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Something's up. In Germany in a normal city I can get a döner the same size as the one in the photo for €3 ($3.50?). It's not sourdough nor high quality protein

Something's up. In Germany in a normal city I can get a döner the same size as the one in the photo for €3 ($3.50?). It's not sourdough nor high quality protein but that can't explain the $7.50 difference. Edit: as the commenter below reminded me, it's actually more like €4-5 but my point stands.

Tomte 6y ago
That's uncommonly cheap. East Germany somewhere? Those Döner prices are usually found in Berlin itself. I live in a cheap part of Germany, and our Döners have gone up from 4.50 or 4.70 Euros to about 5 Euros everywhere. But let's not forget that even 5 Euros is an insane price for that much meat. It works out because (a) the meat isn't great to begin with and (b) Dönerstuben are hotbeds for tax evasion. Many many Döners never make it into the cash register.
- sleavey 6y ago
  Niedersachsen. I usually get a falafel tasche which is €3 (same size) but you're right, maybe the equivalent sized döner is 1 or 2€ more. Still, there's a large gap in price I can't get my head around. Maybe your tax evasion point could be it, or maybe the author's business is in an unusually high rent area (shopping centre or big city or something).
- terhechte 6y ago
  To add to this, the Dönnerbude is probably in a part of the city where rents are low (whereas US restaurants are often in designated city center high rent areas), and the Dönnerbude is usually very, very small.
- topranks 6y ago
  Dönerstuben What a word.
- tiborsaas 6y ago
  Budapest: 2.2 EUR for a nice Doner. The best shawarma I was able to find costs 3 EUR in the innermost district.
gambiting 6y ago
Yeah in Poland it would be about 10PLN(so also about $3). But the the labour and rent are super cheap, even if the ingredients are high quality - that's where the saving will come from .
dlkf 6y ago
Wolf Down is in Canada. Your currency conversion is incorrect.
- sleavey 6y ago
  Ah, that's starting to explain the difference here. 5 EUR is approximately 8 CAD.
winter_blue 6y ago
Yea, a döner can be made for far less money. They're using over-the-top expensive premium ingredients, but if you just use regular supermarket ingredients, you could make a döner for far far less. Let me attempt a prices breakdown: I'm in the U.S., and the nearby Aldi sells boneless, skinless chicken breasts for $2.49 per pound (a restaurant could probably order in bulk, and get that an even lower price). A pound is 453 grams. There's probably only 100 grams of meat in a döner. So 113g of chicken in a döner should cost around $0.50. (It cost them $2.50, a 5x premium.) Pre-packaged pita bread (döner wrappers) probably cost far far less than $0.75. I'm not going to analyze, but I'm going to guess it actually costs closer to between $0.05 and $0.10. Then there's the sauce. It too, when bought it bulk, likely costs less than $0.10 per döner. So that's all to say you can definitely make a good döner in the U.S. for less than $1 per döner in terms of ingredient costs. In terms of labor cost -- if you pay someone $15/hour, and if they take 1 minute per döner, which is definitely possible if you do things assembly-style, then the labor cost is $0.25 per döner. If you're less efficient, then maybe the labor cost is $0.50 per döner. So now labor + ingredients is somewhere between $1.25 to $1.50. Lastly, there's rent/utilities/etc. This totally depends on where you're located, but assumeing you're in a non-super-expensive area, let's guesstimate it costs around $1 total per döner purchased to cover these things. We've reached a final cost price of $2.50 per döner. I can see how a 3 euro price is totally achievable in Germany. Food can be cheap in the U.S., even in nice neighborhoods. As an example, I offer "Tara Inn", a tiny old local restaurant in Port Jefferson, NY. (Their menu: https://zmenu.com/tara-inn-port-jefferson-online-menu/ https://zmenu.com/tara-inn-port-jefferson-online-menu/) They sell pretty darn good hamburgers for $1.00 each, cheeseburger for $1.50 a piece, a grilled chicken sandwich for $2.00, etc. And the food there is actually good. This, in a neighborhood (North Shore Long Island) where the typical family income is $100k+. (Although the immediate vicinity of Port Jefferson is not considered super-bougey by north shore folks.) There's another reason why döners can be fairly expensive in the US (even at a places using non-premium ingredients). Turkish cuisine is still somewhat exotic here. The US doesn't have the huge fairly-recent immigrant Turkish population that Germany has, so döners fall under the realm of "exotic mediterranean" foods. Hence their higher-than-typical prices.
- simonw 6y ago
  That's because Tara Inn is a bar. They likely lose money on the cheap food and make it up on drinks.
Mikeb85 6y ago
Donairs (how we Canadians spell Döner) everywhere are like $8-11 in Canada. And not for a premium one either. Meat here is more expensive than the US or Europe, rents are more expensive than the US or Europe, health and ventilation requirements for restaurants are more stringent than the US or Europe and in Ontario the minimum wage is $14/hr. I've never been to Germany, but many of my favourite bars and restaurants in France wouldn't even be able to exist in Canada, they would run afoul of all our regulations.
- hnick 6y ago
  It's about the same here in Sydney too. I'm almost certain most of this is due to rent, some of it minimum wage.
hnick 6y ago
It's not really that accurate to compare costs across markets like this. There are too many variables. Something like the Big Mac index is a good way to reveal this: https://fxssi.com/big-mac-index https://fxssi.com/big-mac-index Canada is ~10% more than the Euro area.
alkonaut 6y ago
And in Stockholm you’d be lucky to get one under €9. These things vary with taxes and living costs (which ironically include the Döner). Germany also has a huge Turkish community, perhaps competition is just fierce in that category?
- Tomte 6y ago
  It is very competitive in Germany, and most of all in Berlin (where the Döner was actually invented!). Too bad that there are very few real Turkish restaurants around. We happen to have one in my town and it's very, very good. When Germans think "Turkish" they think "Döner", and that's just unfortunate.
kenneth 6y ago
A good Döner in Berlin runs about €5, this restaurant is in Canada where CA$11 = €7. It's slightly more expensive than dirt-cheap Berlin, but it's hard to compete with dirt-cheap Berlin. Berlin is wonderfully cheap in every aspect. Most of the western world can't compete with that. Try having a similar Döner in Zürich and you'll be wishing for that $11.
- notechback 6y ago
  And try any small German town and it will be cheaper. Zurich being in Switzerland which has one of the highest costs of living in the world is not really a good comparison. It's like saying "beer in X is cheaper than in Norway" - it will nearly always be true ;)
- gbronner 6y ago
  NYC is 4-7$ usd
- kid_atticus 6y ago
  I live near the one of the best Döner and most famous places in Berlin and it is €4.10 including everything.

Tomte 6y ago

That's uncommonly cheap. East Germany somewhere? Those Döner prices are usually found in Berlin itself. I live in a cheap part of Germany, and our Döners have gone up from 4.50 or 4.70 Euros to about 5 Euros everywhere. But let's not forget that even 5 Euros is an insane price for that much meat. It works out because (a) the meat isn't great to begin with and (b) Dönerstuben are hotbeds for tax evasion. Many many Döners never make it into the cash register.

sleavey 6y ago
Niedersachsen. I usually get a falafel tasche which is €3 (same size) but you're right, maybe the equivalent sized döner is 1 or 2€ more. Still, there's a large gap in price I can't get my head around. Maybe your tax evasion point could be it, or maybe the author's business is in an unusually high rent area (shopping centre or big city or something).
terhechte 6y ago
To add to this, the Dönnerbude is probably in a part of the city where rents are low (whereas US restaurants are often in designated city center high rent areas), and the Dönnerbude is usually very, very small.
topranks 6y ago
Dönerstuben What a word.
tiborsaas 6y ago
Budapest: 2.2 EUR for a nice Doner. The best shawarma I was able to find costs 3 EUR in the innermost district.

gambiting 6y ago

Yeah in Poland it would be about 10PLN(so also about $3). But the the labour and rent are super cheap, even if the ingredients are high quality - that's where the saving will come from .

dlkf 6y ago

Wolf Down is in Canada. Your currency conversion is incorrect.

sleavey 6y ago
Ah, that's starting to explain the difference here. 5 EUR is approximately 8 CAD.

winter_blue 6y ago

Yea, a döner can be made for far less money. They're using over-the-top expensive premium ingredients, but if you just use regular supermarket ingredients, you could make a döner for far far less. Let me attempt a prices breakdown: I'm in the U.S., and the nearby Aldi sells boneless, skinless chicken breasts for $2.49 per pound (a restaurant could probably order in bulk, and get that an even lower price). A pound is 453 grams. There's probably only 100 grams of meat in a döner. So 113g of chicken in a döner should cost around $0.50. (It cost them $2.50, a 5x premium.) Pre-packaged pita bread (döner wrappers) probably cost far far less than $0.75. I'm not going to analyze, but I'm going to guess it actually costs closer to between $0.05 and $0.10. Then there's the sauce. It too, when bought it bulk, likely costs less than $0.10 per döner. So that's all to say you can definitely make a good döner in the U.S. for less than $1 per döner in terms of ingredient costs. In terms of labor cost -- if you pay someone $15/hour, and if they take 1 minute per döner, which is definitely possible if you do things assembly-style, then the labor cost is $0.25 per döner. If you're less efficient, then maybe the labor cost is $0.50 per döner. So now labor + ingredients is somewhere between $1.25 to $1.50. Lastly, there's rent/utilities/etc. This totally depends on where you're located, but assumeing you're in a non-super-expensive area, let's guesstimate it costs around $1 total per döner purchased to cover these things. We've reached a final cost price of $2.50 per döner. I can see how a 3 euro price is totally achievable in Germany. Food can be cheap in the U.S., even in nice neighborhoods. As an example, I offer "Tara Inn", a tiny old local restaurant in Port Jefferson, NY. (Their menu: https://zmenu.com/tara-inn-port-jefferson-online-menu/ https://zmenu.com/tara-inn-port-jefferson-online-menu/) They sell pretty darn good hamburgers for $1.00 each, cheeseburger for $1.50 a piece, a grilled chicken sandwich for $2.00, etc. And the food there is actually good. This, in a neighborhood (North Shore Long Island) where the typical family income is $100k+. (Although the immediate vicinity of Port Jefferson is not considered super-bougey by north shore folks.) There's another reason why döners can be fairly expensive in the US (even at a places using non-premium ingredients). Turkish cuisine is still somewhat exotic here. The US doesn't have the huge fairly-recent immigrant Turkish population that Germany has, so döners fall under the realm of "exotic mediterranean" foods. Hence their higher-than-typical prices.

simonw 6y ago
That's because Tara Inn is a bar. They likely lose money on the cheap food and make it up on drinks.

Mikeb85 6y ago

Donairs (how we Canadians spell Döner) everywhere are like $8-11 in Canada. And not for a premium one either. Meat here is more expensive than the US or Europe, rents are more expensive than the US or Europe, health and ventilation requirements for restaurants are more stringent than the US or Europe and in Ontario the minimum wage is $14/hr. I've never been to Germany, but many of my favourite bars and restaurants in France wouldn't even be able to exist in Canada, they would run afoul of all our regulations.

hnick 6y ago
It's about the same here in Sydney too. I'm almost certain most of this is due to rent, some of it minimum wage.

hnick 6y ago

It's not really that accurate to compare costs across markets like this. There are too many variables. Something like the Big Mac index is a good way to reveal this: https://fxssi.com/big-mac-index https://fxssi.com/big-mac-index Canada is ~10% more than the Euro area.

alkonaut 6y ago

And in Stockholm you’d be lucky to get one under €9. These things vary with taxes and living costs (which ironically include the Döner). Germany also has a huge Turkish community, perhaps competition is just fierce in that category?

Tomte 6y ago
It is very competitive in Germany, and most of all in Berlin (where the Döner was actually invented!). Too bad that there are very few real Turkish restaurants around. We happen to have one in my town and it's very, very good. When Germans think "Turkish" they think "Döner", and that's just unfortunate.

kenneth 6y ago

A good Döner in Berlin runs about €5, this restaurant is in Canada where CA$11 = €7. It's slightly more expensive than dirt-cheap Berlin, but it's hard to compete with dirt-cheap Berlin. Berlin is wonderfully cheap in every aspect. Most of the western world can't compete with that. Try having a similar Döner in Zürich and you'll be wishing for that $11.

notechback 6y ago
And try any small German town and it will be cheaper. Zurich being in Switzerland which has one of the highest costs of living in the world is not really a good comparison. It's like saying "beer in X is cheaper than in Norway" - it will nearly always be true ;)
gbronner 6y ago
NYC is 4-7$ usd
kid_atticus 6y ago
I live near the one of the best Döner and most famous places in Berlin and it is €4.10 including everything.