5 ms·

Pretty much. If it was just some guys project nobody would give a shit until it was actually well tested and proven. But it was made by guy hired by Red Hat so

by xani 6y ago

Pretty much. If it was just some guys project nobody would give a shit until it was actually well tested and proven. But it was made by guy hired by Red Hat so instead of maturing and having to take actual user feedback before being used in anything significant it was pushed by a guy that vision is limited to "It works fine on my laptop". Who then decided to reinvent everything along the way like log storage that still takes over hundred of file opens (and tens of seconds) to get "the last 5 log lines of a command" ( https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2460 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2460 ), because why the fuck use say SQLite when you can have fun evening inventing your own shitty binary journal format. I do find a lot of stuff behind systemd useful but the ever-present half-assness of its solutions is annoying. Half-assed logging here, half-assed dhcp client there, quarter-assed ntp client elsewhere, all while basic functionality is still riddled with edge cases. Still a net positive over having to fix yet another fucked up init script...

Spivak 6y ago
This has not been my experience at all. The systemd project seems to take extreme care to adhere to the spec when implementing features. They don’t adhere to “this is how it used to work” which is where the bulk of the issue seems to be. The big controversy was when systemd-resolved implemented the spec to the letter and broke people’s assumption that listing DNS servers in order means they’ll be queried in that order.
- wtallis 6y ago
  > The systemd project seems to take extreme care to adhere to the spec when implementing features. They don’t adhere to “this is how it used to work” which is where the bulk of the issue seems to be. Really, the issue here is that "how it used to work" is mostly unambiguous, but I have no clue what you mean by "the spec", and I suspect you're actually referring to a multitude of specs, several of which were only created in the process of writing the relevant systemd components.
Supermancho 6y ago
> you can have fun evening inventing your own shitty binary journal format. I thought the reasoning was to make logs harder (or impossible) to tamper with. Something something about trading freedom for security.
- Supermancho 6y ago
  > https://lwn.net/Articles/512895/ https://lwn.net/Articles/512895/ the binary logs handled by the systemd journal can be "sealed" at regular time intervals. That seal is a cryptographic operation on the log data such that any tampering prior to the seal can be detected. This might be news to some people.

by xani 6y ago

Spivak 6y ago

This has not been my experience at all. The systemd project seems to take extreme care to adhere to the spec when implementing features. They don’t adhere to “this is how it used to work” which is where the bulk of the issue seems to be. The big controversy was when systemd-resolved implemented the spec to the letter and broke people’s assumption that listing DNS servers in order means they’ll be queried in that order.

wtallis 6y ago
> The systemd project seems to take extreme care to adhere to the spec when implementing features. They don’t adhere to “this is how it used to work” which is where the bulk of the issue seems to be. Really, the issue here is that "how it used to work" is mostly unambiguous, but I have no clue what you mean by "the spec", and I suspect you're actually referring to a multitude of specs, several of which were only created in the process of writing the relevant systemd components.

Supermancho 6y ago

> you can have fun evening inventing your own shitty binary journal format. I thought the reasoning was to make logs harder (or impossible) to tamper with. Something something about trading freedom for security.

Supermancho 6y ago
> https://lwn.net/Articles/512895/ https://lwn.net/Articles/512895/ the binary logs handled by the systemd journal can be "sealed" at regular time intervals. That seal is a cryptographic operation on the log data such that any tampering prior to the seal can be detected. This might be news to some people.