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> Often some beaten up thing they probably paid €30-200 for at a flea market or bike shop In Belgium, Belgian people buy mostly new ones in the range of 500-10

> Often some beaten up thing they probably paid €30-200 for at a flea market or bike shop In Belgium, Belgian people buy mostly new ones in the range of 500-1000. People who don't earn much or students, buy the cheap/used bikes you mentioned. Electrical bikes are > 2000 € and pretty popular. In general, a whole family can bike together and it's very popular during the summer. We can bike were-ever we want during Covid as long as it's in the 25 km. range. I actually have 2 bikes ( 1 normal and 1 race bike) and a bike lending subscription when friends come over ( 1 € / bike / 24 hours for 12€ / year)

Aeolun 7y ago
> 1 € / bike / 24 hours for 12€ / year) At that price point it becomes hard to justify owning a bike yourself...
- greeniron 7y ago
  unless they're really bad bikes
  - brenden2 7y ago
    I've ridden them, they're not bad, but it's better to have your own.
- egypturnash 7y ago
  If you bike every weekday: (52 weeks/year * 5 days/week * 1€/day) + 12 = 272€. Add in however much you think these bits of hassle are worth: • various amounts of time spent looking for a bike, especially if you go somewhere they don't tend to cluster and someone else took the one you're using • bikeshare bikes are typically kind of heavy and clunky, possibly with solid tires that don't blow out but transmit every bump in the road to you • bikeshare bikes are usually one-size-fits-all, which I guess is fine if you're the perfectly average size, but they're always too small for me; an improperly-sized bike is harder to ride and can create more strain on your body And of course you can subtract maintenance costs, I'll pull 50€ out of my ass as a yearly number for that.
  - lostlogin 7y ago
    > bikeshare bikes are usually one-size-fits-all, which I guess is fine if you're the perfectly average size. I think they are tiny. I have wondered how they got this so wrong, but decided that it must be intentional. It prevents long journeys and limits the frequency of curb hopping and other damage causing activity.
    - djannzjkzxn 7y ago
      It seems safer for a big person to ride a too-small bike than a small person to ride a too-big bike.
    - usrusr 7y ago
      One size fits all cannot be average, it has to be tiny. You can fold a tall person into a small bike, but you can't stretch a short person onto a large bike.
      - lostlogin 7y ago
        There seemed to be a series of Chinese companies that offered particularly small bikes in Paris. Ofo and Mobike were (are?) just tiny. Maybe they came from a market where the average person was significantly smaller? The bikes were pretty much unusable on a shallow incline if you were of even average height. For comparison, my 9 year old child has a bike that has a larger frame than those ones.
hyperman1 7y ago
500 euros is a tad expensive. Every few months, Belgian supermarkets like LIDL sell them for €250-300, and I see thes models everywhere. Mike is more expensive, but I bike to work every day.
com2kid 7y ago
One thing confused me about this. In major American cities bike theft is incredibly common, to the point that the police won't help at all. I've had bikes repeatedly stolen out of locked garages at home! I'd never buy a bike that was worth any reasonable amount of money, my commute pre-covid was a good candidate for an electric bike, but no way would I spend more than a 2 or 3 hundred dollars on something that will get stolen within 3 years. Is bike theft just less of a problem in Belgium?
- bluescrn 7y ago
  It’s certainly a massive problem in the UK. Stealing bikes is almost decriminalized by the fact that it’s too minor a crime for the police to take seriously. And there’s a complete lack of secure bike ‘parking’ space.
- ViViDboarder 7y ago
  I’m from America, but I visited Copenhagen a few years ago and was amazed by how many bikes there were. On top of it, most bikes were parked with only a wheel lock and not chained to anything.
  - gautamdivgi 7y ago
    You need a bike friendly road network. Where I am at in suburban Illinois, I have a 45 - 55 mph lane with no shoulder and no continuous sidewalk. There is no way I'm risking life and limb to commute on that with my bike. On the other hand there are multiple trails which I can and will use now that spring/summer is here. I think the reluctance to use bikes for basic transport is more to do with lack of space on the road rather than theft.
    - touisteur 7y ago
      Theft plays a major role when you're thinking of buying an e-bike... When you're shelling 2+kEUR and you must put the fscking lock eeeeverytime you go somewhere, pause to buy bread, or whatever, and it's the same one or 2 minutes circus (first lock, then second lock, then don't forget the computer...). It gets tiring and discouraging.
asjw 7y ago
According to the stats 48% of Belgians own a bike, but only 8% of the trips are by bike. In China 37% of the population owns a bike, but in Shanghai 60% of the daily trips are by bike. There are more people riding bikes everyday in northern Italy (which has about 2 times the population of Belgium) than in Belgium, even though the amount of bikes per capita on a national level is much lower than Belgium. Numbers of bikes sold alone doesn't say much, more so because in some countries bikes are a status symbol, just like being member of a golf court is in Florida. Most do it because it says something about their life styles more than their likings.

Aeolun 7y ago

> 1 € / bike / 24 hours for 12€ / year) At that price point it becomes hard to justify owning a bike yourself...

greeniron 7y ago
unless they're really bad bikes
- brenden2 7y ago
  I've ridden them, they're not bad, but it's better to have your own.
egypturnash 7y ago
If you bike every weekday: (52 weeks/year * 5 days/week * 1€/day) + 12 = 272€. Add in however much you think these bits of hassle are worth: • various amounts of time spent looking for a bike, especially if you go somewhere they don't tend to cluster and someone else took the one you're using • bikeshare bikes are typically kind of heavy and clunky, possibly with solid tires that don't blow out but transmit every bump in the road to you • bikeshare bikes are usually one-size-fits-all, which I guess is fine if you're the perfectly average size, but they're always too small for me; an improperly-sized bike is harder to ride and can create more strain on your body And of course you can subtract maintenance costs, I'll pull 50€ out of my ass as a yearly number for that.
- lostlogin 7y ago
  > bikeshare bikes are usually one-size-fits-all, which I guess is fine if you're the perfectly average size. I think they are tiny. I have wondered how they got this so wrong, but decided that it must be intentional. It prevents long journeys and limits the frequency of curb hopping and other damage causing activity.
  - djannzjkzxn 7y ago
    It seems safer for a big person to ride a too-small bike than a small person to ride a too-big bike.
  - usrusr 7y ago
    One size fits all cannot be average, it has to be tiny. You can fold a tall person into a small bike, but you can't stretch a short person onto a large bike.
    - lostlogin 7y ago
      There seemed to be a series of Chinese companies that offered particularly small bikes in Paris. Ofo and Mobike were (are?) just tiny. Maybe they came from a market where the average person was significantly smaller? The bikes were pretty much unusable on a shallow incline if you were of even average height. For comparison, my 9 year old child has a bike that has a larger frame than those ones.

hyperman1 7y ago

500 euros is a tad expensive. Every few months, Belgian supermarkets like LIDL sell them for €250-300, and I see thes models everywhere. Mike is more expensive, but I bike to work every day.

com2kid 7y ago

One thing confused me about this. In major American cities bike theft is incredibly common, to the point that the police won't help at all. I've had bikes repeatedly stolen out of locked garages at home! I'd never buy a bike that was worth any reasonable amount of money, my commute pre-covid was a good candidate for an electric bike, but no way would I spend more than a 2 or 3 hundred dollars on something that will get stolen within 3 years. Is bike theft just less of a problem in Belgium?

bluescrn 7y ago
It’s certainly a massive problem in the UK. Stealing bikes is almost decriminalized by the fact that it’s too minor a crime for the police to take seriously. And there’s a complete lack of secure bike ‘parking’ space.
ViViDboarder 7y ago
I’m from America, but I visited Copenhagen a few years ago and was amazed by how many bikes there were. On top of it, most bikes were parked with only a wheel lock and not chained to anything.
- gautamdivgi 7y ago
  You need a bike friendly road network. Where I am at in suburban Illinois, I have a 45 - 55 mph lane with no shoulder and no continuous sidewalk. There is no way I'm risking life and limb to commute on that with my bike. On the other hand there are multiple trails which I can and will use now that spring/summer is here. I think the reluctance to use bikes for basic transport is more to do with lack of space on the road rather than theft.
  - touisteur 7y ago
    Theft plays a major role when you're thinking of buying an e-bike... When you're shelling 2+kEUR and you must put the fscking lock eeeeverytime you go somewhere, pause to buy bread, or whatever, and it's the same one or 2 minutes circus (first lock, then second lock, then don't forget the computer...). It gets tiring and discouraging.

asjw 7y ago

According to the stats 48% of Belgians own a bike, but only 8% of the trips are by bike. In China 37% of the population owns a bike, but in Shanghai 60% of the daily trips are by bike. There are more people riding bikes everyday in northern Italy (which has about 2 times the population of Belgium) than in Belgium, even though the amount of bikes per capita on a national level is much lower than Belgium. Numbers of bikes sold alone doesn't say much, more so because in some countries bikes are a status symbol, just like being member of a golf court is in Florida. Most do it because it says something about their life styles more than their likings.