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I witnessed something like this when I worked at a Six Flags amusement park (wasn't 6F at the time) that had a decent size water park. They did exit surveys eve

I witnessed something like this when I worked at a Six Flags amusement park (wasn't 6F at the time) that had a decent size water park. They did exit surveys every night, asking as many people as they could if things were ok, and one year they also asked people "Would you pay extra for the water park", it was free as part of admission. So they wanted to know if people would pay extra. People said yes. Something like 90% of people said yes. So, of course, the bosses all thought "hey we can make some extra money and people won't mind!" So fast forward to the next year, they charged the same for people to get in and something like $10 to get into the water park. Something like 101% of people were ANGRY. Not just a little angry, VERY angry. It was a HUGE change that people didn't expect. There were VERY few people that paid. I can't remember if they made it free that year or waited until the next.

RandallBrown 6y ago
A park in Indiana, Holiday World, did something sorta the opposite. They figured out how much the average guest paid for drinks, then raised the ticket prices that much but made all drinks free in the park. It was a huge success. People expect ticket prices to go up occasionally and they expect to be gouged for drinks. By getting "free" drinks, it felt like a huge value. (At least for me when I visited.) I bet it made food sales increase too, because now people wouldn't have to pay for a drink too. Not sure if they're still doing that, but at the time they also had free sunscreen all over the park. It's an amazing little park.
- graywh 6y ago
  They are still doing both.
- save_ferris 6y ago
  Ive been saying for years that airlines should do this. Add the price of an alcoholic beverage to everyone's ticket and then give those who want one a "free" drink. I never understood why they opted to go with ruthless cuts and declining customer experience.
  - socketnaut 6y ago
    Because most people search fares online and book the cheapest ticket.
    - marcosdumay 6y ago
      That actually does not disprove the GP's point. People do this when the price difference is too high, or when they don't know of any difference of value on both options. Currently air travel is a completely homogeneous service. There is basically no difference from one company to the other, so it makes no sense not to go with the cheapest (even then, the flight schedule matters). That is not reason for a company to not differentiate itself. (But I am very skeptical that a free drink would be enough of a difference.)
      - Jommi 6y ago
        >Currently air travel is a completely homogeneous service. There is basically no difference from one company to the other, so it makes no sense not to go with the cheapest Where are you getting this? Tons of airlines provide varying levels of service/amenities. Only thing that is homogeneous is that you get from A to B. I think you are onto something there, but you should have phrased it another way. E.g. I think airlines were caught in a devils agreement with air travel search engines. They gave them access to their flights, and the search engines had to find the simplest qualities to compare fares on. That usually meant price. So you have tons of airlines with no clear value proposition differences in a search result, and it leads to the equilibrium being a devastating fight for lowest price.
        freeone3000 6y ago
        Getting from A to B is the most important service an airline provides. The seats are always cramped, so the degree doesn't matter terribly. Even on their website, I can't search by "flight has power outlets". Nor is the wifi speed available, or even consistent. Maybe the problem is that airlines don't have a value prop relative to each other at all.
- klmadfejno 6y ago
  By what metric was it a success? Drinks, even non alcoholic ones, have phenomenal margins, and if you're stuck in a theme park or sports stadium, for hours, you basically have to purchase one. I'm a bit surprised this makes financial sense unless they really went for it. For similar reasons, restaurants are hurting extra hard right now because people don't order drinks as often with delivery or takeout.
  - monadic2 6y ago
    Well this is based on average visitor, so it certainly makes sense—the revenue is more reliable and they can simplify vendors and improve the quality of life, too. If they were hoping to increase per capita profit year over year without increasing ticket prices, yes, that was a mistake.
  - RandallBrown 6y ago
    It greatly increased guest satisfaction and I would bet it helped their bottom line a little too. There will always be people that stick to free water or don't drink anything. By building the drink price into the ticket price, you're essentially getting everyone to pay for a drink.
    - klmadfejno 6y ago
      > free water This is often not a thing in closed environments like theme parks
      - dahart 6y ago
        Which ones? At least several of the largest theme parks chains do offer free water, you can google it. Many allow bringing refillable bottles. I’d speculate it might be a medical liability issue to not offer tap water to guests in a closed environment summer activity. None of that changes whether it’s profitable or a good idea to give away water or drinks. https://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/200908/1350/ https://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/200908/1350/
  - jedberg 6y ago
- LukeShu 6y ago
  Growing up in Indiana: I don't remember much about different theme parks, but I remember that I'd always end the day dehydrated and thirsty--but not at Holiday World. And regardless of the actual amount of money, as a kid it removed friction from getting a drink, I didn't have to go ask my parents for money. (Just drink for free from the water fountain! Sure, maybe as an adult, but it's definitely easier for kid-me to drink a yummy sugary beverage than water.) And that contributed to having a better time there. And so we went to Holiday World way more often than King's Island, which was almost an hour closer to us (maybe Holiday World was just a better park too, maybe not--like I said, I don't actually remember much about various parks).
  - WorldMaker 6y ago
    I've got my own biases [1], but Kings Island has always been a bigger/better park than Holiday World, but yes that free soft drink package makes a lot of sense on why it would be more appealing to all sorts of families regardless of whether the park is better or not overall. [1] I worked food service at Kings Island for a summer and a half way back in High School.
    - LukeShu 6y ago
      For fun, I asked my mom if she remembers why we went to Holiday World more. She mentioned the free sunscreen (she didn't remember the free soft drinks[1]), and said that Kings Island was too crowded. [1] and I hadn't remembered the free sunscreen until I read the parent post.
- blibble 6y ago
  they save on the staff selling drinks too, at Holiday World the drinks dispensers are littered around the park in the same way water fountains are at others (except six flags where they'll try and gouge you there too)
afterburner 6y ago
Was there something wrong with the way the exit survey was asked/written? Because that is remarkable. Was maybe part of the issue that people leaving when the exit survey was being run (at "night") not representative of the visitors as a whole?
- asdff 6y ago
  Past elections have told us exit polling is a load of horseshit. These are useless metrics.
  - D-Coder 6y ago
    If you are referring to 2016, the national results were pretty accurate. Clinton did win the popular vote. The Electoral College gives slightly more power to small states than they would get under a popular vote, and occasionally that extra power makes a difference.
- blakesterz 6y ago
  Great questions, I wondered how they got it so wrong, I still wonder how they got it so wrong. It never occurred to me it may have been time of day they asked the questions.
  - heavenlyblue 6y ago
    Or people who answer surveys have more money
  - jerf 6y ago
    There's a big difference between spending hypothetical dollars and real dollars, no matter how much you ask people to please try really really hard to pretend they're spending real dollars. It's a recurring element in the recurring "I Tried To Start A SaaS Business And It Crashed And Burned Taking My Will To Live With It" posts on HN... "I asked some people if they'd be willing to buy it and they said yes, were very encouraging, until I asked them to actually buy it."
  - 6y ago

RandallBrown 6y ago

A park in Indiana, Holiday World, did something sorta the opposite. They figured out how much the average guest paid for drinks, then raised the ticket prices that much but made all drinks free in the park. It was a huge success. People expect ticket prices to go up occasionally and they expect to be gouged for drinks. By getting "free" drinks, it felt like a huge value. (At least for me when I visited.) I bet it made food sales increase too, because now people wouldn't have to pay for a drink too. Not sure if they're still doing that, but at the time they also had free sunscreen all over the park. It's an amazing little park.

graywh 6y ago
They are still doing both.
save_ferris 6y ago
Ive been saying for years that airlines should do this. Add the price of an alcoholic beverage to everyone's ticket and then give those who want one a "free" drink. I never understood why they opted to go with ruthless cuts and declining customer experience.
- socketnaut 6y ago
  Because most people search fares online and book the cheapest ticket.
  - marcosdumay 6y ago
    That actually does not disprove the GP's point. People do this when the price difference is too high, or when they don't know of any difference of value on both options. Currently air travel is a completely homogeneous service. There is basically no difference from one company to the other, so it makes no sense not to go with the cheapest (even then, the flight schedule matters). That is not reason for a company to not differentiate itself. (But I am very skeptical that a free drink would be enough of a difference.)
    - Jommi 6y ago
      >Currently air travel is a completely homogeneous service. There is basically no difference from one company to the other, so it makes no sense not to go with the cheapest Where are you getting this? Tons of airlines provide varying levels of service/amenities. Only thing that is homogeneous is that you get from A to B. I think you are onto something there, but you should have phrased it another way. E.g. I think airlines were caught in a devils agreement with air travel search engines. They gave them access to their flights, and the search engines had to find the simplest qualities to compare fares on. That usually meant price. So you have tons of airlines with no clear value proposition differences in a search result, and it leads to the equilibrium being a devastating fight for lowest price.
      - freeone3000 6y ago
        Getting from A to B is the most important service an airline provides. The seats are always cramped, so the degree doesn't matter terribly. Even on their website, I can't search by "flight has power outlets". Nor is the wifi speed available, or even consistent. Maybe the problem is that airlines don't have a value prop relative to each other at all.
klmadfejno 6y ago
By what metric was it a success? Drinks, even non alcoholic ones, have phenomenal margins, and if you're stuck in a theme park or sports stadium, for hours, you basically have to purchase one. I'm a bit surprised this makes financial sense unless they really went for it. For similar reasons, restaurants are hurting extra hard right now because people don't order drinks as often with delivery or takeout.
- monadic2 6y ago
  Well this is based on average visitor, so it certainly makes sense—the revenue is more reliable and they can simplify vendors and improve the quality of life, too. If they were hoping to increase per capita profit year over year without increasing ticket prices, yes, that was a mistake.
- RandallBrown 6y ago
  It greatly increased guest satisfaction and I would bet it helped their bottom line a little too. There will always be people that stick to free water or don't drink anything. By building the drink price into the ticket price, you're essentially getting everyone to pay for a drink.
  - klmadfejno 6y ago
    > free water This is often not a thing in closed environments like theme parks
    - dahart 6y ago
      Which ones? At least several of the largest theme parks chains do offer free water, you can google it. Many allow bringing refillable bottles. I’d speculate it might be a medical liability issue to not offer tap water to guests in a closed environment summer activity. None of that changes whether it’s profitable or a good idea to give away water or drinks. https://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/200908/1350/ https://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/200908/1350/
- jedberg 6y ago
LukeShu 6y ago
Growing up in Indiana: I don't remember much about different theme parks, but I remember that I'd always end the day dehydrated and thirsty--but not at Holiday World. And regardless of the actual amount of money, as a kid it removed friction from getting a drink, I didn't have to go ask my parents for money. (Just drink for free from the water fountain! Sure, maybe as an adult, but it's definitely easier for kid-me to drink a yummy sugary beverage than water.) And that contributed to having a better time there. And so we went to Holiday World way more often than King's Island, which was almost an hour closer to us (maybe Holiday World was just a better park too, maybe not--like I said, I don't actually remember much about various parks).
- WorldMaker 6y ago
  I've got my own biases [1], but Kings Island has always been a bigger/better park than Holiday World, but yes that free soft drink package makes a lot of sense on why it would be more appealing to all sorts of families regardless of whether the park is better or not overall. [1] I worked food service at Kings Island for a summer and a half way back in High School.
  - LukeShu 6y ago
    For fun, I asked my mom if she remembers why we went to Holiday World more. She mentioned the free sunscreen (she didn't remember the free soft drinks[1]), and said that Kings Island was too crowded. [1] and I hadn't remembered the free sunscreen until I read the parent post.
blibble 6y ago
they save on the staff selling drinks too, at Holiday World the drinks dispensers are littered around the park in the same way water fountains are at others (except six flags where they'll try and gouge you there too)

afterburner 6y ago

Was there something wrong with the way the exit survey was asked/written? Because that is remarkable. Was maybe part of the issue that people leaving when the exit survey was being run (at "night") not representative of the visitors as a whole?

asdff 6y ago
Past elections have told us exit polling is a load of horseshit. These are useless metrics.
- D-Coder 6y ago
  If you are referring to 2016, the national results were pretty accurate. Clinton did win the popular vote. The Electoral College gives slightly more power to small states than they would get under a popular vote, and occasionally that extra power makes a difference.
blakesterz 6y ago
Great questions, I wondered how they got it so wrong, I still wonder how they got it so wrong. It never occurred to me it may have been time of day they asked the questions.
- heavenlyblue 6y ago
  Or people who answer surveys have more money
- jerf 6y ago
  There's a big difference between spending hypothetical dollars and real dollars, no matter how much you ask people to please try really really hard to pretend they're spending real dollars. It's a recurring element in the recurring "I Tried To Start A SaaS Business And It Crashed And Burned Taking My Will To Live With It" posts on HN... "I asked some people if they'd be willing to buy it and they said yes, were very encouraging, until I asked them to actually buy it."
- 6y ago