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Love Bug worm's creator tracked down to repair shop in Manila
- PappaPatat 6y agoI would like to say thank you to him, since it opened a huge budget and mandate for my security team at the time. No more draining discussion if AV needed to be installed on particular systems, the right to wipe any employees desk or laptop in case of "issues", create outbound firewall rules (yes those where new, and yes it saved a lot of damage 3 years later when Slammer hit, but that's another story) and budget to install "monitoring services" on whatever we'd like. The total data loss was limited, the costs of employees not being able to work was a lot worst.
- vanderZwan 6y agoHonestly, we probably should be grateful that this was the first big scare. It was a huge outbreak, but at the same time a very visible and relatively benign worm.
- bartread 6y agoExactly. Compared with what organised crime, nation states, political organisations, special interest groups and some shady companies are doing with hacking, manipulation, worms, and botnets nowadays this is pretty benign. A helpful wakeup call to everyone to take security more seriously, in fact.
- JoeAltmaier 6y agoWell, any given holiday keeps workers from working. I don't value that as much as some folks. We all got a day off! But it was certainly a wake-up call. And such a simple trick, to fool the world in a day.
- MithrilTuxedo 6y agoI guess that at the height of Windows market saturation. I thought it was rude to pay for an OS and then have to pay separately for software to protect that OS. It seemed off to me that the guy who wrote Melissa got jail time, but nothing happened to those who sold the software needed to run viruses. I stopped having Windows installed after Slammer hit. After almost two decades away, I got a job at a big American company that issues Windows laptops and lo-and-behold there's some seperately purchsed AV software installed. It makes the laptop a space heater. If I don't explicitly shut it down, the AV software never drops below 30% CPU and the thing's fans never stop running. They accidentally dropped AV for a couple weeks when they upgraded my machine from Windows 7 to 10 and it shaved five minutes off a ~17 minute Maven build. I'm one employ of tens or hundreds of thousands producing all this extraneous waste heat. My friends needle me about BitCoin's environmental impact. I ask them what the overhead of AV has been.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- notechback 6y agoThe comparison of bitcoin Vs AV energy usage is a bit ridiculous. No one of buying hundreds of GPUs to mine AV. That said, both are wasteful and ultimately neither should exist.
- LordDragonfang 6y ago>No one of buying hundreds of GPUs to mine AV No, rather companies are buying thousands of computers to install AV on. Bitcoin miners are a actually a very small minority of computer users, whereas AV results in an extra 10-30% power overhead (possibly more, if we factor in that modern cpus throttle way down if not under load) for the majority of all the corporate PCs in operation, to say nothing of home users. Back of the napkin math suggests that the comparison is indeed ridiculous, but only because AV usage absolutely dwarfs bitcoin usage.
- dzhiurgis 6y agoMy pet peeve is VP9 on YouTube vs Chrome on MacOS. My original estimate lack of codec on MacOS / YouTube's choice to drop x264 for high resolution videos waste as much power as entire country Puerto Rico. It's even impossible to play 8K YouTube videos on highest end MacBook and Chrome. It's ironic that MKBHD uploading them without being able to play them himself.
- waste_monk 6y agoWait until you hear about web browsers...
- Tuna-Fish 6y ago> The comparison of bitcoin Vs AV energy usage is a bit ridiculous. No one of buying hundreds of GPUs to mine AV. No, but they run almost everywhere. I'd be very surprised if bitcoin mining produces even 1% of the CO2 emissions of what AV software does. Mostly because the reward from mining has been competed so low that if you have to pay normal amounts for electricity, it's nowhere near profitable, so mining mostly happens in places with very low electricity prices, such as towns in China near hydroelectric dams with massive excess production.
- pedrocr 6y ago> The total data loss was limited, the costs of employees not being able to work was a lot worst. The productivity costs of all those mitigating measures shouldn't be ignored either. Modern corporate Windows images are incredible in how much CPU and RAM they can waste even at idle.
- dzhiurgis 6y agoIt's probably shit metric as my two browsers open now use 10GB of RAM on MacOS, but Windows 10 requires 2-4x less minimum RAM to run when compared with latest Ubuntu...
- pedrocr 6y agoThe problem isn't Windows. It's all the third-party stuff that gets added to Windows by corporate IT departments.
- jwilk 6y ago> he tweaked the code, adding an auto-spreading feature that would send copies of the virus to victims' Outlook contacts, using a flaw in Microsoft's Windows 95 operating system. What's the flaw?
- tachion 6y agoIt's Windows 95.
- jplayer01 6y agoBeyond the fact that W95 was a terrible POS security-wise, I can't find any more detailed information with a brief Google search. I wish there was a site that did in-depth analysis of how a virus worked and presented that technical information for public readers. edit: Although, this is decent https://malware.wikia.org/wiki/ILoveYou https://malware.wikia.org/wiki/ILoveYou
- easytiger 6y agoIt was a .vbs that the user has to run by clicking on it
- jplayer01 6y agoYeah, thanks for the complete lack of technical detail? The link I gave adds stuff like When the worm is executed, it copies itself as the files LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.VBS and MSKERNEL32.VBS in the Windows_system_folder and WIN32DLL.VBS in the Windows directory. It creates its own key named MSKernel32 under the Local machine registry key that causes programs to run and adds the value MSKERNEL32.VBS to it. It also creates a new Local Machine RunServices key named Win32DLL and adds WIN32DLL.VBS as a value to it, so it will run when the system boots, before the user even logs on. which is far more interesting than "a user is tricked into running a vbs script". And this is HN, that one liner is really not sufficient. edit: Why is this getting downvoted? He comments with a zero effort comment with zero useful information in response to my legitimate question and I get shit on. Typical HN. Fucking hate you stupid assholes.
- 6y ago
- PostOnce 6y agoCyberpunk, being broke and writing a virus to steal access passwords -- and then he ends up running a phone repair stall, even more cyberpunk. Reminds me of rtm's chapter in the book CYBERPUNK by Katie Hafner, pg's in there too. Except neither of them are now broke and running a phone stall in Manila.
- quickthrowman 6y agortm’s worm is mentioned in ‘The Cuckoo’s Egg’ by Cliff Stoll as well. While Cliff was working with rtm’s dad, cryptographer Robert H. Morris, to solve his hacker case, rtm released the worm. His dad was Chief Scientist of the NSA National Computer Security Center at the time :)
- Yajirobe 6y agoHow the heck can someone talented enough to write a virus end up in a phone repair shop?
- momofarm 6y agoMaybe judge rule him shall not touch computer for life(and for everybody's good?)
- dzhiurgis 6y agoPhone repair shop in Manilla is gonna be very different from repair shop in western mall. In manilla they gonna resolder any component from a salvaged phone, where in west you gonna buy a new case for it (probably exaggeration from both ends). My point is - it was quite exciting and interesting job for early 2000s, probably paid ok too. There was some software to crack and occasionally write something. Nowadays the hardware is much cheaper when adjusted for inflation, but people still need the service. Jailbreak scene continues to exist too. Also transitioning from writing a simple virus into production software is a long long way.
- baxtr 6y ago> He also created a title for the email attachment that would have global appeal, tempting people across the world to open it. "I figured out that many people want a boyfriend, they want each other, they want love, so I called it that," he said. Great product management
- ginko 6y agoIt's weird that the BBC doesn't refer to the worm by it's more well-known name: ILOVEYOU
- lotsofpulp 6y agoILOVEYOU malware is a less ambiguous headline and would result in fewer clicks.
- microcolonel 6y agoMedia have an incentive to make titles misleading and incomplete.
- IAmEveryone 6y agoThe Wikipedia article has both names and the sources it cites seem to be divided about equally.
- bdg 6y agoCan we change the thread title to reference ILOVEYOU instead? I thought the article was about "Herbie", the TV show about a Volkswagen.
- wmeredith 6y agoMe too. I was very confused.
- hadrien01 6y agoIt was called Love Bug by newspapers at the time: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/736080.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/736080.stm
- lisper 6y agoMaybe: "Creator of Love-Bug computer virus (2000) tracked down..."
- themihai 6y agoI thought it was about A Bug's Life(Pixar)
- eganist 6y agocc @dang
- dang 6y agoThat doesn't work. You have to email hn@ycombinator.com to be sure that we'll see a message. Well, relatively sure, anyhow. We sift through the spam bin pretty carefully.
- eganist 6y agoYou know, for years I was under the impression you had a script that grepped for references to @dang because I'd done this before to excellent effect. Don't know where I got the idea.
- ilaksh 6y agoHe did it because he could not afford internet access. Security is an economic problem. The economy is a technical problem. Just like computer viruses. That's what money is. A technology. We need to make it into a high technology.
- londons_explore 6y agoI can not afford a helecopter... The optics are a bit different there...
- aaron695 6y agoI was always impressed when they tracked down the Lahore based brothers behind the world's first computer virus outbreak, Brain. It was made easier by the fact they included their address and phone in the code, back in the days when viruses were legal and everyone read the code. Time did a Cyberpunk-esque classic write up at the time, but it is paywalled http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,968490,00.html http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,968490,... Another blog- https://nustscienceblog.wordpress.com/2015/05/12/the-computer-virus-from-lahore/ https://nustscienceblog.wordpress.com/2015/05/12/the-compute...
- bsanr2 6y agoNever seen a starker illustration of the idea that poverty anywhere eventually makes itself everyone's problem. Dude just wanted affordable internet access, and that was enough of an incentive for him to do something that accidentally caused billions of dollars in losses around the world. Here's a fun thought: was that cheaper to the global community than whatever infrastructural improvements that would have allowed de Guzman stable-enough internet access to not seek out his infamous solution? What other situations like this are there waiting in the wings, and would fixing them cost more or less than the alternative of letting those situations play out as they may? Think how 9/11, terrorist attacks in general, are spurred on by groups aggrieved by socioeconomic or cultural conditions; what would it cost to placate them? Do we not because it would ultimately be more onerous?
- burlesona 6y agoThat’s an interesting though. Serious question: how do you quantify inequalities that represents a systemic risk versus ones that do not? I ask because perfectly equal wealth distribution or maybe even desirable (see many attempts at communism ending badly). Further, there are parts of the world where people have very different cultures and “standards of living” and are happy, which is not dangerous even as it is not “equal.” So how do you best quantify and anticipate which “infrastructure differences” are fine and maybe even locally optimal, versus which ones are going to lead to harm?
- bsanr2 6y agoAsk people what they want, and then listen when they tell you? Therein lies another problem: the perceived cost of improvements is modified by the perceptions of "deservedness" on the part of the people paying. Compare post-WWII to post-WOT investment. The Marshall Plan et al. were correctly perceived as being less expensive than the alternative of letting wounds fester and courting another war, but I'd argue that this relatively clear-eyed approach was influenced by who the investment was going to (Westerners, European, white people) and what it was to be used for (returning Europe to its former glory after utter destruction). There has been no talk of that kind of investment in Iraq/Syria/Afghanistan/Libya, whatever their people may desire.
- ackbar03 6y agoIts pretty fascinating how a lot of these technically adept hackers all tend to come from relatively poor environments. Even now a lot of the security bug bounty programs have a large proportion of Indians in relatively poverished villages somewhere. Russia after the collapse of the soviet union produced a ton of hackers. In China some of the most technically competent people I've interacted with doing shady stuff with bots and REing games and what not come from some random village. I'd say this is meritocracy working at its best and something you'd only see in the online world
- DubiousPusher 6y agoIs there any evidence besides movie cliches to indicate there are indeed more hackers in poor countries?
- notechback 6y agoMaybe it's just that if you're from one of those places you likely have no formal credentials and no relevant local employment options, not at you recruitable abroad. So they do what they can, and a small fraction are successful in good or bad ways.
- yters 6y agoAlso I notice that coders from wealthy backgrounds focus on high level languages, abstractions, etc. I don't see a lot of people digging down to the fundamental technical implementation, and actually tend to look down on such inclinations as over optimization. On the other hand, a poor person probably has access to a very limited range of technology, so ends up learning the technology inside and out. Maybe they also don't even have regular electricity or internet, so has to learn technology using pencil, paper and by thinking about it. Much more likely to give a deep understanding of the subject matter.
- dzhiurgis 6y agoWealthy people have to be more productive as they are paid more for their productivity.
- soneca 6y agoThe article starts with: > "Filipino Onel de Guzman, now 44, says he unleashed the Love Bug computer worm to steal passwords so he could access the internet without paying." But that's not true, according to the same article. That was just the first one he created, then he created something different to spread around the world. It doesn't say his intentions, but for sure it was not to steal local passwords for internet access. By the end of the article: > "He claims he initially sent the virus only to Philippine victims, with whom he communicated in chat rooms, because he only wanted to steal internet access passwords that worked in his local area. However, in spring 2000 he tweaked the code, adding an auto-spreading feature that would send copies of the virus to victims' Outlook contacts, using a flaw in Microsoft's Windows 95 operating system. He also created a title for the email attachment that would have global appeal, tempting people across the world to open it."
- deathanatos 6y ago> The man behind the world's first major computer virus outbreak > The Love Bug pandemic began on 4 May, 2000. The Melissa virus happened the year prior.[1] The Morris worm[2] happened in 1988. Also, interestingly, PG shows up in the article for that one, > It is usually reported that around 6,000 major UNIX machines were infected by the Morris worm; however, Morris' colleague Paul Graham claimed, "I was there when this statistic was cooked up, and this was the recipe: someone guessed that there were about 60,000 computers attached to the Internet, and that the worm might have infected ten percent of them." [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melissa_(computer_virus) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melissa_(computer_virus) [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_worm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_worm
- nwallin 6y agoThat jumped out at me too. There were a lot of others; Michelangelo got a lot of press. I remember being in the doctor's office on March 6th 1992, and all the computers' power switches were conspicuously taped shut and the receptionist told me to not turn on the computer (that was like 6 feet behind the counter) because the hard disk would get wiped. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelangelo_%28computer_virus%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelangelo_%28computer_virus... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_computer_viruses_and_worms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_computer_viruses_a...