to-amazon-seattle-is-now-americas-biggest-company-town/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/thanks-to-amazo...
- Twirrim 6y ago
  > Next step: soak the hell out of Amazon for public transit. Seriously. They should go fucking nuts. Can't speak to it recently, but Amazon has repeatedly paid large lump sums to the city for public transport, to expand routes and coverage of where their offices are. They also 100% cover the cost of ORCA cards for employees, which will cost them a pretty penny with the city. If public transport isn't getting enough money out of Amazon to meet needs, they're undercharging Amazon for those cards.
- SamReidHughes 6y ago
  Aren’t there already property taxes? That seems proportionate.
- viburnum 6y ago
  How is seattle car hostile?
  - intopieces 6y ago
    They are actively removing parking spots and downtown driving lanes in favor of rail and just... places for people to sit. It’s incredible.
    - viburnum 6y ago
      I heard they even developed parking lots into places for people to work and live. It’s incredible.
      - intopieces 6y ago
        I'm not sure if this is unique to Seattle but I noticed that they have parking maximums for some new buildings, and they reduced the minimums to 1 spot per 6 units for affordable housing. That's a major step in the right direction.
ajhurliman 6y ago
I'm curious what happens to people who live on the affected streets; do they now have to park a mile away from their house? Or if they were storing a boat on the side of their house, is that boat going to be trapped at their house?
- diag 6y ago
  Residential traffic and related activities are unaffected.
- crote 6y ago
  I do not know what Seattle is going to do, but usually they only close the street for motorized through traffic. If, say, you were to place bollards in the middle of a block, every home will still be reachable by car. But as only residential traffic uses the road, the volume is greatly reduced, making it possible to dedicate space for pedestrians and cyclists. Additionally, the bollards will still allow these to pass, so it can be a through road for cyclists. So, if anything, it is a net positive for the residents.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- floatingatoll 6y ago
  As the article says, “no through traffic”, which does not prohibit reasonable cause to visit and park. It does, however, prohibit use of said road for Waze shortcut routing. I expect to see widespread adoption of “no thru traffic” postings in residential neighborhoods in the next five years to force Waze to route honorably.
Proven 6y ago
Why not? No one needs to work so that concern is out. We stay at home, receive government handouts and use apps to order stuff from Amazon.
throwawaysea 6y ago
The fact that Seattle would close these streets as a “temporary” measure due to the coronavirus, and then change their mind to hastily make the changes permanent, is not okay. This gives residents and constituents no chance to understand the changes, evaluate the impacts, and voice their concerns. When traffic returns to normal, the lack of side streets to travel through is going to exacerbate traffic and worsen travel times on the already overloaded arterials. Most people in Seattle drive, and this is another hostile “war on cars” move that is really just “war on constituents” at this point. It is very unfortunate that the city’s planning and governance is really driven by a loud minority of urbanist activists, while most constituents suffer through these changes.
rdtwo 6y ago
The article overstates the level of closure. These streets are still fully open with grub hub and Uber eats drivers zooming through. They just have been designed mixed use streets so now they see significant more pedestrian and bike traffic. Since Seattle has few sidewalks and many areas it kind of makes sense

71 points by daegloe 6y ago

Portland is doing something similar: https://beta.portland.gov/eudaly/news/2020/4/28/transportation-commissioner-chloe-eudaly-announces-new-slow-streetssafe https://beta.portland.gov/eudaly/news/2020/4/28/transportati...

intopieces 6y ago

I have previously described Seattle as "car hostile" and this is continuing evidence that this descriptor is apt. Anyone who has been to Seattle recently will probably attest to the serious quality of life improvements these moves create. Next step: soak the hell out of Amazon for public transit. Seriously. They should go fucking nuts.

avree 6y ago
Any particular reason why you chose Amazon as the company that should be paying for a public utility for some reason? What about Microsoft, Boeing, University of Washington... what's the criteria by which a company becomes responsible for public works in your mind?
- y2bd 6y ago
  One potential reason to prefer Amazon over Microsoft and Boeing here is that Amazon is majority in Seattle proper, while the vast majority of Microsoft and Boeing are outside of the city (e.g. Redmond, Bellevue).
  - philwelch 6y ago
    And if the city tries to “soak” Amazon too much, they will move outside of the city, too.
    - intopieces 6y ago
      When has a tech company ever left a city due to taxes? As far as I can tell, sky high taxes haven't impacted the Bay Area one bit.
      - philwelch 6y ago
        I don’t think Amazon would leave the Seattle area entirely, just the city limits. And not even SF has imposed the level of taxation Seattle’s local socialist movement keeps trying to impose on Amazon. (NB: I’m not using “socialist” as a slur; Seattle has an actual socialist movement with one council member openly affiliating with the “Socialist Alternative Party”).
        ironmagma 6y ago
        Sure, but Amazon can probably afford it seeing as how they pay $0 in federal income tax unlike a lot of other companies including those in the Bay Area.
        philwelch 6y ago
        Amazon pays $0 in federal income tax because they reinvest all of their profits into their own growth. Most of the tech industry does the same thing. They "can afford" a lot of things, sure. But at some point it won't be cost-effective for them anymore, and I suspect they will reach that point long before the demagogues of Seattle's extreme left reach the limit of how much they want to extract from Amazon's coffers.
        ironmagma 6y ago
        The fact that the Amazon executives are extraordinarily well paid seems to contradict that claim. Besides, saying there is “some point” at which the tax is too much is the same as saying “they don’t have infinite money.” Of course; no company does. Amazon has a limit to what it can pay in taxes, but the point is it’s nowhere near $0.
- Klonoar 6y ago
  I live smack dab in downtown Seattle, and I can throw a rock from my window and hit an Amazon building. Microsoft and Boeing don't have the same presence in Seattle proper. UW contributes quite a bit to the area for their size. I'll give Amazon kudos for helping keep many businesses down here alive through the pandemic so far, as much as I hate the company. Other than that... they could do more.
- intopieces 6y ago
  Whenever a company has as much office space in a city as that city's next 40 biggest employers combined. [0] [1]https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/thanks-to-amazon-seattle-is-now-americas-biggest-company-town/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/thanks-to-amazo...
Twirrim 6y ago
> Next step: soak the hell out of Amazon for public transit. Seriously. They should go fucking nuts. Can't speak to it recently, but Amazon has repeatedly paid large lump sums to the city for public transport, to expand routes and coverage of where their offices are. They also 100% cover the cost of ORCA cards for employees, which will cost them a pretty penny with the city. If public transport isn't getting enough money out of Amazon to meet needs, they're undercharging Amazon for those cards.
SamReidHughes 6y ago
Aren’t there already property taxes? That seems proportionate.
viburnum 6y ago
How is seattle car hostile?
- intopieces 6y ago
  They are actively removing parking spots and downtown driving lanes in favor of rail and just... places for people to sit. It’s incredible.
  - viburnum 6y ago
    I heard they even developed parking lots into places for people to work and live. It’s incredible.
    - intopieces 6y ago
      I'm not sure if this is unique to Seattle but I noticed that they have parking maximums for some new buildings, and they reduced the minimums to 1 spot per 6 units for affordable housing. That's a major step in the right direction.

ajhurliman 6y ago

I'm curious what happens to people who live on the affected streets; do they now have to park a mile away from their house? Or if they were storing a boat on the side of their house, is that boat going to be trapped at their house?

diag 6y ago
Residential traffic and related activities are unaffected.
crote 6y ago
I do not know what Seattle is going to do, but usually they only close the street for motorized through traffic. If, say, you were to place bollards in the middle of a block, every home will still be reachable by car. But as only residential traffic uses the road, the volume is greatly reduced, making it possible to dedicate space for pedestrians and cyclists. Additionally, the bollards will still allow these to pass, so it can be a through road for cyclists. So, if anything, it is a net positive for the residents.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
floatingatoll 6y ago
As the article says, “no through traffic”, which does not prohibit reasonable cause to visit and park. It does, however, prohibit use of said road for Waze shortcut routing. I expect to see widespread adoption of “no thru traffic” postings in residential neighborhoods in the next five years to force Waze to route honorably.

Proven 6y ago

Why not? No one needs to work so that concern is out. We stay at home, receive government handouts and use apps to order stuff from Amazon.

throwawaysea 6y ago

The fact that Seattle would close these streets as a “temporary” measure due to the coronavirus, and then change their mind to hastily make the changes permanent, is not okay. This gives residents and constituents no chance to understand the changes, evaluate the impacts, and voice their concerns. When traffic returns to normal, the lack of side streets to travel through is going to exacerbate traffic and worsen travel times on the already overloaded arterials. Most people in Seattle drive, and this is another hostile “war on cars” move that is really just “war on constituents” at this point. It is very unfortunate that the city’s planning and governance is really driven by a loud minority of urbanist activists, while most constituents suffer through these changes.

rdtwo 6y ago

The article overstates the level of closure. These streets are still fully open with grub hub and Uber eats drivers zooming through. They just have been designed mixed use streets so now they see significant more pedestrian and bike traffic. Since Seattle has few sidewalks and many areas it kind of makes sense