4 ms·

> Sorry to sound snarky, but the idea that homeschool kids are somehow socially stunted is a myth that needs to die. I'm sorry, but it's not a myth. It's somet

> Sorry to sound snarky, but the idea that homeschool kids are somehow socially stunted is a myth that needs to die. I'm sorry, but it's not a myth. It's something that can and does happen in many cases, depending pretty much entirely on the attitude of the parents. I was homeschooled. My religious parents viewed it as an opportunity to shelter me from the evils of the world. I now have social anxiety, difficulty relating to other people, an inability to make and keep friends, and several other mental health issues. The majority of "homeschooled" students I knew (and know) were barely homeschooled - starting in middle school or high school, most of their classes were taught co-operatively by other homeschooling parents, or paid community college professors looking for some extra money. (I took several math and science classes this way.) Full homeschooling (where every single "class" from K-12 is done in the home) needs to be undertaken with extreme caution, if at all, especially when the kids get past grade school, and need to be hearing the ideas and input of peers as they relate to the things they are learning. The also need to be having social experiences with peers many times per week, which becomes very difficult even for dedicated parents.

gliese1337 7y ago
It's something that can and does happen in many cases, depending pretty much entirely on the attitude of the parents. Or, in other words, it's not actually the homeschooling that is the problem. It's the attitudes of the parents. And it turns out that when you have cruddy parents, public-school outcomes aren't good either.
- bscphil 7y ago
  Well, yes, but it has the important difference that being in public school can hardly fail but to give you a certain minimum level of social skills and in most cases one or two friends at least. And on the other hand being homeschooled by bad parents can hardly fail to have a bad outcome for you. Also, can you use ">" to offset quotes instead of four spaces? Because HN uses that for code, it's not readable for mobile users.
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    Hmm, plenty of people have an awful time in state schools. Parents who are so bad they leave their kids to do their own education sometimes inadvertently give them a great environment in which to grow (but it seems super-rare). I think you're more right on this second part than on the first.
    - bscphil 7y ago
      > plenty of people have an awful time in state schools For sure, I'm not denying that, I'm just saying there's a difference between the possible outcome of having an awful time and being so socially abnormal that you get panicky talking to the cashier at the Burger King and can't make any friends.
      - gliese1337 7y ago
        In my experience, the worst possible outcomes in each case tip the other direction: I have never heard of a homeschool kid committing suicide because they were so unprepared for Burger King, but public school kids commit suicide because of how incredibly awful their social experience is all the time. The absolute worst-case, most socially-awkward homeschooler I ever met ended up just fine after a couple of years of college, which fully made up for any socialization deficiencies he may have suffered from being isolated from his public school peers.
        watwut 7y ago
        There were multiple sever abuse cases children in families where kids were homeschooled to cover abuse. It happens.
        astura 7y ago
        https://hsinvisiblechildren.org https://hsinvisiblechildren.org >Our preliminary research suggests that homeschooled children are at a greater risk of dying from child abuse than are traditionally schooled children. https://coloradosun.com/2018/10/08/homeschool-child-abuse-colorado/ https://coloradosun.com/2018/10/08/homeschool-child-abuse-co... >In a 2014 study published in the Journal of Child & Adolescent Trauma, Knox seemed to confirm that. Examining cases of severe and fatal child abuse, Knox found that 47 percent of the young victims had been removed from school to be home schooled
pbhjpbhj 7y ago
Are social problems more prevalent amongst homeschooled kids, due to homeschooling? We don't do education otherwise, we wanted to flexischool (UK) but the teachers vetoed it. However, we know quite a few families who homeschool and they have an incredible bunch of socially active, artistically skilled, intellectually capable kids. Socially, they seem to be ahead of other groups, to me, because (I contend) they get/got a lot of inter-age interaction. There's probably a lot of selection effects too. My own kids seem, in contrast, to have gotten more out of clubs fitted in around schooling, as opposed to their socially fulfilling time seeming to be more co-terminous with educational experience. One thing I'm concerned about with school is that up until 12yo the kids only regular day-time contact with men is the janitor ... it's a slightly orthogonal issue, but I guess in general "you can't pick your teachers" applies for most people and even in our pretty nice neighborhood a couple of the teachers have had lasting negative effects on our kids.
- bscphil 7y ago
  > Are social problems more prevalent amongst homeschooled kids, due to homeschooling? My guess is yes, but I have no direct evidence of that. The thing I think I can say with certainty is that there's a long tail of parental effects on socialization for homeschooled kids. Very severely conservative or religious parents are very likely to have kids with these problems to a moderate or strong degree. And quite a few homeschooling parents in the United States are like this - you might very well be in a liberal or urban bubble if you don't see this in your local homeschooling community. > My own kids seem, in contrast, to have gotten more out of clubs fitted in around schooling I don't mean to sound like I'm totally opposed to homeschooling. I actually think it can be much better than public schools with the right parents, the right environment, the right amount of money, and so on. I'm not clear on exactly how old your kids are, but I would warn that I do think it's significantly harder to encourage the best social development once they become teenagers. > a couple of the teachers By "teachers" I assume this means you are hiring outside instructors or doing co-op classes with other homeschooling families where your kids and there kids are being taught at the same time. This is a very different kind of experience and not what I referred to as "full homeschooling" in another comment in this thread.
PebblesRox 7y ago
I can relate to your experience growing up homeschooled and dealing with social struggles as an adult. I don’t think homeschooling automatically leads to these issues, but I agree that there’s a risk and parents need to be mindful of the impact of their decisions. I agree with everything you’re saying about social experiences. I think making sure kids have plenty of opportunities to interact with people outside of their immediate circle is super important. It’s just as doable with homeschooling as with traditional schooling but it requires more intentionality because it might not happen naturally in the same way. On the other hand, I can understand the frustration that homeschooling parents feel when other people assume that homeschooling will cause their kids to grow up weird. I’m also annoyed when a discussion about the pros and cons of choosing to homeschool one’s kids leads to people citing cases of child abuse (further down the thread; I’m not talking about any of your comments). The fact that some parents homeschool as a cover for abuse isn’t relevant to my decision on whether or not homeschooling is a good path for my kids. I plan to homeschool my kids. My parents did a decent job with me, but I can do much better with my kids (in part because of my experience with my parents’ choices).

gliese1337 7y ago

It's something that can and does happen in many cases, depending pretty much entirely on the attitude of the parents. Or, in other words, it's not actually the homeschooling that is the problem. It's the attitudes of the parents. And it turns out that when you have cruddy parents, public-school outcomes aren't good either.

bscphil 7y ago
Well, yes, but it has the important difference that being in public school can hardly fail but to give you a certain minimum level of social skills and in most cases one or two friends at least. And on the other hand being homeschooled by bad parents can hardly fail to have a bad outcome for you. Also, can you use ">" to offset quotes instead of four spaces? Because HN uses that for code, it's not readable for mobile users.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  Hmm, plenty of people have an awful time in state schools. Parents who are so bad they leave their kids to do their own education sometimes inadvertently give them a great environment in which to grow (but it seems super-rare). I think you're more right on this second part than on the first.
  - bscphil 7y ago
    > plenty of people have an awful time in state schools For sure, I'm not denying that, I'm just saying there's a difference between the possible outcome of having an awful time and being so socially abnormal that you get panicky talking to the cashier at the Burger King and can't make any friends.
    - gliese1337 7y ago
      In my experience, the worst possible outcomes in each case tip the other direction: I have never heard of a homeschool kid committing suicide because they were so unprepared for Burger King, but public school kids commit suicide because of how incredibly awful their social experience is all the time. The absolute worst-case, most socially-awkward homeschooler I ever met ended up just fine after a couple of years of college, which fully made up for any socialization deficiencies he may have suffered from being isolated from his public school peers.
      - watwut 7y ago
        There were multiple sever abuse cases children in families where kids were homeschooled to cover abuse. It happens.
      - astura 7y ago
        https://hsinvisiblechildren.org https://hsinvisiblechildren.org >Our preliminary research suggests that homeschooled children are at a greater risk of dying from child abuse than are traditionally schooled children. https://coloradosun.com/2018/10/08/homeschool-child-abuse-colorado/ https://coloradosun.com/2018/10/08/homeschool-child-abuse-co... >In a 2014 study published in the Journal of Child & Adolescent Trauma, Knox seemed to confirm that. Examining cases of severe and fatal child abuse, Knox found that 47 percent of the young victims had been removed from school to be home schooled

pbhjpbhj 7y ago

Are social problems more prevalent amongst homeschooled kids, due to homeschooling? We don't do education otherwise, we wanted to flexischool (UK) but the teachers vetoed it. However, we know quite a few families who homeschool and they have an incredible bunch of socially active, artistically skilled, intellectually capable kids. Socially, they seem to be ahead of other groups, to me, because (I contend) they get/got a lot of inter-age interaction. There's probably a lot of selection effects too. My own kids seem, in contrast, to have gotten more out of clubs fitted in around schooling, as opposed to their socially fulfilling time seeming to be more co-terminous with educational experience. One thing I'm concerned about with school is that up until 12yo the kids only regular day-time contact with men is the janitor ... it's a slightly orthogonal issue, but I guess in general "you can't pick your teachers" applies for most people and even in our pretty nice neighborhood a couple of the teachers have had lasting negative effects on our kids.

bscphil 7y ago
> Are social problems more prevalent amongst homeschooled kids, due to homeschooling? My guess is yes, but I have no direct evidence of that. The thing I think I can say with certainty is that there's a long tail of parental effects on socialization for homeschooled kids. Very severely conservative or religious parents are very likely to have kids with these problems to a moderate or strong degree. And quite a few homeschooling parents in the United States are like this - you might very well be in a liberal or urban bubble if you don't see this in your local homeschooling community. > My own kids seem, in contrast, to have gotten more out of clubs fitted in around schooling I don't mean to sound like I'm totally opposed to homeschooling. I actually think it can be much better than public schools with the right parents, the right environment, the right amount of money, and so on. I'm not clear on exactly how old your kids are, but I would warn that I do think it's significantly harder to encourage the best social development once they become teenagers. > a couple of the teachers By "teachers" I assume this means you are hiring outside instructors or doing co-op classes with other homeschooling families where your kids and there kids are being taught at the same time. This is a very different kind of experience and not what I referred to as "full homeschooling" in another comment in this thread.

PebblesRox 7y ago

I can relate to your experience growing up homeschooled and dealing with social struggles as an adult. I don’t think homeschooling automatically leads to these issues, but I agree that there’s a risk and parents need to be mindful of the impact of their decisions. I agree with everything you’re saying about social experiences. I think making sure kids have plenty of opportunities to interact with people outside of their immediate circle is super important. It’s just as doable with homeschooling as with traditional schooling but it requires more intentionality because it might not happen naturally in the same way. On the other hand, I can understand the frustration that homeschooling parents feel when other people assume that homeschooling will cause their kids to grow up weird. I’m also annoyed when a discussion about the pros and cons of choosing to homeschool one’s kids leads to people citing cases of child abuse (further down the thread; I’m not talking about any of your comments). The fact that some parents homeschool as a cover for abuse isn’t relevant to my decision on whether or not homeschooling is a good path for my kids. I plan to homeschool my kids. My parents did a decent job with me, but I can do much better with my kids (in part because of my experience with my parents’ choices).