7 ms·

I'm not sure I would blame NAT. You can easily disable that. What you can't disable is the asymmetry of consumer internet connections (upload << download) and

I'm not sure I would blame NAT. You can easily disable that. What you can't disable is the asymmetry of consumer internet connections (upload << download) and the fact that most consumer devices are not running (or connected to the internet) 24/7.

pjc50 7y ago
Also security: if consumer PCs were open to the internet, they would be constantly getting breached in even bigger numbers.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  Consumer PCs are not the real issue by and large, IoT crap that can't even be updated is way more problematic. Having NAT by default helps screen out attacks to those devices.
  - api 7y ago
    Not NAT. Firewalls. You don't need NAT to have a firewall.
    - tialaramex 7y ago
      Yup. There is no NAT in my home, but there is a firewall. Every device in my home has public IPs, but some of them aren't allowed to talk to the outside world or are restricted on who can / can't talk to them and how.
      - codethief 7y ago
        If I may ask, what's your setup? What router (and what software on it) are you using?
kaetemi 7y ago
Carrier grade NAT...
- codethief 7y ago
  Sure, when you're talking about mobile devices. (Or has it already become a thing with DSL, too?) In any case, the issue started much earlier, I'd say.
  - mercora 7y ago
    maybe its not very common everywhere but here in Germany i have seen multiple ISPs deploying DS-Lite which means you will get CGNAT for IPv4 networks. whats worse is while if you demand a public IPv4 address you will get it you also wont get IPv6 connectivity anymore. why? no idea... Interestingly, if i happen to use my own DOCSIS modem i get a true DualStack solution so this is not a technical problem for them per se. However, doing so they will force you to use VoIP instead of the IMHO way more stable PacketCable you would get with their modem...
  - kaetemi 7y ago
    I have fiber with carrier grade NAT for some reason...
im3w1l 7y ago
Anything that requires a manual step will be at a huge disadvantage compared to something that doesn't. People have better things to do with their life than read router manuals.
- codethief 7y ago
  That's true. But this is a general problem. Even if you weren't sitting behind a NAT, you would still have to harden your firewall and so on if you wanted to run a server at home. So it's definitely not without work either way.
vel0city 7y ago
A huge part of the internet cannot just disable NAT. I experience carrier grade NAT from my LTE connection. I only get a single public IPv4 assigned from the two ISPs available at my apartment. How to I "disable" NAT when I only get a single IP but have many devices to connect?
yc12340 7y ago
> I'm not sure I would blame NAT. You can easily disable that This is predominately USA mentality. In the rest of the world widespread use of carrier-grade NAT predates mobile networks by decades. Many residential ISPs don't hand out public IPv4 addresses or require extra payment for them. Some of those ISPs got their first IP block (or even single address!) from someone and never bothered with whole "ask IANA for addresses" thing. It is multi-layer NAT all the way down.
- codethief 7y ago
  Hmmm I suppose my view is strongly biased then. I've lived outside the US most of my life and have always had my own IPv4 address at home. And sure, as IPv4 addresses are now exhausted, carrier-grade NAT is getting increasingly common. But I would have said the issue started way before that. > In the rest of the world widespread use of carrier-grade NAT predates mobile networks by decades. […] Some of those ISPs got their first IP block (or even single address!) from someone and never bothered with whole "ask IANA for addresses" thing. Do you happen to have a source here? Because carrier-grade NAT predating mobile networks by decades is news to me.

pjc50 7y ago

Also security: if consumer PCs were open to the internet, they would be constantly getting breached in even bigger numbers.

zozbot234 7y ago
Consumer PCs are not the real issue by and large, IoT crap that can't even be updated is way more problematic. Having NAT by default helps screen out attacks to those devices.
- api 7y ago
  Not NAT. Firewalls. You don't need NAT to have a firewall.
  - tialaramex 7y ago
    Yup. There is no NAT in my home, but there is a firewall. Every device in my home has public IPs, but some of them aren't allowed to talk to the outside world or are restricted on who can / can't talk to them and how.
    - codethief 7y ago
      If I may ask, what's your setup? What router (and what software on it) are you using?

kaetemi 7y ago

Carrier grade NAT...

codethief 7y ago
Sure, when you're talking about mobile devices. (Or has it already become a thing with DSL, too?) In any case, the issue started much earlier, I'd say.
- mercora 7y ago
  maybe its not very common everywhere but here in Germany i have seen multiple ISPs deploying DS-Lite which means you will get CGNAT for IPv4 networks. whats worse is while if you demand a public IPv4 address you will get it you also wont get IPv6 connectivity anymore. why? no idea... Interestingly, if i happen to use my own DOCSIS modem i get a true DualStack solution so this is not a technical problem for them per se. However, doing so they will force you to use VoIP instead of the IMHO way more stable PacketCable you would get with their modem...
- kaetemi 7y ago
  I have fiber with carrier grade NAT for some reason...

im3w1l 7y ago

Anything that requires a manual step will be at a huge disadvantage compared to something that doesn't. People have better things to do with their life than read router manuals.

codethief 7y ago
That's true. But this is a general problem. Even if you weren't sitting behind a NAT, you would still have to harden your firewall and so on if you wanted to run a server at home. So it's definitely not without work either way.

vel0city 7y ago

A huge part of the internet cannot just disable NAT. I experience carrier grade NAT from my LTE connection. I only get a single public IPv4 assigned from the two ISPs available at my apartment. How to I "disable" NAT when I only get a single IP but have many devices to connect?

yc12340 7y ago

> I'm not sure I would blame NAT. You can easily disable that This is predominately USA mentality. In the rest of the world widespread use of carrier-grade NAT predates mobile networks by decades. Many residential ISPs don't hand out public IPv4 addresses or require extra payment for them. Some of those ISPs got their first IP block (or even single address!) from someone and never bothered with whole "ask IANA for addresses" thing. It is multi-layer NAT all the way down.

codethief 7y ago
Hmmm I suppose my view is strongly biased then. I've lived outside the US most of my life and have always had my own IPv4 address at home. And sure, as IPv4 addresses are now exhausted, carrier-grade NAT is getting increasingly common. But I would have said the issue started way before that. > In the rest of the world widespread use of carrier-grade NAT predates mobile networks by decades. […] Some of those ISPs got their first IP block (or even single address!) from someone and never bothered with whole "ask IANA for addresses" thing. Do you happen to have a source here? Because carrier-grade NAT predating mobile networks by decades is news to me.