4 ms·

Reminds me years ago I stumbled on an essay by Richard Posner ex Chief Justice of the 7th Circuit. In it he discussed his belief that. a) The only way to keep

Reminds me years ago I stumbled on an essay by Richard Posner ex Chief Justice of the 7th Circuit. In it he discussed his belief that. a) The only way to keep poor people in line is the threat of prison. b) Middle class people can be kept in line by the threat of fines. c) However the wealthy are kept in line by the threat of losing their good reputation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Posner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Posner

hatenberg 7y ago
C Totally doesn't scale in the age of Trump and Moscow Mitch
- 1121redblackgo 7y ago
  Let's not take the conversation down this direction please.
ta1234567890 7y ago
From that list/summary it almost sounds like he's trying to protect the rich by saying that the typical forms of "keeping people in line", don't work with the wealthy. Maybe he should have been more sincere by explaining how the wealthy can buy or trade their way out of trouble, by unduly (or at least unfairly) influencing the legal system to their advantage.
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  He was saying fines and prison aren't usually needed to keep the wealthy from doing bad things. Poor people have neither reputation or money to lose so prison is the only way to motivate them. Which tells you how much Posner knows about actual poor people. For most poor people their good reputation is the only thing of value they have.
ceejayoz 7y ago
This is why some countries do income-based fines. Get a speeding ticket in some Scandinavian countries and you may be on the hook for six figures if you’re rich.
- cosmodisk 7y ago
  I used to live in Stockholm. Every now and then,on our way to the water, we used cross Östermalm-a pretty expensive area. One day,we noticed Mercedes SLS outside an apartment block. The guy must have been one of the earliest adopters,as it was only released for sales a few weeks earlier. After seeing the car for some time,one day it was gone.Oh,well,maybe the owner moved somewhere else or he sold it,etc.Turns out,this happened instead: www.motor1.com/news/23266/1-million-speeding-fine-in-switzerland-for-swedish-sls-owner/amp/ And the Swiss apparently keep your car until you fork out the fine..
tsimionescu 7y ago
That seems like utter nonsense. The threat of jail is much more daunting for middle-class people than poor people, and fines are often the other way around. However, the rich can afford fines and can generally buy their way, more or less legally, from jail sentences, so they don't see it as a realistic probability for themselves. This would be the only reason that the rich can't usually be kept in line by the threat of jail.
newen 7y ago
I mean..everyone can be kept in line with a).
takeda 7y ago
Those things affect most people, it's just that poor people don't have any reputation to worry about, and won't afford the fees. Rich people can also be punished by fees if they got them as much as the middle class (i.e. they need to be based on net worth), prison time will affect everyone. The biggest issue is that rich can use their money and influence to escape justice, I suppose maybe it means that reputation is the only thing left to control the rich, but that hardly helps, there are many rich people with horrible reputation that still do very well, one even got the highest office in the land.

hatenberg 7y ago

C Totally doesn't scale in the age of Trump and Moscow Mitch

1121redblackgo 7y ago
Let's not take the conversation down this direction please.

ta1234567890 7y ago

From that list/summary it almost sounds like he's trying to protect the rich by saying that the typical forms of "keeping people in line", don't work with the wealthy. Maybe he should have been more sincere by explaining how the wealthy can buy or trade their way out of trouble, by unduly (or at least unfairly) influencing the legal system to their advantage.

Gibbon1 7y ago
He was saying fines and prison aren't usually needed to keep the wealthy from doing bad things. Poor people have neither reputation or money to lose so prison is the only way to motivate them. Which tells you how much Posner knows about actual poor people. For most poor people their good reputation is the only thing of value they have.

ceejayoz 7y ago

This is why some countries do income-based fines. Get a speeding ticket in some Scandinavian countries and you may be on the hook for six figures if you’re rich.

cosmodisk 7y ago
I used to live in Stockholm. Every now and then,on our way to the water, we used cross Östermalm-a pretty expensive area. One day,we noticed Mercedes SLS outside an apartment block. The guy must have been one of the earliest adopters,as it was only released for sales a few weeks earlier. After seeing the car for some time,one day it was gone.Oh,well,maybe the owner moved somewhere else or he sold it,etc.Turns out,this happened instead: www.motor1.com/news/23266/1-million-speeding-fine-in-switzerland-for-swedish-sls-owner/amp/ And the Swiss apparently keep your car until you fork out the fine..

tsimionescu 7y ago

That seems like utter nonsense. The threat of jail is much more daunting for middle-class people than poor people, and fines are often the other way around. However, the rich can afford fines and can generally buy their way, more or less legally, from jail sentences, so they don't see it as a realistic probability for themselves. This would be the only reason that the rich can't usually be kept in line by the threat of jail.

newen 7y ago

I mean..everyone can be kept in line with a).

takeda 7y ago

Those things affect most people, it's just that poor people don't have any reputation to worry about, and won't afford the fees. Rich people can also be punished by fees if they got them as much as the middle class (i.e. they need to be based on net worth), prison time will affect everyone. The biggest issue is that rich can use their money and influence to escape justice, I suppose maybe it means that reputation is the only thing left to control the rich, but that hardly helps, there are many rich people with horrible reputation that still do very well, one even got the highest office in the land.