4 ms·

I genuinely don't understand some decisions Microsoft has made with Windows 10. The unavoidable telemetry / updates / ads, this Python thing, etc. are just so d

I genuinely don't understand some decisions Microsoft has made with Windows 10. The unavoidable telemetry / updates / ads, this Python thing, etc. are just so different from what I want an OS to do. I can only assume that I'm somehow outside of Microsoft's target market and just don't realize it. But is there really a sizable fraction of computer users that want an OS to unavoidable behave like this?

Animats 6y ago
Yes. My last Windows machine just died, and I'm migrating the last few Windows things to Linux. Have to use Wine once in a while. I don't plan to replace the Windows machine. It's so unnecessary today.
- simonebrunozzi 6y ago
  I've tried to do this multiple times, and yet I have always kept either a Windows machine or (more often) a Mac for a bunch of things. (e.g. Keynote; Outlook in a corporate environment; etc) I loved it in the past, but now I simply don't have time or willingness to spend hours to configure drivers, etc, or do my own system maintenance. My dream is a laptop with a solid linux distro, maintained by a company that doesn't die too easily, with a 3-5 year maintenance guarantee (kind of Ubuntu LTS, as a concept, but for laptop use, not server), where everything works, including a (possibly amazing) trackpad. The other thing is: Mac's trackpads are absolutely the best in the market. That single item is responsible for a big chunk of my productivity boost. When I use a non-Apple trackpad on another laptop, I feel my productivity goes down significantly. I guess twenty years ago it was being able to use vim and bash properly :) - but not today, not anymore, for me at least. Anyway, all of this to ask: what laptop are you using to run Linux? Edit: forgot to add that I've been looking at System76 and Pop OS, but somehow they failed to convince me (together, or separately).
  - Animats 6y ago
    Laptop? I use a desktop machine. Better ergonomics and a much larger screen.
    - simonebrunozzi 6y ago
      Got it.
throwawaysea 6y ago
Yes they are definitely overstepping their bounds. It feels less and less like an OS a power user can rely on. Unfortunately Mac OS is so opinionated it might be worse. But Linux doesn’t have the same ecosystem for games and streaming doesn’t work for some services. It seems there is no harbor from the storm these days...
- akll100 6y ago
  Nadella IT cells are downvoting heresy again. But I must be wrong, since the HN guidelines say this never happens.
solarkraft 6y ago
> I can only assume that I'm somehow outside of Microsoft's target market and just don't realize it. If you care about stuff like this you are not inside the target group. > But is there really a sizable fraction of computer users that want an OS to unavoidable behave like this? Nobody wants telemetry specifically, but it indirectly (provided somebody smart is receiving it, which is arguable in MS's case) benefits the average user by detecting their preferences and issues. Updates are easy to argue for. Barely anobody will update their system on their own because they just don't understand the security implications. The people who understand them will probably all agree that getting people up to date quickly is important (you could argue better education could make a difference here, but that is so much effort, would hassle the user more and wouldn't reach everyone). Ads are harder to argue for, but you could argue for them as a valid method of financing an otherwise free system (it was always a relatively transparent MS strategy to do this). ... But even without ads Windows is something I have a hard time tolerating in general. The version I use at work has most of the explicitly user-hostile things disabled and is still plenty infuriating.
tim333 6y ago
I think the "unavoidable telemetry / updates / ads" are more about making money for msft than what the users want. Dunno with the Python thing - maybe just a screw up?

Animats 6y ago

Yes. My last Windows machine just died, and I'm migrating the last few Windows things to Linux. Have to use Wine once in a while. I don't plan to replace the Windows machine. It's so unnecessary today.

simonebrunozzi 6y ago
I've tried to do this multiple times, and yet I have always kept either a Windows machine or (more often) a Mac for a bunch of things. (e.g. Keynote; Outlook in a corporate environment; etc) I loved it in the past, but now I simply don't have time or willingness to spend hours to configure drivers, etc, or do my own system maintenance. My dream is a laptop with a solid linux distro, maintained by a company that doesn't die too easily, with a 3-5 year maintenance guarantee (kind of Ubuntu LTS, as a concept, but for laptop use, not server), where everything works, including a (possibly amazing) trackpad. The other thing is: Mac's trackpads are absolutely the best in the market. That single item is responsible for a big chunk of my productivity boost. When I use a non-Apple trackpad on another laptop, I feel my productivity goes down significantly. I guess twenty years ago it was being able to use vim and bash properly :) - but not today, not anymore, for me at least. Anyway, all of this to ask: what laptop are you using to run Linux? Edit: forgot to add that I've been looking at System76 and Pop OS, but somehow they failed to convince me (together, or separately).
- Animats 6y ago
  Laptop? I use a desktop machine. Better ergonomics and a much larger screen.
  - simonebrunozzi 6y ago
    Got it.

throwawaysea 6y ago

Yes they are definitely overstepping their bounds. It feels less and less like an OS a power user can rely on. Unfortunately Mac OS is so opinionated it might be worse. But Linux doesn’t have the same ecosystem for games and streaming doesn’t work for some services. It seems there is no harbor from the storm these days...

akll100 6y ago
Nadella IT cells are downvoting heresy again. But I must be wrong, since the HN guidelines say this never happens.

solarkraft 6y ago

> I can only assume that I'm somehow outside of Microsoft's target market and just don't realize it. If you care about stuff like this you are not inside the target group. > But is there really a sizable fraction of computer users that want an OS to unavoidable behave like this? Nobody wants telemetry specifically, but it indirectly (provided somebody smart is receiving it, which is arguable in MS's case) benefits the average user by detecting their preferences and issues. Updates are easy to argue for. Barely anobody will update their system on their own because they just don't understand the security implications. The people who understand them will probably all agree that getting people up to date quickly is important (you could argue better education could make a difference here, but that is so much effort, would hassle the user more and wouldn't reach everyone). Ads are harder to argue for, but you could argue for them as a valid method of financing an otherwise free system (it was always a relatively transparent MS strategy to do this). ... But even without ads Windows is something I have a hard time tolerating in general. The version I use at work has most of the explicitly user-hostile things disabled and is still plenty infuriating.

tim333 6y ago

I think the "unavoidable telemetry / updates / ads" are more about making money for msft than what the users want. Dunno with the Python thing - maybe just a screw up?