17 ms·
Automatic (Car Adapter) Shutting Down
- jmount 6y agoWhew, not Automattic (WordPress).
- vorpalhex 6y agoI panicked thinking this was the company behind Wordpress. It's not, it's just a car assistant thing.
- cordite 6y agoThey made my unit end of life, and then found themselves at end of life. This is IoT.
- ashtonkem 6y agoAnd that’s why the only IoT devices I’ll buy use Zigbee (ZWave works too). You can’t shut down a device that I control internet access to. Sadly this doesn’t scale, it takes specialized skills and time to build out home automation using these technologies.
- jcutrell 6y agoIt’s gotten easier with Home Assistant but still, even as an engineer I prefer to use the easy APIs for these things sometimes than run my own support system for the Z-stuff
- ashtonkem 6y agoHA isn’t the hardest system I’ve ever setup, but I doubt many non-engineers could do it. I’m thankful it exists, but I’d love to see if someone can create something easier for the general public to setup and use.
- joshstrange 6y agoSame here, I wouldn't touch wifi-devices unless I there was no other alternative (not been the case yet with the exception of my robot vacuum but it runs on a schedule anyways and I manually trigger it 1-5 times a year). Z-wave all the way. I'm currently a SmartThings user but I'm sort of considering switching to Hubitat. Probably wait till my existing hub dies or ST does something shady/anti-consumer.
- ashtonkem 6y agoI’m using Zigbee2mqtt on HomeAssistant. Harder to setup than smart things, but even more personal control.
- thrwn_frthr_awy 6y agoWhat did they make? Their site doesn't have any info on their products.
- cordite 6y agoan ODB port device, which connects with bluetooth to your phone. It records how gas-efficient your driving is, as well as beeping when you go over 80 mph or have a hard break. It tried to gamify your driving behavior to be more efficient and safe. And I think it was effective but from the start it's been tied to the cloud. At the start they'd send weekly reports of driving behavior, congratulating or saying what could be done better. As well as tracking (with location data on the phone) where you drove. I once used it to expense milage for a conference. However the emails soon stopped coming as frequently or reliably, then a year later when the emails stopped they said they were discontinuing my unit, encouraging me to buy the new one. I did not, as they failed to provide me with the service they promised. EDIT: to clarify, the phone app would start upon bluetooth connection, and send the data to Automatic. I'm not sure if it was realtime or not.
- apple4ever 6y agoThat's the first version. The second and third versions connected directly over the cell networks. The second version allowed third party apps over bluetooth. The third version removed that feature.
- wh-uws 6y agoI just bought one of these about a month ago, I read about how the company had just discontinued the old version of the product in the reviews on Google play of their app figured I'd have some decent time with it since they just rolled out the version I bought... Jokes on me! Any chance there's some way we could get the data out of them with something open source?
- shervinafshar 6y agoThey do seem to have an export feature[1]. The dashboard has been "Loading trips..." for minutes to download into a CSV a measly number 2K trips I had. I'm sorry that people are losing jobs over such closure, but usually the writing is on the wall. [1]: https://help.automatic.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000599847-How-do-I-download-export-my-driving-data- https://help.automatic.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000599847-Ho...
- mrlambchop 6y agoSorry - the servers are overloaded right now with everyone grabbing their data. And yes, we did scale things up! Hitting RDS limitations :(
- rohansingh 6y agoI'm working on a IoT device and this is something that my cofounders and I have discussed a fair bit. While we want to succeed, we know that most businesses fail, and we don't want to put out products that become waste. We're working on mitigating this by having an open hardware platform. The idea being that, even if our cloud service isn't up, you can re-flash the hardware to do anything you want. And you can use our documentation to do it so you don't have to reverse-engineer everything from scratch. I'd like to see more companies follow this approach. I've at least a handful of IoT devices that are effectively bricked, which sucks because I know they have decent and usable innards.
- toomuchtodo 6y agoYou should also consider open sourcing your cloud service in the event of shutdown. A repo with a Dockerfile should be sufficient, that could be turned into Digital Ocean droplet configs and similar one-click launches.
- LeifCarrotson 6y agoDo you think that Automatic needed to have a cloud service? Their primary use case seems to have been uploading mileage data to a variety of expense reporting systems. I don't see any reason that has to go from the OBDII dongle through the now-discontinued Automatic servers, and only then pass to the actual endpoint. These IoT devices (and especially the phones and PCs that typically act as intermediaries) are abundantly capable of storing the configuration data and doing the API calls necessary to communicate with online services. Is it just about the control?
- rohansingh 6y agoIt's probably more about control than cost. Our company's product is similar to Automatic's, in that, in theory, you could have everything be done on-device and not need a proprietary backend at all. Other than the fact that this is difficult to keep up-to-date and working, it increases the hardware cost significantly. Instead of having a very cheap microcontroller handling everything, you might need something more capable and more expensive. Development cost goes up too, since instead of writing your integrations in Python, Go, JS, or whatever, you need to write your integrations on your embedded system.
- webbdev 6y agoIt's hard to believe they weren't acquired. The amount of driving data they have must be huge.
- CrazedGeek 6y agoThey were, SiriusXM acquired them just over three years ago: https://blog.automatic.com/automatic-siriusxm-4dfbc9a6885c https://blog.automatic.com/automatic-siriusxm-4dfbc9a6885c
- toomuchtodo 6y agoSiriusXM not shutting down yet?
- TylerE 6y agoHighly unlikely. The big money sink is already spent (launching the satelites).
- runako 6y agoThe satellites are likely much cheaper than the ongoing costs for content. It looks like they are spending over $2B annually on content fees. They could launch a lot of satellites with $2B per year.
- toomuchtodo 6y agoSpaceX should strike a deal with Spotify (StarLink “Constellation” as a competitor to SiriusXM)!
- gremlinsinc 6y agoWhy would spotify even need spacex? I mean... it's just the internet...they already have access to that, and so does everyone else. 4g connectivity to your car is probably simple and could be done if needed or a lot of people just link their phone to the radio.
- RubenvanE 6y agoWow, the service stops on May 28th, less than a month away. Just out of curiosity, have there been more (relatively successful) companies with a paid subscription plan that announced that they would, within a couple of weeks, shut their services down? As an outsider it seems quite drastic to me, given that the daily costs of keeping the servers running a bit longer is negligible.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- atonse 6y agoI haven't read the article but I wonder how GeoTab worked into this (for the small fleet customers, large fleets would never consider this product)
- whalesalad 6y agoIf anyone has a device they’d like to sell, please contact me (in bio). [EDIT] Thank you to the wonderful hackers who reached out to me. I think that I am all set now.
- mrlambchop 6y agoIf you manage to hack this, let me know (retiring VP Eng here)! The latest device contains a custom ASIC with hardware security :)
- borgel 6y agoWow, an ASIC is a big step! I'm impressed you needed to hit that level of (cost down, I assume?). Or was it to get better HW security, perhaps to use it for billing? Anyway, I had an original Bluetooth Automatic until I upgraded to a Pro when it was launched. I love them! Sorry to hear this is the end.
- mrlambchop 6y agoVehicle compatibility was really the key - building a cross bar that allowed any pin to be mapped for any function (i.e. CAN on any combo of pins). We included a hardware protocol decoder and a ton of electrical safety items as well as security and reliability tools. 200MHz processor, 2MB flash and 256kB of ram in a single QFN package. A great project to work on! One career highlight for sure.
- borgel 6y agoAhh, interesting. I can see how that combination of features would be easier to fit in an ASIC than as discreet components in the tiny dongle. Pretty cool hardware combination! Can you comment on what the safety/security/reliability blocks were?
- mrlambchop 6y agoA couple of examples of hard problems might be the best approach. - loss of ground A vehicle OBD connector can at times, loose its GND pin. There are actually two GND pins - chassis and electrical that can sometimes disagree. Its possible for one of either of them to either (a) loose connectivity (b) bias towards the signal level or head towards a negative signal level (-2v was our typical observation). To prevent an OBD protocol pin from dumping current down the channel, a complex HW/SW solution is needed to monitor and react quickly to prevent downstream ECUs from being fried. - security We built a custom debug tool based on CM-DAP (ARM debugger technology) that included OOB security paths to unlock a device for re-flashing / debugging. I think we made 500-1k of these in total for manufacturing/RMA/logistic purposes. This was super fun to work on :)
- PanMan 6y agoI always really liked this approach: Instead of every car smart by replacing them, make dumb cars (a bit) smarter with a connected device. Even once pitched a competitor to this service. That said, I'm wondering what the impact of Covid was on this: A regular SAAS service shouldn't see a huge impact, or would all customers cancel when not using their car for a month?
- giarc 6y agoI suspect they weren't doing well and are using this as a cover. With many states opening up as we speak, the could have ridden out a small down turn and come out the other end. You might argue that a lot of people are going to be without work and won't be buying new cars in the next while, however, were those their customers in the first place?
- throwanem 6y agoI've been thinking for a while now that we could expect to see a lot of "incredible journeys" for which COVID-19 is both the stated reason, and a very useful cover for the true causes. Not speculating on whether this is one of those, but I'll admit I wouldn't be astonished if it were.
- Kikawala 6y agoThe adapter may still function over Bluetooth to read SAE PID [1] data using OBD Fusion[1] or a similar app. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs [2] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/obd-fusion/id650684932 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/obd-fusion/id650684932
- jdminhbg 6y agoAccording to their App Store description: > We no longer recommend using the Automatic car adapter due to reliability issues. Do you happen to know if this is real or just a CYA? I'd pay $10 to extend the life of my adapter, but not if I needed to buy another device anyway.
- mrlambchop 6y agoFormer VP Eng @ Automatic here :( There is an auth component needed for that BT connectivity to work - once the token expires, the BT connection won't authenticate anymore. i.e. if you uninstall the BT apps, change phone etc...
- jdminhbg 6y agoThanks for the info, sorry about the outcome. I enjoyed having mine.
- Terretta 6y agoWhy wouldn't you have pushed an update that removed the DRM?
- floatingatoll 6y ago"Former"
- soylentcola 6y agoOh that really sucks. I have an older one (Gen 1 I think) that a friend gave me when he upgraded. I don't really make much use of it but it was nice being able to see basic OBD codes the one time my car was acting up and the check engine light was on. Helped me figure out the likely issue before even taking it to the mechanic (saving time spent having them figure out the issue). I could surely get a different BT ODB reader but I already have this one.
- blakesterz 6y agoI'd imagine that domain name is worth some serious case. Automattic (WordPress) and many others would probably love to scoop that up. I wonder if that's their most valuable asset now?
- partiallypro 6y agoI was just thinking that Automattic should buy the domain and just point it to theirs. I guess it doesn't matter though, most people don't know what Automattic is, they know what Wordpress is.
- hardtke 6y agoAutomatic Labs is owned by SiriusXM (market cap $25B).
- cocktailpeanuts 6y agoAutomattic probably derived from "Matt" (The name of the founder) so probably better to keep using the brand.
- jabberwik 6y agoAnyone know a good alternative to this that isn't meant to be fleet-scale? Getting OBD data over Bluetooth is widespread enough, but their service also made it super easy to generate mileage expenses. Also downloading a CSV of all my trips made for some fun data crunching. I'd love to keep those things going even if it means self-hosting something.
- sahaskatta 6y agoWhat cars do you have? I'm the founder of Smartcar.com and we might be able to help. No OBD devices needed.
- MK_Dev 6y agoI have an older unsupported device still connected to my car. Any open source ideas for it?
- ricardobeat 6y ago> With fewer consumers purchasing and leasing vehicles and drivers on the road, we unfortunately do not see a path forward for our business. Said like nobody will ever drive cars again. I'm perplexed at how quickly these businesses are deciding to fold.
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y agoThere's very little money on the hardware space... plus if you're not charging an ongoing premium it may not be worth it. What upsets me is seeing this hardware just become e-waste. I really dislike seeing perfectly functional hardware become unusable just because the company folds or something newer comes out. I ranted about the iphone 4 and how it's no longer possible to build software on that platform, especially since it's low power and could be used for any small project. My old Nexus 7 is still kicking (just slooow)
- rhacker 6y agoMost startups rely on industry growth. If you have 100 drivers today and 110 tomorrow, you will have the climate for startups. If you have 100 drivers today, and 90 tomorrow, you only have room for the entrenched players.
- mosburger 6y agoI used to work (sort of) in this space. A lot of the functionality that companies want to tie to their ODB hardware is getting rolled into the cars themselves by the auto manufacturers and app platforms like CarPlay and Android Auto. Companies like this had 5-10 years before facing obsolescence.
- vondur 6y agoI think it's a cop out. Sirius XM purchased them and then pivoted to rental car fleets. Guess that didn't work out, so blaming the Covid economy is an easy way out.
- apple4ever 6y agoI was nervous Sirius would shut them down. Guess my worry was not misplaced.
- willswire 6y agoWow. This is hard to believe. Big-time Automatic user - have been for about 6 years. The crash-alert feature provides peace of mind in a somewhat older vehicle. If anyone else knows an alternative, please share!
- kirillzubovsky 6y agoPerhaps next time someone on HN is complaining about "yet another subscription" business, send them to this and 10k other posts as a reminder how good businesses die without proper revenue.
- ianwalter 6y agoCouldn't that go both ways though? Why would I want to sign up for "yet another subscription" when they can just go belly up and render my investment worthless (vs an alternative with a one-time payment)?
- jandrese 6y agoIf it had been a "buy the whole package outright, no cloud nonsense" service then having the company go belly up wouldn't render your purchase useless. Having a subscription means it can disappear on you at any point.
- ThrowawayR2 6y agoBut this subscription business died so doesn't it demonstrate the opposite of what you're saying? In the good old days, businesses thrived perfectly well off of one-time purchases of products.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- webbdev 6y agoI sent an email to their support team asking if they had plans to open source their apps and they said, "there are no plans".
- ilikeatari 6y agoThank you for doing that. I really wish they did open source their apps also.
- kylehotchkiss 6y agoWhat a shame, it was a nice piece of hardware that could have had a few more years of life.
- nickthemagicman 6y agoI wonder how many companies are going to be claiming covid related issues to mask other deeper issues.
- baggachipz 6y ago> mask I see what you did there :D
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- nradov 6y agoJust buy the Torque Pro app for $5 and buy a cheap OBD2 Bluetooth adapter to go with it. No subscription needed. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torq...
- floatingatoll 6y agoThat only replaces the "vehicle data inspection" use cases, not the other use cases such as "call me when my vehicle is crashed by my kid".
- apple4ever 6y agoThis really sucks. I have two Automatics, and they are just awesome. I've already used them to diagnose car issues, and tracking is great. Luckily I got a lot of use out of them, but definitely said to see them go.
- cameldrv 6y agoThis sucks. I use Automatic to track business miles. Is there a good alternative that's not phone based?
- JackPo 6y agoAnyone have an alternative that they use for GPS tracking? I have 3 of these, argh.
- joelgarzatx 6y agoWould be great to get an export that preserves the image of the trip map showing the path, even as a zipped folder full of thumbnails. Now do I write a script to scrape a screen shot of the 1700 trips, or write some code to use the exported encoded polyline (lose brake/mph/accel data on map)?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]