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Personally I dislike var/auto in languages because I like having types explicitly written. But in case of languages like Java or Kotlin you can move the cursor

Personally I dislike var/auto in languages because I like having types explicitly written. But in case of languages like Java or Kotlin you can move the cursor over the variable name and you will see the type, also you can right-click and select "replace with explicit type" and it will work. In D, IDEs struggle with templates and can rarely index templated code (no wonder, because most of the code doesn't exist until build time). It's 2020. Why couldn't things work like this, where one can open a window for a concrete type using templates, and it shows the code?

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
A well designed language should be usable from a text editor. Even in 2020.
- qqssccfftt 6y ago
  A good dev uses an IDE. In 2020.
  - snazz 6y ago
    This is a really tired argument that we don't need to get into right now. Different things appeal to different people.
    - qqssccfftt 6y ago
      And text editor users are wrong.
  - entropicdrifter 6y ago
    Two things can be true. You shouldn't need an IDE to grok the code.
  - petee 6y ago
    A good dev shouldn't require crutches
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      Interactivity is not a crutch.
      - petee 6y ago
        Interactivity is a base attribute of an ide, and not the first reason people use it; the context here is that using an ide doesn't define a good programmer. So being able to clicky click is what makes good programmers to you?
        Dylan16807 6y ago
        They said that good devs use IDEs, not that IDE use makes you a good dev. Those are very different statements.
        petee 6y ago
        They said "A" good dev uses an ide, and a snappy 'in 2020' retort. It's plainly clear their intention is to imply only good devs use ide's in the modern era.
        Dylan16807 6y ago
        No, that's not how simple if statements work. I don't know what else I can say. If I say "A good CPU has more than two cores in 2020." then I'm just saying it's a requirement, not sufficient all by itself. I'm not calling a twelve-year-old phenom X3 a good CPU. The "in 2020" is just to emphasize that anyone failing this standard is falling behind the times.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
- harikb 6y ago
  I agree. I will paraphrase this as - a well designed language should be usable, at minimum, from a pure text editor, and should not put unreasonable burden on an IDE.
  - shrimpx 6y ago
    The cynic in me wants to say that such a language doesn’t lend itself to static analysis. As soon as you can do great things with static analysis you can build those features into an IDE, therefore causing the “pure text editor” to feel crippled giving rise to the idea that this language is “unusable from a pure text editor”.
skocznymroczny 6y ago
Templates don't exist until compile time, until you build the code, the IDE plugin doesn't have the full data on what types exactly are there. Java/C# generics are more limited in functionality, but it's a tradeoff in exchange for better ahead of time knowledge of types.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Visual Studio can do that, you just provide an example type and the IDE shows what the result would be. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/cppblog/template-intellisense/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/cppblog/template-intellisense... Now try that on vim.

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago

A well designed language should be usable from a text editor. Even in 2020.

qqssccfftt 6y ago
A good dev uses an IDE. In 2020.
- snazz 6y ago
  This is a really tired argument that we don't need to get into right now. Different things appeal to different people.
  - qqssccfftt 6y ago
    And text editor users are wrong.
- entropicdrifter 6y ago
  Two things can be true. You shouldn't need an IDE to grok the code.
- petee 6y ago
  A good dev shouldn't require crutches
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    Interactivity is not a crutch.
    - petee 6y ago
      Interactivity is a base attribute of an ide, and not the first reason people use it; the context here is that using an ide doesn't define a good programmer. So being able to clicky click is what makes good programmers to you?
      - Dylan16807 6y ago
        They said that good devs use IDEs, not that IDE use makes you a good dev. Those are very different statements.
        petee 6y ago
        They said "A" good dev uses an ide, and a snappy 'in 2020' retort. It's plainly clear their intention is to imply only good devs use ide's in the modern era.
        Dylan16807 6y ago
        No, that's not how simple if statements work. I don't know what else I can say. If I say "A good CPU has more than two cores in 2020." then I'm just saying it's a requirement, not sufficient all by itself. I'm not calling a twelve-year-old phenom X3 a good CPU. The "in 2020" is just to emphasize that anyone failing this standard is falling behind the times.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
harikb 6y ago
I agree. I will paraphrase this as - a well designed language should be usable, at minimum, from a pure text editor, and should not put unreasonable burden on an IDE.
- shrimpx 6y ago
  The cynic in me wants to say that such a language doesn’t lend itself to static analysis. As soon as you can do great things with static analysis you can build those features into an IDE, therefore causing the “pure text editor” to feel crippled giving rise to the idea that this language is “unusable from a pure text editor”.

skocznymroczny 6y ago

Templates don't exist until compile time, until you build the code, the IDE plugin doesn't have the full data on what types exactly are there. Java/C# generics are more limited in functionality, but it's a tradeoff in exchange for better ahead of time knowledge of types.

pjmlp 6y ago
Visual Studio can do that, you just provide an example type and the IDE shows what the result would be. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/cppblog/template-intellisense/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/cppblog/template-intellisense... Now try that on vim.