4 ms·

I hear this claim often enough, but never seen related studies. Is getting hired in Germany more difficult, compared to the USA? And if so, can you attribute t

by kharak 6y ago

I hear this claim often enough, but never seen related studies. Is getting hired in Germany more difficult, compared to the USA? And if so, can you attribute that to employee benefits?

CamperBob2 6y ago
Is there a reason why risky, innovative startups tend to be formed here in the US, and not in Germany? You guys act like there's no downside to cradle-to-grave nannying of the labor force. There is.
- kharak 6y ago
  Correlation and causation. If you claim that lesser employee protection causes more innovation, proof it. So far, this is merely a believe.
  - manigandham 6y ago
    The proof are the many valuable American companies making world-changing products used globally and constantly copied by many other nations with their own domestic clones.
    - kharak 6y ago
      That is not a proof for the question. You seem invested in your believes and either don't know or care about scientific evidence to back them up. There is nothing more to gain here, have a good day.
      - manigandham 6y ago
        Valuations, revenues, and revolutionary products are quite real. What would be proof of the contrary? What form of proof are you even looking for?
        kharak 6y ago
        What is missing is a causal link between lesser employee rights and those values. I could claim that the historic position of the USA after WW2 caused all of these. My claim would be as baseless as yours. A good starting point for research, but nothing more.
  - CamperBob2 6y ago
    Are you sure the burden of proof isn't yours? You're making an unlikely claim, if not an extraordinary one. If I shoot someone and they fall down dead, is "b....b....but correlation isn't causation!" a valid defense?
    - kharak 6y ago
      I think that just speaks volumes of your cultural bias. For me, it is quit natural to assume that a base level of employee protection causes innovation. And Germany would be a good example, as there are quit some innovative small to medium sized companies. The only thing lacking is tech unicorns and there are all sorts of reasons for this.
- disgruntledphd2 6y ago
  Cost and availability of capital, rather than anything else. Like, if you are a PM at FAANG you can probably get a seed round for any kind of nonsense in SF, but in Germany you would need far more proof and preferably revenue (I don't know Germany that well, but it's similar across much of Western Europe).
  - manigandham 6y ago
    Why is there most capital available in America? Why would investors choose to go there if businesses were not easier to start, grow and exit?
    - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
      Because the dollar is the world reserve currency, and lots and lots of large pension funds, university endowments and family offices spend tiny proportions of their assets on VC (as it's expected to be uncorrelated with market returns). VC's tend to be look a person in the eye and judge his (almost always) character. They don't like travelling, so most of their investments are made in the Bay Area. Coupled to this, there's much more availability of angel funding because of the previous unicorns (paypal, eBay, Google, Facebook et al) so it's easier to get started. There are definitely some cultural issues at play also, but fundamentally the reason that the US has such a high proportion of tech giants (which seems to be what you're focusing on) is the low cost of capital caused by the dollar's exorbitant privilege.
      - manigandham 6y ago
        You realize other countries have VCs too right? Yet hundreds of foreign billions still go to America because it's a better environment for innovation and produces bigger and more impactful companies. Your 3rd point even relies on it.
        disgruntledphd2 6y ago
        Venture capital by selected countries: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1071105/value-of-investments-by-venture-capital-worldwide-by-key-market/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1071105/value-of-investm... Note that it's per capita, and Israel has a population of 8mn, versus the US's 330mn. I think it's pretty clear that most VC funding is given in the USA. And note that the terms are often much better, and funding is accessible earlier. This article explicity states that you want to get seed funding in the US if you want to maximise your valuation. See: https://medium.com/sosv-accelerator-vc/what-does-seed-funding-look-like-across-the-world-86f3ebe9cf0a https://medium.com/sosv-accelerator-vc/what-does-seed-fundin...

by kharak 6y ago

I hear this claim often enough, but never seen related studies. Is getting hired in Germany more difficult, compared to the USA? And if so, can you attribute that to employee benefits?

CamperBob2 6y ago

Is there a reason why risky, innovative startups tend to be formed here in the US, and not in Germany? You guys act like there's no downside to cradle-to-grave nannying of the labor force. There is.

kharak 6y ago
Correlation and causation. If you claim that lesser employee protection causes more innovation, proof it. So far, this is merely a believe.
- manigandham 6y ago
  The proof are the many valuable American companies making world-changing products used globally and constantly copied by many other nations with their own domestic clones.
  - kharak 6y ago
    That is not a proof for the question. You seem invested in your believes and either don't know or care about scientific evidence to back them up. There is nothing more to gain here, have a good day.
    - manigandham 6y ago
      Valuations, revenues, and revolutionary products are quite real. What would be proof of the contrary? What form of proof are you even looking for?
      - kharak 6y ago
        What is missing is a causal link between lesser employee rights and those values. I could claim that the historic position of the USA after WW2 caused all of these. My claim would be as baseless as yours. A good starting point for research, but nothing more.
- CamperBob2 6y ago
  Are you sure the burden of proof isn't yours? You're making an unlikely claim, if not an extraordinary one. If I shoot someone and they fall down dead, is "b....b....but correlation isn't causation!" a valid defense?
  - kharak 6y ago
    I think that just speaks volumes of your cultural bias. For me, it is quit natural to assume that a base level of employee protection causes innovation. And Germany would be a good example, as there are quit some innovative small to medium sized companies. The only thing lacking is tech unicorns and there are all sorts of reasons for this.
disgruntledphd2 6y ago
Cost and availability of capital, rather than anything else. Like, if you are a PM at FAANG you can probably get a seed round for any kind of nonsense in SF, but in Germany you would need far more proof and preferably revenue (I don't know Germany that well, but it's similar across much of Western Europe).
- manigandham 6y ago
  Why is there most capital available in America? Why would investors choose to go there if businesses were not easier to start, grow and exit?
  - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
    Because the dollar is the world reserve currency, and lots and lots of large pension funds, university endowments and family offices spend tiny proportions of their assets on VC (as it's expected to be uncorrelated with market returns). VC's tend to be look a person in the eye and judge his (almost always) character. They don't like travelling, so most of their investments are made in the Bay Area. Coupled to this, there's much more availability of angel funding because of the previous unicorns (paypal, eBay, Google, Facebook et al) so it's easier to get started. There are definitely some cultural issues at play also, but fundamentally the reason that the US has such a high proportion of tech giants (which seems to be what you're focusing on) is the low cost of capital caused by the dollar's exorbitant privilege.
    - manigandham 6y ago
      You realize other countries have VCs too right? Yet hundreds of foreign billions still go to America because it's a better environment for innovation and produces bigger and more impactful companies. Your 3rd point even relies on it.
      - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
        Venture capital by selected countries: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1071105/value-of-investments-by-venture-capital-worldwide-by-key-market/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1071105/value-of-investm... Note that it's per capita, and Israel has a population of 8mn, versus the US's 330mn. I think it's pretty clear that most VC funding is given in the USA. And note that the terms are often much better, and funding is accessible earlier. This article explicity states that you want to get seed funding in the US if you want to maximise your valuation. See: https://medium.com/sosv-accelerator-vc/what-does-seed-funding-look-like-across-the-world-86f3ebe9cf0a https://medium.com/sosv-accelerator-vc/what-does-seed-fundin...