7 ms·

>as John Gruber put it on Daring Fireball, “Amazon isn’t hurting for revenue (especially now), but they are hurting for trust.” This is empirically false. Amaz

by koboll 6y ago

>as John Gruber put it on Daring Fireball, “Amazon isn’t hurting for revenue (especially now), but they are hurting for trust.” This is empirically false. Amazon is the second most-trusted brand in America. https://morningconsult.com/most-trusted-brands/ https://morningconsult.com/most-trusted-brands/ It's wild how easily SV types will tweet things like "No one trusts Amazon!" when the reality outside the Bay Area is so radically and demonstrably opposite.

tantalor 6y ago
Is this Simpon's paradox at work? Google is more trusted than Amazon in Gen-Z Adults, Millennials, and Gen-X, but overall Amazon beats Google. Google doesn't even make the top-25 of Boomers, but Amazon is #11. That's a little weird; does it explain the overall result?
- three_seagrass 6y ago
  People trust the brands they grow up with. For example, Boomers trust Betty Crocker, Heinze, and AAA, which do not even show up for younger generations.
  - RonanTheGrey 6y ago
    I dunno, I'm a millennial and I grew up with all 3 of those featuring prominently in my childhood. Although, really only in my childhood..
- jldugger 6y ago
  I feellike there isn't enough dimensionality in the data for Simpson's paradox explain that.
freeopinion 6y ago
Trusted by less than 40% of people. "Most trusted" does not seem to be a high bar. In fact it doesn't even seem to mean "generally trusted." I would say that they are hurting for trust, right along with everyone else.
- miglmj 6y ago
  Something like consumer trust only makes sense if compared relatively to competitors, otherwise you're making a statement about the general public rather than about Amazon.
nano81 6y ago
The context of that quote is talking about the trust of merchants which sell products on Amazon, not the trust of consumers (which is what your link is). Consumers of course don't care if Amazon rips off merchants.
- Miraste 6y ago
  As long as consumers trust Amazon and don't trust the merchants, it doesn't matter. They have to use Amazon anyway. This is presented as a strategic problem for Amazon, but it isn't.
noizejoy 6y ago
“sucks less” does not mean “doesn’t suck” (under 40% trust) Also amusing: weather forecasting in the top 5.
Reedx 6y ago
Also, according to the 2020 Tech survey via Vox Media, who is highly critical of tech: 91% have a favorable view of Amazon 73% trust Amazon with their information 70% say Amazon has a positive effect on society 81% would be disappointed if Amazon disappeared https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21144680/verge-tech-survey-2020-trust-privacy-security-facebook-amazon-google-apple https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21144680/verge-tech-survey...
- ikt 6y ago
  More people trust Microsoft than Apple with their information? What is going on there?
  - Nasrudith 6y ago
    PR campaigns is my cynical guess both positive from Microsoft and negative from FUD slingers. Since Microsoft outright betrayed their customers in the past but Apple stood in the way of the "right to backdoor". I am no Apple fan but it is consistent with the larger corrupt pattern of "smear anyone big and not giving you what you want".
  - collyw 6y ago
    Why is that so hard to believe? Apple has a habit of price gouging for extras. You buy a Mac and you need to spend an extra 30 bucks for a dongle to something basic, like plug in an HDMI cable. That sort of thing can rub people up the wrong way.(That precise example may not be up to date but it was 10 years ago). Also didn't some celebs get their iCloud (or whatever their offering is) accounts hacked? I am not saying that I personally find them less reliable than MS, but I can see why less techie people might have a mistrust.
Allower 6y ago
If anything you are showing that trust is generally low, its still very much an issue, and most importantly is getting worse not better.
anyfoo 6y ago
How far lagging behind is that assessment, or how likely is it that perceived trust is just lagging behind? Anecdotical, it's wasn't long ago that I was deeply impressed by Amazon's customer service and quality. This has changed drastically, and today I go as far as only using Amazon if I basically have to. Thanks to recent developments (I'd say over the past few years), I now prefer either the manufacturer's website, or shops specialized on the relevant subject. I even get my consumer electronics from Best Buy. I might be a bit extreme there (or maybe just "further along", depending on how you look at it), but Amazon having gone downhill--from once being well-known for its customer facing qualities no less--is certainly not a new or hot take.
- RonanTheGrey 6y ago
  I agree with this. Reputation is a funny thing, we think it is quickly lost (and can be), but it can also be lost very very slowly as a slow erosion of time. I tend to think this slow way is alot harder to bounce back from. It took what, 3 generations? For Japanese-made cars to be seen as equal to or better than, American made cars, because for a long, long time the perception was that Japanese-made was crap (and it was). It took generations to overcome that point of view (because it took generations to form it). It looks to me like the same is happening to Amazon. Not many people fully trust Amazon anymore, but also don't distrust it enough to say "I don't trust it!" to a survey. More like "Well... kind of... ok sure... I trust them."
bb2018 6y ago
Last year I made 349 orders on Amazon and cannot think of a single time I got a counterfeit item or felt tricked by the reviews. I would really like to wonder of the people encountering frequent fake products on Amazon, what categories are you shopping in? Is it fashion items or something similar? My main Amazon purchases are household items/toiletries and then hobby electronic parts. I haven't had any issues with these - and beyond the review issue the Amazon pricing/delivery time/return policy is by far the best of any site I've dealt with.
- sam_goody 6y ago
  I've gotten fakes from Amazon, but it is not always obvious that you've got a fake. There was an article recently with pictures of the real and fake items, both from Amazon. You wouldn't know which was which even if they were side by side. But the fake will probably fall apart faster, may leak poison and is overall not what you thought to buy. And that is all aside from the issue of fake reviews, which are so prevalent as to be the nrm. So the product might be an original, but it is not what you thought you were getting in way of reliability or noise et al.
  - bb2018 6y ago
    I'd still like to know what category of product you and others are talking about. I'm not in denial - just legitimately curious.
    - sam_goody 6y ago
      A fake watch (Armstrong IIRC. Wasn't waterproof as it should have been, and - too late - realized the word "water resistant" was misspelled.) A fake wire sodder, which was pretty expensive and cost me in damage to the item I wanted to build. I turned to the manufacturer and complained, and they asked me to send images... it was a fake. We got Desitin with a very weird consistency and smell. I am convinced it is not real, and have been afraid to use it. An external disk drive, wich wasn't fake, but was also clearly not the brand it said on the box. I complained about that, and am still waiting for a resolution. Those are what I recall offhand, but mostly have been avoiding Amazon.
jonas21 6y ago
And the only brand more trusted is a government agency!
downerending 6y ago
I have noticed that they haven't hopped on the "cancel" train (led by Twitter, Facebook, and Google/YouTube). I'm not exactly an Amazon fanboy, but that in itself inspires a certain level of trust. (Bezos does own WaPo, though.)
- RonanTheGrey 6y ago
  Well. They don't have much to cancel really... I don't know if they would, if they could. No way to know that really. Just that they're really in a different business than the others.
kabacha 6y ago
Here's my anecdote: I moved to SEA lately and we have no amazon here. Instead we have Lazada and Shopee - two huge store fronts with great technology and huge marketing. I don't trust neither of them, I feel like returning 30% of my orders, sometimes my returns get denied for no reason. My last purchase was a lawn chair that was advertised with attachments, there was only one tiny 8point font note at the bottom that said translation something like "attachments are just attachments" which could vaguely be interpreted as attachments not included while all of the pictures and descriptions featured them. My return got denied. All of the reviews are fake on thse two storefronts too. There are often promotions of "leave 5 star review with at least 3 pictures to win an iPad!" which would be illegal in many countries. As much as I dislike Amazon, they are by far the most trustworthy general store front I've used.
WhyNotHugo 6y ago
One of my main reasons to go with Amazon, is how trustworthy their service is. Package lost? They send another one free. Package delayed too long? Get a refund (and keep the package when it arrives). Don't like the product? Return it for free. There's never any friction, even in the bad scenarios. Combined with the fact that they consistently have the lowest price, it's hard to argue in favour of other services.

by koboll 6y ago

tantalor 6y ago

Is this Simpon's paradox at work? Google is more trusted than Amazon in Gen-Z Adults, Millennials, and Gen-X, but overall Amazon beats Google. Google doesn't even make the top-25 of Boomers, but Amazon is #11. That's a little weird; does it explain the overall result?

three_seagrass 6y ago
People trust the brands they grow up with. For example, Boomers trust Betty Crocker, Heinze, and AAA, which do not even show up for younger generations.
- RonanTheGrey 6y ago
  I dunno, I'm a millennial and I grew up with all 3 of those featuring prominently in my childhood. Although, really only in my childhood..
jldugger 6y ago
I feellike there isn't enough dimensionality in the data for Simpson's paradox explain that.

freeopinion 6y ago

Trusted by less than 40% of people. "Most trusted" does not seem to be a high bar. In fact it doesn't even seem to mean "generally trusted." I would say that they are hurting for trust, right along with everyone else.

miglmj 6y ago
Something like consumer trust only makes sense if compared relatively to competitors, otherwise you're making a statement about the general public rather than about Amazon.

nano81 6y ago

The context of that quote is talking about the trust of merchants which sell products on Amazon, not the trust of consumers (which is what your link is). Consumers of course don't care if Amazon rips off merchants.

Miraste 6y ago
As long as consumers trust Amazon and don't trust the merchants, it doesn't matter. They have to use Amazon anyway. This is presented as a strategic problem for Amazon, but it isn't.

noizejoy 6y ago

“sucks less” does not mean “doesn’t suck” (under 40% trust) Also amusing: weather forecasting in the top 5.

Reedx 6y ago

Also, according to the 2020 Tech survey via Vox Media, who is highly critical of tech: 91% have a favorable view of Amazon 73% trust Amazon with their information 70% say Amazon has a positive effect on society 81% would be disappointed if Amazon disappeared https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21144680/verge-tech-survey-2020-trust-privacy-security-facebook-amazon-google-apple https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21144680/verge-tech-survey...

ikt 6y ago
More people trust Microsoft than Apple with their information? What is going on there?
- Nasrudith 6y ago
  PR campaigns is my cynical guess both positive from Microsoft and negative from FUD slingers. Since Microsoft outright betrayed their customers in the past but Apple stood in the way of the "right to backdoor". I am no Apple fan but it is consistent with the larger corrupt pattern of "smear anyone big and not giving you what you want".
- collyw 6y ago
  Why is that so hard to believe? Apple has a habit of price gouging for extras. You buy a Mac and you need to spend an extra 30 bucks for a dongle to something basic, like plug in an HDMI cable. That sort of thing can rub people up the wrong way.(That precise example may not be up to date but it was 10 years ago). Also didn't some celebs get their iCloud (or whatever their offering is) accounts hacked? I am not saying that I personally find them less reliable than MS, but I can see why less techie people might have a mistrust.

Allower 6y ago

If anything you are showing that trust is generally low, its still very much an issue, and most importantly is getting worse not better.

anyfoo 6y ago

How far lagging behind is that assessment, or how likely is it that perceived trust is just lagging behind? Anecdotical, it's wasn't long ago that I was deeply impressed by Amazon's customer service and quality. This has changed drastically, and today I go as far as only using Amazon if I basically have to. Thanks to recent developments (I'd say over the past few years), I now prefer either the manufacturer's website, or shops specialized on the relevant subject. I even get my consumer electronics from Best Buy. I might be a bit extreme there (or maybe just "further along", depending on how you look at it), but Amazon having gone downhill--from once being well-known for its customer facing qualities no less--is certainly not a new or hot take.

RonanTheGrey 6y ago
I agree with this. Reputation is a funny thing, we think it is quickly lost (and can be), but it can also be lost very very slowly as a slow erosion of time. I tend to think this slow way is alot harder to bounce back from. It took what, 3 generations? For Japanese-made cars to be seen as equal to or better than, American made cars, because for a long, long time the perception was that Japanese-made was crap (and it was). It took generations to overcome that point of view (because it took generations to form it). It looks to me like the same is happening to Amazon. Not many people fully trust Amazon anymore, but also don't distrust it enough to say "I don't trust it!" to a survey. More like "Well... kind of... ok sure... I trust them."

bb2018 6y ago

Last year I made 349 orders on Amazon and cannot think of a single time I got a counterfeit item or felt tricked by the reviews. I would really like to wonder of the people encountering frequent fake products on Amazon, what categories are you shopping in? Is it fashion items or something similar? My main Amazon purchases are household items/toiletries and then hobby electronic parts. I haven't had any issues with these - and beyond the review issue the Amazon pricing/delivery time/return policy is by far the best of any site I've dealt with.

sam_goody 6y ago
I've gotten fakes from Amazon, but it is not always obvious that you've got a fake. There was an article recently with pictures of the real and fake items, both from Amazon. You wouldn't know which was which even if they were side by side. But the fake will probably fall apart faster, may leak poison and is overall not what you thought to buy. And that is all aside from the issue of fake reviews, which are so prevalent as to be the nrm. So the product might be an original, but it is not what you thought you were getting in way of reliability or noise et al.
- bb2018 6y ago
  I'd still like to know what category of product you and others are talking about. I'm not in denial - just legitimately curious.
  - sam_goody 6y ago
    A fake watch (Armstrong IIRC. Wasn't waterproof as it should have been, and - too late - realized the word "water resistant" was misspelled.) A fake wire sodder, which was pretty expensive and cost me in damage to the item I wanted to build. I turned to the manufacturer and complained, and they asked me to send images... it was a fake. We got Desitin with a very weird consistency and smell. I am convinced it is not real, and have been afraid to use it. An external disk drive, wich wasn't fake, but was also clearly not the brand it said on the box. I complained about that, and am still waiting for a resolution. Those are what I recall offhand, but mostly have been avoiding Amazon.

jonas21 6y ago

And the only brand more trusted is a government agency!

downerending 6y ago

I have noticed that they haven't hopped on the "cancel" train (led by Twitter, Facebook, and Google/YouTube). I'm not exactly an Amazon fanboy, but that in itself inspires a certain level of trust. (Bezos does own WaPo, though.)

RonanTheGrey 6y ago
Well. They don't have much to cancel really... I don't know if they would, if they could. No way to know that really. Just that they're really in a different business than the others.

kabacha 6y ago

Here's my anecdote: I moved to SEA lately and we have no amazon here. Instead we have Lazada and Shopee - two huge store fronts with great technology and huge marketing. I don't trust neither of them, I feel like returning 30% of my orders, sometimes my returns get denied for no reason. My last purchase was a lawn chair that was advertised with attachments, there was only one tiny 8point font note at the bottom that said translation something like "attachments are just attachments" which could vaguely be interpreted as attachments not included while all of the pictures and descriptions featured them. My return got denied. All of the reviews are fake on thse two storefronts too. There are often promotions of "leave 5 star review with at least 3 pictures to win an iPad!" which would be illegal in many countries. As much as I dislike Amazon, they are by far the most trustworthy general store front I've used.

WhyNotHugo 6y ago

One of my main reasons to go with Amazon, is how trustworthy their service is. Package lost? They send another one free. Package delayed too long? Get a refund (and keep the package when it arrives). Don't like the product? Return it for free. There's never any friction, even in the bad scenarios. Combined with the fact that they consistently have the lowest price, it's hard to argue in favour of other services.