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The mask is not there to protect you. It’s to protect other people from you. The problem is that in order to be effective, everyone must be wearing a mask, an

The mask is not there to protect you. It’s to protect other people from you. The problem is that in order to be effective, everyone must be wearing a mask, and wearing it properly at all times. This includes when they are talking on their cell phones. You’ve seen people pull their mask down, while talking on their phones. Well, these people may be spreading the virus around when they do that.

timr 6y ago
*"The problem is that in order to be effective, everyone must be wearing a mask, and wearing it properly at all times." The problem is that masks are not effective, and the sources I cited demonstrate this.
- eveningcoffee 6y ago
  And yet not all health care workers are infected by SARS-CoV-2 while there are enough stories where a single person has infected large group of partying people without PPE. Besides, it is not important to protect everyone. It is just enough to reduce R0 below 1.
  - DanBC 6y ago
    Healthcare workers are different because: 1) They're trained in correct PPE use 2) They wear a full set of PPE 3) They're supervised when putting it on and taking it off to avoid contaminating themselves 4) They have dedicated areas to don and doff PPE. 5) They use huge amounts of PPE. (A team will use about 30 sets of PPE per ICU patient per day.) 6) They have access to alcohol hand gel (often carrying it on them) 7) They have plentiful and easy access to handwashing facilities - elbow operated faucets, soap, running water. 8) They've been trained in handwashing, and they are regularly audited in handwashing.
    - eveningcoffee 6y ago
      You fail to understand that we do not have to make it 100% secure for everyone (also it fails for healthcare workers time to time) but it would be enough if we can make R0 to become below 1. If a person only puts a mask on while being inside and otherwise wears it under the chin then well, bud luck, not much change to avoid infection but when infected, this person will spread it less likely to somebody else who is handling the mask properly.
      - timr 6y ago
        Rather than arguing why we "fail to understand", you should consider reading some/all of the links I provided to find out why the research supports our position.
        eveningcoffee 6y ago
        I have reviewed it and most of it is questionable. The level of research is - we do not know - more research is needed. Btw. did you realize that the second link you provide supports the opposite conclusion?
        timr 6y ago
        It does not: "On this occasion, we believe public-facing communications regarding the scientific view on the balance of risks and benefits of widespread uptake of face masks have exceeded the scientific evidence base. Efforts to communicate a position so strongly in favour of widespread use of masks in the community, against current WHO advice and in the face of persistent evidence gaps and debates, risk promoting policy that is based more on eminence—the track record, credentials and status of the authors—than on evidence."
        eveningcoffee 6y ago
        Ie. more evidence is needed. Weak. Rest of the discussion actually supports usage of masks.
    - eveningcoffee 6y ago
      Perfect is enemy of good enough in this case. I am not claiming that masks are the only solution. Quite to opposite. The solution is a combination of multiple measures. The most effective has been early social distancing so far.
- blackrock 6y ago
  The evidence is staring at you in the face. The Chinese were able to halt the spread of the virus through combinations of social distancing, physical isolation, lockdowns, and wearing masks in public, whether N95 or KN95. Gloves also help limit the spread, but you have to be aware of not cross-contaminating everything. As well as hand sanitizers. Obviously, wearing the masks alone will not do the job. You need a full spectrum of behavioral changes, in order to halt the spread of the virus. Especially the combination of social distancing, plus masks. And everyone must get educated about it. No excuses! But at this point, you have to question if all this is worth it, as states are opening up prematurely because people want to go to the beaches. Hell, I want to go to the beach too! But the virus containment fight is not over. The 2nd wave is coming, and it’s going to be bad!

timr 6y ago

*"The problem is that in order to be effective, everyone must be wearing a mask, and wearing it properly at all times." The problem is that masks are not effective, and the sources I cited demonstrate this.

eveningcoffee 6y ago
And yet not all health care workers are infected by SARS-CoV-2 while there are enough stories where a single person has infected large group of partying people without PPE. Besides, it is not important to protect everyone. It is just enough to reduce R0 below 1.
- DanBC 6y ago
  Healthcare workers are different because: 1) They're trained in correct PPE use 2) They wear a full set of PPE 3) They're supervised when putting it on and taking it off to avoid contaminating themselves 4) They have dedicated areas to don and doff PPE. 5) They use huge amounts of PPE. (A team will use about 30 sets of PPE per ICU patient per day.) 6) They have access to alcohol hand gel (often carrying it on them) 7) They have plentiful and easy access to handwashing facilities - elbow operated faucets, soap, running water. 8) They've been trained in handwashing, and they are regularly audited in handwashing.
  - eveningcoffee 6y ago
    You fail to understand that we do not have to make it 100% secure for everyone (also it fails for healthcare workers time to time) but it would be enough if we can make R0 to become below 1. If a person only puts a mask on while being inside and otherwise wears it under the chin then well, bud luck, not much change to avoid infection but when infected, this person will spread it less likely to somebody else who is handling the mask properly.
    - timr 6y ago
      Rather than arguing why we "fail to understand", you should consider reading some/all of the links I provided to find out why the research supports our position.
      - eveningcoffee 6y ago
        I have reviewed it and most of it is questionable. The level of research is - we do not know - more research is needed. Btw. did you realize that the second link you provide supports the opposite conclusion?
        timr 6y ago
        It does not: "On this occasion, we believe public-facing communications regarding the scientific view on the balance of risks and benefits of widespread uptake of face masks have exceeded the scientific evidence base. Efforts to communicate a position so strongly in favour of widespread use of masks in the community, against current WHO advice and in the face of persistent evidence gaps and debates, risk promoting policy that is based more on eminence—the track record, credentials and status of the authors—than on evidence."
        eveningcoffee 6y ago
        Ie. more evidence is needed. Weak. Rest of the discussion actually supports usage of masks.
  - eveningcoffee 6y ago
    Perfect is enemy of good enough in this case. I am not claiming that masks are the only solution. Quite to opposite. The solution is a combination of multiple measures. The most effective has been early social distancing so far.
blackrock 6y ago
The evidence is staring at you in the face. The Chinese were able to halt the spread of the virus through combinations of social distancing, physical isolation, lockdowns, and wearing masks in public, whether N95 or KN95. Gloves also help limit the spread, but you have to be aware of not cross-contaminating everything. As well as hand sanitizers. Obviously, wearing the masks alone will not do the job. You need a full spectrum of behavioral changes, in order to halt the spread of the virus. Especially the combination of social distancing, plus masks. And everyone must get educated about it. No excuses! But at this point, you have to question if all this is worth it, as states are opening up prematurely because people want to go to the beaches. Hell, I want to go to the beach too! But the virus containment fight is not over. The 2nd wave is coming, and it’s going to be bad!