42 ms·

Trump could order a nation wide shutdown if he wanted to.

by sjg007 7y ago

nradov 7y ago
Such an order wouldn't be legally binding outside of federally controlled facilities (and perhaps air and sea ports). For better or worse, US states remain sovereign entities.
- rbanffy 7y ago
  While that's true, a presidential recommendation for something, based on sound reasoning and solid evidence, backed by experts, would be very convincing.
  - krapp 7y ago
    >a presidential recommendation for something, based on sound reasoning and solid evidence, backed by experts, would be very convincing. I'm going to catch hell for this because "politics" but ... we're talking about Trump, here. A man who just recently had to walk back a suggestion that doctors look into injecting cleaning solvents as a possible treatment for COVID-19 as "just sarcasm."
    - rbanffy 7y ago
      Indeed. I don't see how he'd make a recommendation based on sound reasoning and solid evidence and backed by experts. His recommendations are polar opposite of this. As for hell, welcome to the club.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    In the post-Gingrich hyper-partisan environment, the best thing for any President to do is not make a recommendation, and to leave it to the experts to present theirs and stay out of their way. If the experts make a non-political recommendation, it has a chance of being accepted by everyone. If the president makes a recommendation, it immediately becomes political and Fox news will either hype the hell out of it (if the president is a Republican) or go to war against it (if the president is a Democrat).
    - rbanffy 7y ago
      I don't like the way this story ends. The US needs a plot twist.
    - dllthomas 7y ago
      I have a (joking) theory that Trump's initial lack of action was a calculated ploy to make sure the denser, blue states decided COVID was urgent.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > Such an order wouldn't be legally binding outside of federally controlled facilities The executive branch has broad quarantine authorities when it determines such measures are necessary to control communicable disease under the Public Health Service Act, and they have been applied with mandatory force outside of federally controlled facilities (mostly in regard to international travelers) in the COVID-19 emergency.
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
Unless he declared martial law, I don't think he has the authority to do so. If you do think he has the authority to do so, what do you think the legal basis is for that authority?
- throwaway_USD 7y ago
  Whether it is for the opening or closing of the States the federal government would have the constitutional powers to make those orders. States have the primary authority but essentially at anytime the Federal government could invoke the Commerce Clause. From an American Bar Association (ABA) article from April 2020: >Through the Commerce Clause, which gives Congress exclusive authority to regulate interstate and foreign commerce, the federal government has broad authority to quarantine and impose other health measures to prevent the spread of diseases from foreign countries, as well as between states although that has never been affirmed by the courts. >In 1902, the Supreme Court directly addressed a state’s power to quarantine an entire geographical area. In Compagnie Francaise de Navigation a Vapeur v. Louisiana State Board of Health, the justices upheld a Louisiana Supreme Court decision that the state could enact and enforce quarantine laws unless Congress had decided to preempt them. https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/publications/youraba/2020/youraba-april-2020/law-guides-legal-approach-to-pandemic/ https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/publications/yourab...
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
    Between the states. So the President could, for example, close the border between Georgia and South Carolina. But he couldn't, for example, close Georgia internally.
    - throwaway_USD 7y ago
      Well that is how the law reads, but its not how it is applied. Put it this way the federal government uses the commerce clause to regulate everything from farmers growing marijuana; farmer feeding their live stock excess crops they grew; restaurants from discriminating against diners on race; etc... There is no shortage of case law over 200 years showing how States rights have all but completely eroded to the Federal Government through the commerce clause...you don't see many farms or restaurants crossing state boarders but federal government can regulate them on the basis of effecting interstate commerce.
crispyambulance 7y ago
> Trump could order a nation wide shutdown if he wanted to. People are getting lost in the weeds about whether or who has authority to do what. I think that's less important. What matters more is cooperation between Federal, State and local. Instead of having those ENDLESS insane ad-libbed monologues at the "daily briefing", a true leader would have been too busy working non-stop with state, key city officials, disease experts, and those who can handle logistics. He could have left the daily briefing to competent spokespeople (I know that's laughable, but imagine any other administration).

Trump could order a nation wide shutdown if he wanted to.

by sjg007 7y ago

Trump could order a nation wide shutdown if he wanted to.

Such an order wouldn't be legally binding outside of federally controlled facilities (and perhaps air and sea ports). For better or worse, US states remain sovereign entities.

rbanffy 7y ago
While that's true, a presidential recommendation for something, based on sound reasoning and solid evidence, backed by experts, would be very convincing.
- krapp 7y ago
  >a presidential recommendation for something, based on sound reasoning and solid evidence, backed by experts, would be very convincing. I'm going to catch hell for this because "politics" but ... we're talking about Trump, here. A man who just recently had to walk back a suggestion that doctors look into injecting cleaning solvents as a possible treatment for COVID-19 as "just sarcasm."
  - rbanffy 7y ago
    Indeed. I don't see how he'd make a recommendation based on sound reasoning and solid evidence and backed by experts. His recommendations are polar opposite of this. As for hell, welcome to the club.
- gamblor956 7y ago
  In the post-Gingrich hyper-partisan environment, the best thing for any President to do is not make a recommendation, and to leave it to the experts to present theirs and stay out of their way. If the experts make a non-political recommendation, it has a chance of being accepted by everyone. If the president makes a recommendation, it immediately becomes political and Fox news will either hype the hell out of it (if the president is a Republican) or go to war against it (if the president is a Democrat).
  - rbanffy 7y ago
    I don't like the way this story ends. The US needs a plot twist.
  - dllthomas 7y ago
    I have a (joking) theory that Trump's initial lack of action was a calculated ploy to make sure the denser, blue states decided COVID was urgent.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> Such an order wouldn't be legally binding outside of federally controlled facilities The executive branch has broad quarantine authorities when it determines such measures are necessary to control communicable disease under the Public Health Service Act, and they have been applied with mandatory force outside of federally controlled facilities (mostly in regard to international travelers) in the COVID-19 emergency.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

Unless he declared martial law, I don't think he has the authority to do so. If you do think he has the authority to do so, what do you think the legal basis is for that authority?

throwaway_USD 7y ago
Whether it is for the opening or closing of the States the federal government would have the constitutional powers to make those orders. States have the primary authority but essentially at anytime the Federal government could invoke the Commerce Clause. From an American Bar Association (ABA) article from April 2020: >Through the Commerce Clause, which gives Congress exclusive authority to regulate interstate and foreign commerce, the federal government has broad authority to quarantine and impose other health measures to prevent the spread of diseases from foreign countries, as well as between states although that has never been affirmed by the courts. >In 1902, the Supreme Court directly addressed a state’s power to quarantine an entire geographical area. In Compagnie Francaise de Navigation a Vapeur v. Louisiana State Board of Health, the justices upheld a Louisiana Supreme Court decision that the state could enact and enforce quarantine laws unless Congress had decided to preempt them. https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/publications/youraba/2020/youraba-april-2020/law-guides-legal-approach-to-pandemic/ https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/publications/yourab...
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  Between the states. So the President could, for example, close the border between Georgia and South Carolina. But he couldn't, for example, close Georgia internally.
  - throwaway_USD 7y ago
    Well that is how the law reads, but its not how it is applied. Put it this way the federal government uses the commerce clause to regulate everything from farmers growing marijuana; farmer feeding their live stock excess crops they grew; restaurants from discriminating against diners on race; etc... There is no shortage of case law over 200 years showing how States rights have all but completely eroded to the Federal Government through the commerce clause...you don't see many farms or restaurants crossing state boarders but federal government can regulate them on the basis of effecting interstate commerce.

crispyambulance 7y ago

> Trump could order a nation wide shutdown if he wanted to. People are getting lost in the weeds about whether or who has authority to do what. I think that's less important. What matters more is cooperation between Federal, State and local. Instead of having those ENDLESS insane ad-libbed monologues at the "daily briefing", a true leader would have been too busy working non-stop with state, key city officials, disease experts, and those who can handle logistics. He could have left the daily briefing to competent spokespeople (I know that's laughable, but imagine any other administration).