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> Even in areas where they are opening up, people aren’t in any hurry to travel unnecessarily, be in crowds, go to restaurants, etc. Covid’s effect on the econo

> Even in areas where they are opening up, people aren’t in any hurry to travel unnecessarily, be in crowds, go to restaurants, etc. Covid’s effect on the economy is going to devastating no matter what the official policy is. Interesting that you have changed the topic. This is indicative of a broad problem that I am observing: nobody wants to discuss economic consequences and even mentioning this will result in either very heavy down-voting or outright deplatforming[1]. My question is rather specific to how long the economy can last while held in lockdown and whether the Times has ever reported such concerns. The economy does things like bring us food and pay for the health care that is supposed to save us from the virus. Without the economy, we don't have food and we don't have health care. If some percentage of the population is actively blocked from having jobs while having no income, no government subsidies, and no savings, then "civil unrest" becomes reality. This is historically true. [1] If you think that discussion of the economy is somehow a hidden message about 5G, anti-vaxx, NWO, etc., then you really need to take some time to learn economics, and I would also suggest some critical thinking, philosophy, and reading comprehension review.

wcarey 6y ago
The do have several articles of the sort you're interested in: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/business/economy/coronavirus-economy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/business/economy/coronavi... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/business/coronavirus-economy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/business/coronavirus-econ... are two examples.
- generalpass 6y ago
  These seem to be general discussions about the state of the economy. They still are not making an attempt to forecast how long the economy can minimally support civilization without reopening. I don't see a "what is worse" analysis. I also don't see any mention of the myriad studies published demonstrating how mortality rates increase in many different ways during periods of economic decline.
mellow2020 6y ago
> If you think that discussion of the economy is somehow a hidden message about 5G, anti-vaxx, NWO I suspect that's exactly the mechanism, which someone described very well here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23081538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23081538
take_a_breath 6y ago
== nobody wants to discuss economic consequences and even mentioning this will result in either very heavy down-voting or outright deplatforming[1].== This is a false and a simple google search would have proved it (as another poster did). It sounds like you have a predetermined bias. Maybe take your own advice on some of the suggestions you have for other people? Mentioning how the economy provides healthcare and food kind of undermines your point as those things were never shut down.
- generalpass 6y ago
  > Mentioning how the economy provides healthcare and food kind of undermines your point as those things were never shut down. This perfectly demonstrates my point.
  - take_a_breath 6y ago
    Please expand.
    - generalpass 6y ago
      > Please expand. Those things cannot make up the entire economy because people end up starving to death. Thus, at some point there is no other option but to reopen. It is notable how you reinterpret my comment: > The economy does things like bring us food and pay for the health care that is supposed to save us from the virus. Without the economy, we don't have food and we don't have health care. You also seem to ignore other parts: > If some percentage of the population is actively blocked from having jobs while having no income, no government subsidies, and no savings, then "civil unrest" becomes reality. This is historically true.
      - take_a_breath 6y ago
        I’m not following your line of thought. Nobody claimed they made up the entire economy, and they don’t right now even amidst a multi-state stay-at-home order. So, I’m not sure what you are arguing against. There are essential parts of the economy and non-essential parts of the economy and they can certainly exist without each other. In fact, they did when society’s first formed. Then, they focused on a different level of the hierarchy of needs but it was still an economy. Food was produced and houses were built before cars, cell phones, and video streaming ever existed. I skipped the last part because while it is true that those things lead to “civil unrest”, you haven’t proved that we meet your own conditionals. What is “some percentage”? What is “actively blocked”? For example, I see government subsidies all over the place. To the tune of $2 trillion so far with almost certainly more to come.
Throwawayaerlei 6y ago
And you've been downvoted in the last 10 minutes since I first went to this discussion. You'll find plenty of discussion of economic issues on right of center forums, with the same sort of downvoting for concerns about opening up resulting in too many cases for healthcare systems to handle. Ditto that it may be wise to limit the total number of people who get it prior to our finding out if we can develop a vaccine for it.
oefrha 6y ago
> This is indicative of a broad problem that I am observing: nobody wants to discuss economic consequences and even mentioning this will result in either very heavy down-voting or outright deplatforming[1]. Wat? https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=true&query=Economy%20&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=tr... No shortage of threads centered around lockdown economy. Not to mention guerrilla subthreads.
- mellow2020 6y ago
  the most recent one is, "The cost of reopening the economy, in lives", then there is a bunch of stuff that is not relevant and just happens to have the word "economy" in it, in the topic "Covid-19: Impact on business sectors and the economy" there is very little discussion about the economy, people muse about virsuses instead. The only recent other one that doesn't flat out have 0 comments is "Stocks Are Recovering While the Economy Collapses". Great. I can see why any comment of a person asking to discuss this should be met with so many downvotes they'll get throttled, while everybody else demonstrates their ongoing inability to discuss it, pointing at non-discussions as proof it's been discussed so extensively. 9 days ago, "71 Percent of jobless Americans did not recieve their March unemployment benefit" received 24 comments. Twentyfour! Oh well, I guess the meat is in all those "guerilla subthreads" then.
  - watwut 6y ago
    List of economy and covid related threads, excluding articles that apparetnly criticise opening * U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession * Coronavirus-afflicted global economy is almost certainly in recession * Bolsonaro fires health minister, calls to reopen economy * Covid-19: Impact on business sectors and the economy * Germany's Covid-19 expert: 'For many, I'm the evil guy crippling the economy' * US factory orders plunge 14.4% as economy grinds to halt * US GDP shrank 4.8% in Q1 as the coronavirus dragged the economy into recession * JPMorgan-economy contracting by 40% in second quarter, unemployment reaching 20% * Coronavirus Ravages China’s Economy–and It’s Just Getting Started * Trump faces 'biggest decision' on re-opening economy * Ray Dalio: What coronavirus means for the global economy * To save the US economy, policymakers need to understand small business 101
scarface74 6y ago
I’m saying worrying about “policy” when it comes to the economics is missing the forest for the trees. Even if everything opened up tomorrow, people aren’t going to spend money in large swaths of the market. It’s not open up and they will come.

wcarey 6y ago

The do have several articles of the sort you're interested in: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/business/economy/coronavirus-economy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/business/economy/coronavi... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/business/coronavirus-economy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/business/coronavirus-econ... are two examples.

generalpass 6y ago
These seem to be general discussions about the state of the economy. They still are not making an attempt to forecast how long the economy can minimally support civilization without reopening. I don't see a "what is worse" analysis. I also don't see any mention of the myriad studies published demonstrating how mortality rates increase in many different ways during periods of economic decline.

mellow2020 6y ago

> If you think that discussion of the economy is somehow a hidden message about 5G, anti-vaxx, NWO I suspect that's exactly the mechanism, which someone described very well here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23081538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23081538

take_a_breath 6y ago

== nobody wants to discuss economic consequences and even mentioning this will result in either very heavy down-voting or outright deplatforming[1].== This is a false and a simple google search would have proved it (as another poster did). It sounds like you have a predetermined bias. Maybe take your own advice on some of the suggestions you have for other people? Mentioning how the economy provides healthcare and food kind of undermines your point as those things were never shut down.

generalpass 6y ago
> Mentioning how the economy provides healthcare and food kind of undermines your point as those things were never shut down. This perfectly demonstrates my point.
- take_a_breath 6y ago
  Please expand.
  - generalpass 6y ago
    > Please expand. Those things cannot make up the entire economy because people end up starving to death. Thus, at some point there is no other option but to reopen. It is notable how you reinterpret my comment: > The economy does things like bring us food and pay for the health care that is supposed to save us from the virus. Without the economy, we don't have food and we don't have health care. You also seem to ignore other parts: > If some percentage of the population is actively blocked from having jobs while having no income, no government subsidies, and no savings, then "civil unrest" becomes reality. This is historically true.
    - take_a_breath 6y ago
      I’m not following your line of thought. Nobody claimed they made up the entire economy, and they don’t right now even amidst a multi-state stay-at-home order. So, I’m not sure what you are arguing against. There are essential parts of the economy and non-essential parts of the economy and they can certainly exist without each other. In fact, they did when society’s first formed. Then, they focused on a different level of the hierarchy of needs but it was still an economy. Food was produced and houses were built before cars, cell phones, and video streaming ever existed. I skipped the last part because while it is true that those things lead to “civil unrest”, you haven’t proved that we meet your own conditionals. What is “some percentage”? What is “actively blocked”? For example, I see government subsidies all over the place. To the tune of $2 trillion so far with almost certainly more to come.

Throwawayaerlei 6y ago

And you've been downvoted in the last 10 minutes since I first went to this discussion. You'll find plenty of discussion of economic issues on right of center forums, with the same sort of downvoting for concerns about opening up resulting in too many cases for healthcare systems to handle. Ditto that it may be wise to limit the total number of people who get it prior to our finding out if we can develop a vaccine for it.

oefrha 6y ago

> This is indicative of a broad problem that I am observing: nobody wants to discuss economic consequences and even mentioning this will result in either very heavy down-voting or outright deplatforming[1]. Wat? https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=true&query=Economy%20&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=tr... No shortage of threads centered around lockdown economy. Not to mention guerrilla subthreads.

mellow2020 6y ago
the most recent one is, "The cost of reopening the economy, in lives", then there is a bunch of stuff that is not relevant and just happens to have the word "economy" in it, in the topic "Covid-19: Impact on business sectors and the economy" there is very little discussion about the economy, people muse about virsuses instead. The only recent other one that doesn't flat out have 0 comments is "Stocks Are Recovering While the Economy Collapses". Great. I can see why any comment of a person asking to discuss this should be met with so many downvotes they'll get throttled, while everybody else demonstrates their ongoing inability to discuss it, pointing at non-discussions as proof it's been discussed so extensively. 9 days ago, "71 Percent of jobless Americans did not recieve their March unemployment benefit" received 24 comments. Twentyfour! Oh well, I guess the meat is in all those "guerilla subthreads" then.
- watwut 6y ago
  List of economy and covid related threads, excluding articles that apparetnly criticise opening * U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession * Coronavirus-afflicted global economy is almost certainly in recession * Bolsonaro fires health minister, calls to reopen economy * Covid-19: Impact on business sectors and the economy * Germany's Covid-19 expert: 'For many, I'm the evil guy crippling the economy' * US factory orders plunge 14.4% as economy grinds to halt * US GDP shrank 4.8% in Q1 as the coronavirus dragged the economy into recession * JPMorgan-economy contracting by 40% in second quarter, unemployment reaching 20% * Coronavirus Ravages China’s Economy–and It’s Just Getting Started * Trump faces 'biggest decision' on re-opening economy * Ray Dalio: What coronavirus means for the global economy * To save the US economy, policymakers need to understand small business 101

scarface74 6y ago

I’m saying worrying about “policy” when it comes to the economics is missing the forest for the trees. Even if everything opened up tomorrow, people aren’t going to spend money in large swaths of the market. It’s not open up and they will come.