9 ms·

My wife and I just bought a new car, and the Sales Manager had the gall to tell us that there was a $4,000 Surcharge because "the factory is closed and there is

My wife and I just bought a new car, and the Sales Manager had the gall to tell us that there was a $4,000 Surcharge because "the factory is closed and there is a shortage of new cars". This while standing in a sea of new cars and no shoppers. We did not pay the surcharge.

steveeq1 6y ago
Whenever someone tells me they're a salesmen for a living, I think of things like this.
- eldavido 6y ago
  Good salespeople help customers by thoroughly understanding their needs, matching what the company sells to the customer, and explaining why the thing being sold is the best in terms the customer cares about. Don't hate salespeople. Hate the fact that certain companies insist on employing armies of minimally-trained, low-skill, low-dollar lackeys running around who offer little benefit to anyone, especially high-information buyers, which you seem to be (which, keep in mind, not everyone will be). FWIW I love good salespeople but also hate "being sold" in the way OP describes.
  - LeifCarrotson 6y ago
    I deal with salespeople on a regular basis for industrial automation components. I'm an engineer and would consider myself a very high-information buyer, and I spend a lot of time with the products after purchasing and hear about any reliability or performance issues that crop up in the machine for years after it ships, so I know what I've been sold. In that line of work, I'd say that there are 3 in 10 that drop by the office who are worth many times their commission - it's amazing to be able to describe your needs, and hear which of their products match those specifications plus considerations of requirements I hadn't realized, how their other customers are using the devices, know which are stocked/standard and when you've generated a parametric part number that's never been written before. But some of them are not really much more useful than the parametric catalog, and a couple of them just need to give up the engineering sales and switch to a car dealership or multi-level marketing scam.
    - fouc 6y ago
      I'd almost call that style of salesmanship as something like an "account representative" or perhaps there's a better word for it. But it's someone with intimate knowledge of the industry, of the other customers, and works closely with the customer and even educates the customer.
      - toomanybeersies 6y ago
        I've heard them called Sales Engineers before. They're usually technical employees or engineers before they get into sales, and carry their technical knowledge and industry expertise into a sales role.
  - steveeq1 6y ago
    I've read many books on "selling" and I've also been a business owner for 12-years and dealt with salesmen quite heavily during this period. I know all the tactics, in other words. And I've never met a single sales person within those 12-years that did not resort to dirty tricks. Not. A. Single. One.
    - vincnetas 6y ago
      Could you share most common dirty tricks for ones who have little experience?
      - ddrt 6y ago
        Sure can, sonny Jim! And if you sign up to my newsletter and pay the minimal cost for my free ebook you too can know all the secrets to sales.
      - steveeq1 6y ago
        This book lists a lot of them: https://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Power-Negotiating-15th-Anniversary-ebook/dp/B07JMQBZKH/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=secrets+of+power+negotiating&qid=1588403021&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Power-Negotiating-15th-Annive... I encourage every entrepeneur to read this, because you'll see them time-and-time again. Most of the tactics are used to "get what you want", as they say, but also making the other side convinved they "won". Where they presumably come back and do it again to you. It relies on cheap psychological tactics. As a business-owner, 100% of the salesmen I dealt with used these same tactics. Identifying the tactic and calling it out usually neutralizes the tactic with the salesmen. But as an arbitrary example, anchoring numbers. They'll show you an insanely expensive first solution. And then later lead you to a merely overpriced-solution. But the second ones seems "cheap" because they are judging it from perspective of the first price solution.
- BurningFrog 6y ago
  Sales people in general do important work and earn the money they're paid. Car sales people are a special case, they're protected by tons of regulations, so you have to deal with one.
  - steveeq1 6y ago
    I've read many books on "selling" and I've also been a business owner for 12-years and dealt with salesmen quite heavily during this period. I know all the tactics, in other words. And I've never met a single sales person within those 12-years that did not resort to dirty tricks. Not. A. Single. One.
  - kwhitefoot 6y ago
    > you have to deal with one. But you don't have to play the game by their rules. After all you are the one with the money, you can just take it elsewhere. If you are buying a new car it's not as if they are selling some rare commodity that only they have. When they start bullshitting tell them to cut it out or you will leave; and make sure you carry out the threat if they keep trying to pull the wool over your eyes. And make sure that you actually know what you want and what it is worth to you so that you don't get distracted by shiny irrelevancies.
sjg007 6y ago
I’d report that to the manufacturer and your local attorney general. It should at least be filed under price gouging laws.
chrischen 6y ago
What economic value, or what problem, is a car salesman solving? Price discrimination as a service? And if they were really necessary why does Tesla not need them?
- LordFast 6y ago
  None, but I believe they hold political power both in terms of dealership associations and also in terms of bargaining rights from manufacturers. It's an outdated system that should have been dead a decade ago, but not yet.
  - pdonis 6y ago
    > It's an outdated system that should have been dead a decade ago Longer than that, I would say. I have not bought a single car where the dealer added any value to the process at all. And I've been buying cars for three decades now.
    - gwicks56 6y ago
      I am usually more up to speed on the features and options of the vehicle than the person selling it to me. I think they exist to rip people like my Mum off, who think because the nice man advises she really does need the AWD version for inner city life, she should pay the extra $3k, as it's "safer".
      - newyankee 6y ago
        When i bought my last SUV i actually changed my preference from one popular Japanese brand to another because although the salesman at large Japanese dealer (Toyota) was cool, i had to give a small feedback session with his boss about what influenced my choice. The funny part of the story is that the original salesman was a UK origin American and the boss was Asian origin American (point being they were not from a small city or anything). I was so pissed off by the Boss' line of questioning that i actually changed my decision. I realized in my US stay of many years that a lot of economy is rent-seeking like everywhere. Dealers primarily exist as ICE cars needed maintenance and legacy reasons. However it is a pity that they cannot be disrupted. I have not had experience with platforms like Carvana but i avoid used cars from people because i have had bad experiences before.
sabujp 6y ago
tried carmax?
Bubbadoo 6y ago
With slackening demand for many products that might be considered more discretionary, we're going to see a unprecedented move by producers to maintain price pressure. Additionally, we presently have over 30 million people who are out of work and that's just what U3 is reporting. As you point out, there aren't going to be many people in a position to buy cars, electronics, home improvements, etc. Oh and those trillions of $ the government is hard at work giving away is neither going to the businesses they say they want to help nor you, the citizen. In fact, almost all of the government's pandemic actions really haven't helped those who really have a need. On the non-discretionary front, various food items are reportedly in short-supply. Nothing is further from the truth. But with 80% of the restaurants down (a rumored 40% says they're closed for good), many distributors are out of business. Milk, beef, poultry should be seeing huge deflationary price moves. But by faking the shortages, the producers keep prices artificially high or even higher than pre-pandemic. For more info on how this turns out, please research the fall of the Roman Empire.
- nick_kline 6y ago
  I think it's true though that the places that used to make food in bulk are struggling to repackage their food for consumers to buy in smaller quantities, that can certainly lead to fewer foods available. so there is potential for wasting enough food that leads to shortages, but there is a real loss of market potential for those farmers that were selling foods in bulk to restaurants.
- pokoleo 6y ago
  Respectfully disagree about the food situation. The supply chain is bifurcated between industrial supply (e.g. restaurants) and personal use (e.g. grocery). Industrial consumption has flatlined, nobody's going out. Personal consumption is through the roof -- which is where the shortages are coming from. Manufacturing cannot switch over fast enough, which is what is causing this glut.
  - ryguytilidie 6y ago
    I've found that restaurants are getting better at fixing this. We've seen a shortage of flour and eggs at our local market, but we got takeout from a local restaurant the other night and they offered us eggs, flour and milk at a completely reasonable price for a win for all. Obviously not everyone can do this, but it seems like people are adapting at least!
nick_kline 6y ago
Please tell us more. I imagine you said "reality contradicts your statement" in some way.
- sxcurry 6y ago
  We said we wouldn't pay it, and negotiated a price nicely below MSRP. They caved very quickly - not sure why they even bothered trying.
  - cbg0 6y ago
    > not sure why they even bothered trying. Because not everyone is willing/able to negotiate and even if this tactic only works on 10% of people that buy a car, that's still a nice commission for the sales guy.
lostcolony 6y ago
Hoping you laughed in his face and told him to drop the agreed upon price by another $2k or you walk.
- rasz 6y ago
  Nah, he even got the extra TruCoat.
jeffdavis 6y ago
"A shortage? Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. I don't want to be a hoarder or anything. We will be on our way and leave this car for someone who really needs it. Please call me back when inventories have returned to normal."
ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
Why did you even go through with the deal after having been treated in such a manner?

steveeq1 6y ago

Whenever someone tells me they're a salesmen for a living, I think of things like this.

eldavido 6y ago
Good salespeople help customers by thoroughly understanding their needs, matching what the company sells to the customer, and explaining why the thing being sold is the best in terms the customer cares about. Don't hate salespeople. Hate the fact that certain companies insist on employing armies of minimally-trained, low-skill, low-dollar lackeys running around who offer little benefit to anyone, especially high-information buyers, which you seem to be (which, keep in mind, not everyone will be). FWIW I love good salespeople but also hate "being sold" in the way OP describes.
- LeifCarrotson 6y ago
  I deal with salespeople on a regular basis for industrial automation components. I'm an engineer and would consider myself a very high-information buyer, and I spend a lot of time with the products after purchasing and hear about any reliability or performance issues that crop up in the machine for years after it ships, so I know what I've been sold. In that line of work, I'd say that there are 3 in 10 that drop by the office who are worth many times their commission - it's amazing to be able to describe your needs, and hear which of their products match those specifications plus considerations of requirements I hadn't realized, how their other customers are using the devices, know which are stocked/standard and when you've generated a parametric part number that's never been written before. But some of them are not really much more useful than the parametric catalog, and a couple of them just need to give up the engineering sales and switch to a car dealership or multi-level marketing scam.
  - fouc 6y ago
    I'd almost call that style of salesmanship as something like an "account representative" or perhaps there's a better word for it. But it's someone with intimate knowledge of the industry, of the other customers, and works closely with the customer and even educates the customer.
    - toomanybeersies 6y ago
      I've heard them called Sales Engineers before. They're usually technical employees or engineers before they get into sales, and carry their technical knowledge and industry expertise into a sales role.
- steveeq1 6y ago
  I've read many books on "selling" and I've also been a business owner for 12-years and dealt with salesmen quite heavily during this period. I know all the tactics, in other words. And I've never met a single sales person within those 12-years that did not resort to dirty tricks. Not. A. Single. One.
  - vincnetas 6y ago
    Could you share most common dirty tricks for ones who have little experience?
    - ddrt 6y ago
      Sure can, sonny Jim! And if you sign up to my newsletter and pay the minimal cost for my free ebook you too can know all the secrets to sales.
    - steveeq1 6y ago
      This book lists a lot of them: https://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Power-Negotiating-15th-Anniversary-ebook/dp/B07JMQBZKH/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=secrets+of+power+negotiating&qid=1588403021&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Power-Negotiating-15th-Annive... I encourage every entrepeneur to read this, because you'll see them time-and-time again. Most of the tactics are used to "get what you want", as they say, but also making the other side convinved they "won". Where they presumably come back and do it again to you. It relies on cheap psychological tactics. As a business-owner, 100% of the salesmen I dealt with used these same tactics. Identifying the tactic and calling it out usually neutralizes the tactic with the salesmen. But as an arbitrary example, anchoring numbers. They'll show you an insanely expensive first solution. And then later lead you to a merely overpriced-solution. But the second ones seems "cheap" because they are judging it from perspective of the first price solution.
BurningFrog 6y ago
Sales people in general do important work and earn the money they're paid. Car sales people are a special case, they're protected by tons of regulations, so you have to deal with one.
- steveeq1 6y ago
  I've read many books on "selling" and I've also been a business owner for 12-years and dealt with salesmen quite heavily during this period. I know all the tactics, in other words. And I've never met a single sales person within those 12-years that did not resort to dirty tricks. Not. A. Single. One.
- kwhitefoot 6y ago
  > you have to deal with one. But you don't have to play the game by their rules. After all you are the one with the money, you can just take it elsewhere. If you are buying a new car it's not as if they are selling some rare commodity that only they have. When they start bullshitting tell them to cut it out or you will leave; and make sure you carry out the threat if they keep trying to pull the wool over your eyes. And make sure that you actually know what you want and what it is worth to you so that you don't get distracted by shiny irrelevancies.

sjg007 6y ago

I’d report that to the manufacturer and your local attorney general. It should at least be filed under price gouging laws.

chrischen 6y ago

What economic value, or what problem, is a car salesman solving? Price discrimination as a service? And if they were really necessary why does Tesla not need them?

LordFast 6y ago
None, but I believe they hold political power both in terms of dealership associations and also in terms of bargaining rights from manufacturers. It's an outdated system that should have been dead a decade ago, but not yet.
- pdonis 6y ago
  > It's an outdated system that should have been dead a decade ago Longer than that, I would say. I have not bought a single car where the dealer added any value to the process at all. And I've been buying cars for three decades now.
  - gwicks56 6y ago
    I am usually more up to speed on the features and options of the vehicle than the person selling it to me. I think they exist to rip people like my Mum off, who think because the nice man advises she really does need the AWD version for inner city life, she should pay the extra $3k, as it's "safer".
    - newyankee 6y ago
      When i bought my last SUV i actually changed my preference from one popular Japanese brand to another because although the salesman at large Japanese dealer (Toyota) was cool, i had to give a small feedback session with his boss about what influenced my choice. The funny part of the story is that the original salesman was a UK origin American and the boss was Asian origin American (point being they were not from a small city or anything). I was so pissed off by the Boss' line of questioning that i actually changed my decision. I realized in my US stay of many years that a lot of economy is rent-seeking like everywhere. Dealers primarily exist as ICE cars needed maintenance and legacy reasons. However it is a pity that they cannot be disrupted. I have not had experience with platforms like Carvana but i avoid used cars from people because i have had bad experiences before.

sabujp 6y ago

tried carmax?

Bubbadoo 6y ago

With slackening demand for many products that might be considered more discretionary, we're going to see a unprecedented move by producers to maintain price pressure. Additionally, we presently have over 30 million people who are out of work and that's just what U3 is reporting. As you point out, there aren't going to be many people in a position to buy cars, electronics, home improvements, etc. Oh and those trillions of $ the government is hard at work giving away is neither going to the businesses they say they want to help nor you, the citizen. In fact, almost all of the government's pandemic actions really haven't helped those who really have a need. On the non-discretionary front, various food items are reportedly in short-supply. Nothing is further from the truth. But with 80% of the restaurants down (a rumored 40% says they're closed for good), many distributors are out of business. Milk, beef, poultry should be seeing huge deflationary price moves. But by faking the shortages, the producers keep prices artificially high or even higher than pre-pandemic. For more info on how this turns out, please research the fall of the Roman Empire.

nick_kline 6y ago
I think it's true though that the places that used to make food in bulk are struggling to repackage their food for consumers to buy in smaller quantities, that can certainly lead to fewer foods available. so there is potential for wasting enough food that leads to shortages, but there is a real loss of market potential for those farmers that were selling foods in bulk to restaurants.
pokoleo 6y ago
Respectfully disagree about the food situation. The supply chain is bifurcated between industrial supply (e.g. restaurants) and personal use (e.g. grocery). Industrial consumption has flatlined, nobody's going out. Personal consumption is through the roof -- which is where the shortages are coming from. Manufacturing cannot switch over fast enough, which is what is causing this glut.
- ryguytilidie 6y ago
  I've found that restaurants are getting better at fixing this. We've seen a shortage of flour and eggs at our local market, but we got takeout from a local restaurant the other night and they offered us eggs, flour and milk at a completely reasonable price for a win for all. Obviously not everyone can do this, but it seems like people are adapting at least!

nick_kline 6y ago

Please tell us more. I imagine you said "reality contradicts your statement" in some way.

sxcurry 6y ago
We said we wouldn't pay it, and negotiated a price nicely below MSRP. They caved very quickly - not sure why they even bothered trying.
- cbg0 6y ago
  > not sure why they even bothered trying. Because not everyone is willing/able to negotiate and even if this tactic only works on 10% of people that buy a car, that's still a nice commission for the sales guy.

lostcolony 6y ago

Hoping you laughed in his face and told him to drop the agreed upon price by another $2k or you walk.

rasz 6y ago
Nah, he even got the extra TruCoat.

jeffdavis 6y ago

"A shortage? Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. I don't want to be a hoarder or anything. We will be on our way and leave this car for someone who really needs it. Please call me back when inventories have returned to normal."

ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago

Why did you even go through with the deal after having been treated in such a manner?