4 ms·

Ah the benefits of selling an addictive substance in a market with a large base of addicts and a legal environment that largely shields you from liability for e

by nullc 7y ago

Ah the benefits of selling an addictive substance in a market with a large base of addicts and a legal environment that largely shields you from liability for even the fairly direct consequences of your product (such as drunk driving after serving at places and times where the non-availability of alternatives guarentees that most of your patrons will be driving).

_ph_ 7y ago
Most customers who have a glass of wine or beer with their dinner don't qualify as addicted. Also, the restaurants make the same (or even more profit) when selling alcohol-free beverages with their food.
- smabie 7y ago
  Yeah, but I don't generally sit down and drink 3 cokes in one sitting. Alcohol is a great money maker because there's a large standard deviation to how many drinks a given person might order. It would be very rare for a customer to drink 3 cokes with dinner but not uncommon for someone to order 3 beers.
  - _ph_ 7y ago
    When I am out in larger groups, the number of drinks varies little with what was ordered, be it beer, alcohol-free beer or other beverages. This is one medium to large sized glass of beverage for a lunch and several in the evening. Coke might be an exception, but it is very rare, that someone orders coke in a restaurant. Usually you have fruit juices of many variations, often as a "Schorle", that is fruit juice mixed with sparkling water. Or just water. And the prices differ only little between a glass of beer and of juice.
    - _ph_ 7y ago
      Perhaps I should clarify: my statement applies for Germany and probably holds true for large parts of Europe.
  - mtrower 7y ago
    > Yeah, but I don't generally sit down and drink 3 cokes in one sitting Do you generally sit down and drink 3 beers in one sitting? > It would be very rare for a customer to drink 3 cokes with dinner but not uncommon for someone to order 3 beers. At home, I drink much as I'm thirsty for, be it soda, beer, wine, tea, water... I certainly don't drink more just because it's alcoholic. I might drink less, or switch to something else, if I'm starting to feel drunk and it's not an occasion for such. At a restaurant, I order less when alcohol is involved. I prefer to have my senses about me if I'll be driving home...
    - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
      Where I drink 5 or 6 with lunch. Not coke - sweet tea.
sl1ck731 7y ago
Are you arguing for prohibition? Or just prohibition outside of a few handful of cities where driving is uncommon?
- nullc 7y ago
  I wasn't arguing for anything-- it's just an observation. A bar would be a very different and less profitable business if they had the normal spectrum of liability other businesses have when their actions result in predictable harm. Or even if just law enforcement weren't effectively prevented from staking out bars and stopping obviously drunk patrons as soon as they started to drive. Similarly, I also believe they'd be much less profitable if not for the rather alarming amount of addiction and abuse. I don't think prohibition is a good idea but the fact that I'm opposed to prohibition doesn't make me blind to the externalities that bars create which are a component of their profitability. There are lots of less than perfect things in the world. We can make them better by willing to discuss them and not being to quick to assume that any criticism is a call for a prohibition. In this case, especially, there was a comparison with other businesses and more than anything I wanted to point out that it wasn't a fair comparison because of bars unusual amount of externalized costs.
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    I don't think better enforcement of drunk driving laws would force bars to change. Why do you believe that?
smabie 7y ago
Well, like, food is addictive too. In fact, pretty much anything and everything is addictive to someone, no matter how mundane or weird.
- nullc 7y ago
  Are you suggesting that alcohol addiction is equivalent to 'pretty much anything and everything [being] addictive to someone'?

by nullc 7y ago

_ph_ 7y ago

Most customers who have a glass of wine or beer with their dinner don't qualify as addicted. Also, the restaurants make the same (or even more profit) when selling alcohol-free beverages with their food.

smabie 7y ago
Yeah, but I don't generally sit down and drink 3 cokes in one sitting. Alcohol is a great money maker because there's a large standard deviation to how many drinks a given person might order. It would be very rare for a customer to drink 3 cokes with dinner but not uncommon for someone to order 3 beers.
- _ph_ 7y ago
  When I am out in larger groups, the number of drinks varies little with what was ordered, be it beer, alcohol-free beer or other beverages. This is one medium to large sized glass of beverage for a lunch and several in the evening. Coke might be an exception, but it is very rare, that someone orders coke in a restaurant. Usually you have fruit juices of many variations, often as a "Schorle", that is fruit juice mixed with sparkling water. Or just water. And the prices differ only little between a glass of beer and of juice.
  - _ph_ 7y ago
    Perhaps I should clarify: my statement applies for Germany and probably holds true for large parts of Europe.
- mtrower 7y ago
  > Yeah, but I don't generally sit down and drink 3 cokes in one sitting Do you generally sit down and drink 3 beers in one sitting? > It would be very rare for a customer to drink 3 cokes with dinner but not uncommon for someone to order 3 beers. At home, I drink much as I'm thirsty for, be it soda, beer, wine, tea, water... I certainly don't drink more just because it's alcoholic. I might drink less, or switch to something else, if I'm starting to feel drunk and it's not an occasion for such. At a restaurant, I order less when alcohol is involved. I prefer to have my senses about me if I'll be driving home...
  - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
    Where I drink 5 or 6 with lunch. Not coke - sweet tea.

sl1ck731 7y ago

Are you arguing for prohibition? Or just prohibition outside of a few handful of cities where driving is uncommon?

nullc 7y ago
I wasn't arguing for anything-- it's just an observation. A bar would be a very different and less profitable business if they had the normal spectrum of liability other businesses have when their actions result in predictable harm. Or even if just law enforcement weren't effectively prevented from staking out bars and stopping obviously drunk patrons as soon as they started to drive. Similarly, I also believe they'd be much less profitable if not for the rather alarming amount of addiction and abuse. I don't think prohibition is a good idea but the fact that I'm opposed to prohibition doesn't make me blind to the externalities that bars create which are a component of their profitability. There are lots of less than perfect things in the world. We can make them better by willing to discuss them and not being to quick to assume that any criticism is a call for a prohibition. In this case, especially, there was a comparison with other businesses and more than anything I wanted to point out that it wasn't a fair comparison because of bars unusual amount of externalized costs.
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  I don't think better enforcement of drunk driving laws would force bars to change. Why do you believe that?

smabie 7y ago

Well, like, food is addictive too. In fact, pretty much anything and everything is addictive to someone, no matter how mundane or weird.

nullc 7y ago
Are you suggesting that alcohol addiction is equivalent to 'pretty much anything and everything [being] addictive to someone'?